Banned antifouling paint in the US

A friend here in the Eastern Caribbean is returning his boat to the US for sale. He has been told that if he enters US waters with a banned antifouling paint (Seahawk 44 I think) that he will have to remove it.

I understand that the banned antifouling paints cannot be sold (or applied?) in the US, but I have never heard that the paint must be removed from the bottom of a boat that has come into the US from outside of the US.

Does anyone have information on the issue as to whether this paint must be removed?

In this specific case the boat is not a US flagged vessel.

They have paint police now !

and ..... is it not illegal to sell a non-US boat in US waters ?

boatpoker said:

and ..... is it not illegal to sell a non-US boat in US waters ?

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I believe one can sell a non-US flagged vessel in the US. Very frequently done by Canadians who buy boats in the US register them in Canada but pay neither the HST (Canadian Sales Tax) or the Canadian import duty. When it comes time to sell they frequently sell the boat in the US without ever paying these two Canadian taxes.

I have notice many times on boat sales websites and bot might have a comment such as "Not for sale in the USA." Someone once explained this to me but I've forgotten the reason.


As for the bottom paint, it may or may not be illegal in the USA, but I don't think anyone checks things like the chemical content of bottom paint. Of course, we don't know what the future might bring in the wackier states on the west coast. I believe one has already banned copper bottom paint starting at some future date.

I'd be real interested who told him this. Was it any sort of credible source? Personally I would just ignore it. Who's going to check?

As for the sale issue, I believe it's all about whether the US Import Duty has been paid on the boat. If it is duty paid, then it can be sold in the US to US citizens (a US transaction). If duty has not been paid, then you can't sell it here to US citizens (only non-US transactions allowed).

All of the above is either a money grab, or a power grab....

Too much regulation and too much paperwork.

Canadians can only avoid the taxes if the boat is not imported into Canada and can only avoid the import duty if its Canadian or US manufacture.

twistedtree said:

I'd be real interested who told him this. Was it any sort of credible source? Personally I would just ignore it. Who's going to check?

As for the sale issue, I believe it's all about whether the US Import Duty has been paid on the boat. If it is duty paid, then it can be sold in the US to US citizens (a US transaction). If duty has not been paid, then you can't sell it here to US citizens (only non-US transactions allowed).

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This is my understanding.

Interesting side comment. Friends of mine here in St. Lucia are selling a UK registered boat, bought in the US and US duty paid. The closing to another UK couple cannot take place in St. Lucia without paying a 22% duty on the boat to St. Lucia. Thus it is off to Martinique to close the sale.

I have never heard about the paint issue.
Bay Pelican says the boat is not US flagged but he does not say where it was built. If it is US built then a Customs Entry for "US built returned goods" must be filed with customs and there is no duty. If it was built in a few countries that have duty agreements like Canada (NAFTA) or Turkey, then no duty is due. If it was built in Taiwan, China, Europe or most other countries than a 1.5% duty needs to be paid to sell in the US. The 1.5% would be on 75% of the asking price. There is more to this of course, a customs broker that knows boats should be used. 1.5% of the asking price is very low compared to most countries and the penalty for non-compliance could be the value of the boat.

It is banned in the State of Washington. Not the whole U.S. I think California will also be adopting the same rules.


Washington state phases out copper-based bottom paint: what the legislation means for you and what the alternatives are | Clean Boating Foundation

yachtbrokerguy said:

I have never heard about the paint issue.
Bay Pelican says the boat is not US flagged but he does not say where it was built. If it is US built then a Customs Entry for "US built returned goods" must be filed with customs and there is no duty. If it was built in a few countries that have duty agreements like Canada (NAFTA) or Turkey, then no duty is due. If it was built in Taiwan, China, Europe or most other countries than a 1.5% duty needs to be paid to sell in the US. The 1.5% would be on 75% of the asking price. There is more to this of course, a customs broker that knows boats should be used. 1.5% of the asking price is very low compared to most countries and the penalty for non-compliance could be the value of the boat.

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Thanks, the US duty was a side issue and I did not originally explain that the US duty on this boat has already been paid and the prior owner was a US citizen and the boat was US flagged.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

It is banned in the State of Washington. Not the whole U.S. I think California will also be adopting the same rules.


Washington state phases out copper-based bottom paint: what the legislation means for you and what the alternatives are | Clean Boating Foundation

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As I read it, that law wouldn't prevent what the OP wants to do. The law prevents new boat sales with high copper paint, and it prevents sale of high copper paints. It doesn't outlaw what's on your boat today, nor prevent anyone from bringing such a boat into WA.

Bay Pelican said:

A friend here in the Eastern Caribbean is returning his boat to the US for sale. He has been told that if he enters US waters with a banned antifouling paint (Seahawk 44 I think) that he will have to remove it.

.

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Sounds like fear mongering to me. I've never heard of an issue and I can't imagine with all the imported boats in South Florida that, if this was an issue, I wouldn't have heard and wouldn't be able to even google and find any issues.

twistedtree said:

As I read it, that law wouldn't prevent what the OP wants to do. The law prevents new boat sales with high copper paint, and it prevents sale of high copper paints. It doesn't outlaw what's on your boat today, nor prevent anyone from bringing such a boat into WA.

