New to me 50, Steel full displacement, engine questions

Greetings,
When using POR15, place a couple layers of cling wrap or saran wrap over the top before you snug down the lid. You'll never have a problem re-opening the can.

Mr. NW. Yes, POR15 suggests you leave a light layer of rust on the surface to aid in bonding. I've never had a problem either leaving the skim of rust or applying to clean metal. The trick is to get a continuous coat so no moisture can wick through any voids in the paint layer and reach the substrate.

Rustoleum is very popular due to low price and aggressive marketing. It is not a bad coating but is not comparable to POR15 in toughness.

I was at a friends place years ago and he had used a piece of 1/2" re-bar to stir his can of POR. He gave me the re-bar and his 5lb sledge and dared me to chip the finish. No go. Half a dozen good whacks on his anvil with the sledge made no mark or impression.

No affiliation with the POR company, just a satisfied customer...

That POR15 sounds good, but it is interior only? We're do you get it.
Obie
What I'd good for the exterior?

Greetings,
Mr. O. Stop Rust with POR-15 - We Know What Permanent Means! Interior only? You'll have to read the information on the website. The stuff I've used has no UV protection and must be overcoated AND there is a specific recommended procedure for that on the website. The website is fairly extensive so there may be a product you can use on the exterior. Give them a call. They stress not getting it on your skin. Believe them. It IS permanent.

POR 15 is indeed amazing stuff, 'though a bit pricey in my part of the world. (But what do we use on our boats that is not pricey?!)
Another product you might want to try is Devoe Pre-Prime 167.
This stuff is a 100% solids epoxy product, no shrinkage, and very thin - looks like water. It goes on very easy, converts and bonds the rust, and then you apply your choice of epoxy formulation on top. ( my current favourite is Devoe/Ameron Bar Rust 235.)
The main advantage I find with the PrePrime 167 is that it is "creepy"!
It is very thin, and it will literally creep uphill, getting into cracks and crevices that your brush can't reach. It will hit rust you can't even see. It creeps under gussets and frames and voids, and it displaces any water as it goes. Very useful for those situations where your arm is only just so long!
Not sure how compatible it is with POR 15 - that would be a question to ask the manufacturer.

POR-15 is good material for steel but I don't know of anyone using it on a steel hull. They might - I just haven't seen it in the recreational world.

The problem with getting advice for a steel boat is that a lot of people have fixed up a steel chair or railing somewhere and now think they're experts with steel boats. Don't get advice from these experts. Find people who have really used products over a long period of time on their own boat's hull. For what it's worth, I'm not in that class myself yet as I've only been learning about this all for about 8 months with our steel boat. I've gotten some dumb advice from people who painted a trailer once - turns out to be all wrong for a boat.

SlowGypsy - as you probably know Devoe and Ameron no longer exist as brands - they're all part of PPG now - I assume that's true in Canada too. For the exterior, I've pretty much standardized on AMERCOAT 235 which is wonderful stuff. And from everything I've learned about, for exterior steel, the primer is the most important step.

I had a PPG tech rep out to our boat 2 weeks ago and I learned a lot from him. We're currently using AMERCOAT 229T for our exterior topcoat but might change that to something harder and a little easier to obtain. I'd like to find some paint schedules from tug yards too in warmer climates with high sun exposure to see what they use.

I think that for interior, just staying on top of it and using something that is less toxic is the critical part. It should be inexpensive and easy-to-apply too. I'm liking Rustoleum products for that now. A different product like POR-15 might be great but if you liveaboard full-time, you really have to consider the environmental factors a bit more for the inside.

Hi Jeffrey: yes, the Ameron / Devoe story is a little convoluted!
Devoe has been around since 1754, and does still exist as a brand within PPG.
Both Devoe and International now come under the umbrella of the global brand Akzo-Nobel, but I still can buy my favourite Devoe branded products here in Ontario.
When Ameron and Devoe parted company, they both kept producing some of the same epoxies. So, Amercoat 235 is actually Devoe BarRust 235, both still available, as is Devoe Pre-Prime 167. You really should try some 167! It can be used under Rustoleum as well as epoxy.
I agree with your comments about using less toxic products in the interior!
I am doing my engine room with epoxy, and my lungs are not enjoying it, even with respirator! A full enclosure suit with supplied air would be better!

To the OP, I would not use Rustoleum or Tremclad on an exterior boat surface, 'though I must confess to having used them on lawn chairs in the past. ?
I did my entire deck and cabin trunks, rust and all, with Pr-Prime and BarRust235 over fifteen years ago, and they are still holding up beautifully.
I have been (mostly successfully!) chasing boat rust for over thirty years now.
Everybody has their favourite brand, but in my opinion, they are all pretty good, so long as you follow directions.

By the way, I am currently looking at trawlers, and the more I research, and the more I see the issues with fibreglass, the more I love my old steel boat!

Jeffrey S said:

And from everything I've learned about, for exterior steel, the primer is the most important step..

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This, of course, is true for painting any surface, interior or exterior. 90% or more of a successful paint or varnish job is in the preparation.
Devoe 235 is a surface-tolerant product that can be applied directly to bare steel, or rusted steel, but I still think a good primer is a good idea.

With RedHead, you certainly have a very nice reason to be interested in becoming an expert in the application of protective coatings for steel!

SlowGypsy - what do you use for an exterior topcoat? I'm struggling with that now. I'd love to make a connection with you outside here too - us steel boat owners need to stick together. There should be a group just for steel boats - I'll likely make one in ActiveCaptain if there's no other place to discuss things like this.