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It also states that you will be prevented on selling a used boat if the bottom has cooper bottom paint...

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

It also states that you will be prevented on selling a used boat if the bottom has cooper bottom paint...

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If that's the case, what a new business for boat yards to strip off bottom paint that contains copper. Think about the boats that have been using Trinidad SR or comperable copper containing paints for the last 20 years.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

It also states that you will be prevented on selling a used boat if the bottom has cooper bottom paint...

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I'm not seeing that, either in the article or in the actual Bill. I only see two provisions.

1) Can't sell a NEW recreational boat with the offending paint.

2) Can't sell the offending paint itself.

Both have phase in dates.

twistedtree said:

I'm not seeing that, either in the article or in the actual Bill. I only see two provisions.

1) Can't sell a NEW recreational boat with the offending paint.

2) Can't sell the offending paint itself.

Both have phase in dates.

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That's the way I read it as well. What are they going to do, hire divers to scrape all the boats in marinas to test for copper bottom paint?

As for the phase in dates, that's the way elected officials work with unpopular legislation. By the time the law goes into effect, the voters have forgotten who voted for it.

Seevee said:

Too much regulation and too much paperwork.

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And not just restricted to boats!!!!!!!!

Seevee said:

.........Too much regulation and too much paperwork.

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There's a hope that this will change over the next eight years, at least at the federal level.

It must have been in an earlier bill I saw that stated by 2020 no boat could be sold, new or used with copper paint.

Who and how would anyone know what bottom paint you had?

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

It must have been in an earlier bill I saw that stated by 2020 no boat could be sold, new or used with copper paint.

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First, are they going to require a paint inspection before a boat is sold? Who does it and who pays for it?

Second, and more important, how are they planning on restricting the use of a boat with copper bottom paint? If you and your boat are from another state and visiting WA, will they have patrol boats waiting for you with divers on board? What happens when each of the 50 states passes it's own conflicting laws?

Again, too much regulation. Because boats normally move from state to state, this should be controlled by Federal law, not by the individual states.

My guess new regs will follow old.

In many states you have to sign a lead based paint document for house sales....

Whether it is enforced at the time of sales no big deal maybe....

But many laws like this have no statute of limitations...or they follow back to the original sin...

So you could be on the hook for as long as that boat might be inspected down the road.

psneeld said:

My guess new regs will follow old.

In many states you have to sign a lead based paint document for house sales....

Whether it is enforced at the time of sales no big deal maybe....

But many laws like this have no statute of limitations...or they follow back to the original sin...

So you could be on the hook for as long as that boat might be inspected down the road.

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That would be my guess on how it would be enforced. The real problem is the new owner could always "discover" the copper when he felt like enforcing the warranty/representation against the seller.

Should be good as long as the top layer is no copper? Or are we supposed to pay to blast all copper paint off the bottom? It never ends! Not surprised that WA is first to do this. The whole state is run by loons now.

Bay Pelican said:

I believe one can sell a non-US flagged vessel in the US. Very frequently done by Canadians who buy boats in the US register them in Canada but pay neither the HST (Canadian Sales Tax) or the Canadian import duty. When it comes time to sell they frequently sell the boat in the US without ever paying these two Canadian taxes.

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Sorry, thought I was on Cruisers Forum

Gee weez. I don't want the paint police looking at my bottom!:lol:

Bay Pelican said:

I believe one can sell a non-US flagged vessel in the US. Very frequently done by Canadians who buy boats in the US register them in Canada but pay neither the HST (Canadian Sales Tax) or the Canadian import duty. When it comes time to sell they frequently sell the boat in the US without ever paying these two Canadian taxes.

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Bay Pelican:

This is so much drivel. First, in order to register a boat in Canada, you have to prove that the Canadian taxes have been paid. Before you get to the sales taxes, the Duty, if any has to be paid. When it comes time to sell, the new purchaser, has the same responsibilities, so if he/she is taking the boat out of Canada, then no new Canadian taxes apply, but those of the new home will have to be paid.

Second, no, this should be first!: you assume that Canadians are scofflaws. I beg to differ.

Third, you have it backwards. If I bring a non-US flagged boat to the US and sell it there, I, or the purchaser, has to go through the importation process, to make it into a US flagged vessel, paying all of the applicable duty and taxes. Never get the idea that the tax man will let you bring it in without doing so.

78puget-trawler said:

Should be good as long as the top layer is no copper? Or are we supposed to pay to blast all copper paint off the bottom? It never ends! Not surprised that WA is first to do this. The whole state is run by loons now.

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Aye Comrade! Unfortunately the entire state gets sucked into the eddy of the political whims of the Peoples Republic of King County.

There was a great episode of Family Guy where everyone got all worked up about a news report of something that could have happened, but didn't actually. It was very funny, I guess because it spoke the ironic truth.