Don't want to get in trouble for promoting another site here, but if you look up the Metal Boat Society you may find what you're looking for. Seems to be way more sailboat oriented, but still people with the same issues.

By the way, I've been chasing paint nirvana on my 1961 steel boat for a long time now, and DeVoe 235 seems to be religion pretty universally as a primer. For various reasons I've been using Sherwin Williams industrial / marine products most recently and I'm guessing they're pretty equivalent. Been very happy with them. And as much of a pain as it is, have to recommend going with a 2-part urethane outside. No comparison to single part paints that I've seen.

For topcoat that is...

chriscritchett said:

- have to recommend going with a 2-part urethane outside. No comparison to single part paints that I've seen.

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I have to agree, 100%!

Jeffrey S: I have used Awlgrip for years, since that is what came with the boat. Absolutely wonderful for toughness and gloss retention, but not good when it comes time to touch up damaged areas. OK on a "workboat" like mine, but if you try to maintain a yachty finish, it is labour and $ intensive. (It can't be polished or buffed - making a repair blend in is a bit difficult)

Recently I have been using another two-part urethane topcoat, Devthane 379.
Very impressed so far, beautiful high gloss and apparent durability.

If air quality and the environment are a concern, they have a couple of water-borne acrylic products that look very promising.
Devcryl 1448 may be applied directly to bare steel and aluminium.
Devcryl 1449 requires a primer.

Obie:
My apologies for thread drift!
You started a very interesting thread about your very beautiful "new" vessel, and I have enjoyed following the various posts. I want to know more about YOUR boat, not lots of boring chatter about how some old fart (that would be me!) paints his boat!
So, I am suggesting future opinions on paint from me will be either in a PM, or in another paint dedicated thread.
Now ............. Howz about some more photos of your new mistress?

Sweet!

I agree - more pictures of the new steel boat. Sorry for the discussion of paint for other boats...

You guys are awesome.
I just got to my computer for the first time after getting home. Today was a long day of cleaning. Worked from 6 am till 6 pm. Tomarow I will get a few more photos up.
I have thuroly enjoyed reading all the post about paint, it is a very important topic for all of us. So don't feel bad. It's now on this thread and I can review it often and easily.
Obie

Ok I have a serious question to put out there.
Part of my electrical is 36 volt. Most D.C. Panels are rated for 12, or 24 volt D.C. Or ac.
I am guessing here but I think the same breakers work perfect for 36 volt also? I wish they were rated in watts instead of voltage and amps. Would a person even (me) want to adjust for the higher voltage? 12 volts at 10 amps is 120 watts, so 10 amps at 36 volts would be 360 watts. So should the breaker be a 30 amp breaker. For 10 amps at 36 volts?
This one is not for the novices.
Obie

Breakers are current limiting devices, so operate the same at 12, 24 or 36vdc. Regardless of the voltage, amps are amps. But as you go up in voltage, there may be limits to which the breaker contacts are designed to handle. Higher the voltage, the more likely it is for contacts to arc on opening. Check the specs of the breakers you are using.

A few more pic as from today

DC breakers are far more robust than AC breakers .

If the installed units show DC on the info cast in , you are home free.

Is that a pneumatic transmission and throttle control I see in the pilothouse?

Ted

Hey ted yes it is. I don't know anything about it, are they junk? Should I chuck it and go cable? This is my first time with this stuff and I have not got air rusher to it yet.
Obie

Pneumatic is great. Lots of commercial boats use them

Closer pic any advice would be great

If you are using the original transmission, engine, etc., I would hook it up, give it a try, and see how you like it. The one I used worked fine (from memory of 35 years ago). My one recollection was that they shift slower than cable as you empty one chamber and pressurize another. The boat (110') had quite long lines which I believe added to the delay. If everything works, play with it. Not sure I would spend much money on it to restore it. The air compressor, cylinders, and controls are just one more system to maintain.

Ted

Not sure if you got the dd's running yet but I bought a co2 fire extinguisher and kept it handy in case my dampers failed. Also good to have around all the time working on the boat

Obie said:

Hey ted yes it is. I don't know anything about it, are they junk? Should I chuck it and go cable? This is my first time with this stuff and I have not got air rusher to it yet.
Obie

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If you have a pneumatic gear control I'll bet you have a manual (not hydraulic) gear.. if so the alternative to pneumatic is not cable for the gear, it's a skookum lever system, takes quite a bit of force! Cable will work fine for the throttle, but keep the pneumatic F-N-R if you have a manual gear!
The old Gray Marine supplied manual gear on the 6-71 was good, will last forever.

Island Cessna said:

If you have a pneumatic gear control I'll bet you have a manual (not hydraulic) gear.. if so the alternative to pneumatic is not cable for the gear, it's a skookum lever system, takes quite a bit of force! Cable will work fine for the throttle, but keep the pneumatic F-N-R if you have a manual gear!
The old Gray Marine supplied manual gear on the 6-71 was good, will last forever.

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The Gray Marine I had in one of my charter boats had a Twin Disc manual transmission. The engine was directly under the pilothouse so a large lever came up through the floor. You pushed it to stern to go forward and pushed it toward the bow in go backward. Only transmission I ever disassembled. Had to replace the throw out bearing and clutch plates.

Ted

I think it was Marco in Seattle that used to make an electric push button
control for those manual transmissions. The shift was FAST.

Ted

Ted said:

I think it was Marco in Seattle that used to make an electric push button
control for those manual transmissions. The shift was FAST.

Ted

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I believe it was Bill Naud that built the systems for the Marco boats.......ancient history.