Wolverine heater

Rather than hijack a thread I thought I would start another.

I have wanted to do an oil pan heater for a while and now seems like a good time. Tony Athens discusses them well at sbmar.com.

I checked the pan on my Cummins QSB 5.9L 380hp. It was built in 2008 and placed in service in 2010.

The bottom of the oil pan has indented ribs that run longitudinally along the shallow portion of the oil pan. The deep portion of the pan has the oil drain line in it. I'd like to figure out how to install this. Here are some photos. It was very hard to try and get a photo since there is only a few inches clearance to get the camera there.


Aft, port side of the oil pan.


Forward side of the starboard side of the oil pan.


Aft, starboard side of the oil pan.


Bottom of the shallow section of the oil pan on the forward 2/3's


Bottom of the pan looking aft towards the deep portion of the pan.

David, I have a Canadian Polar pad on mine. Same idea as the Wolverine. It is 250w and about the size of an index card or cellphone. They are made out of silicone and are quite compliant to attach to larger radius bends. They self-adhese, but the trick is getting it on. I actually did use an index card to test to see if I can get it on, and smooth it out. This would have been a lot easier to do had I thought of it when I repowered. You appear to have plenty of room, but your forearm will have a few scratches when you are done.

I should add that the reason I went for a Canadian Polar is because it is CSA certified. My insurance policy states that all heaters on board need to be ULc or CSA certified. Just something to keep in mind when purchasing. All of the quality units will be UL approved.

Thanks Mike. It looks like I have three different size options. Wolverine's 6.75" x 2.75" and their 3.5" x 4.5", and the 3.5" x 5.125" by Canadian Polar.

I tried your idea of checking size with some pieces of paper.


Those are on the starboard side of the oil pan, but right up near the top.

That is hard to interpret but is on the transition from the shallow to deep portion.

Wolverine says that the surface needs to be absolutely smooth and I take that to mean flat. Not sure how much curve these things will accept let along my ability to stick it on the bottom in exactly the right position.

Tony Athens made a great suggestion, consider two 125w pads. It would be a little more expensive but I think I could put it relatively low on the deep part of the pan on either side.

Dave,
Both on one side would promote circulation.

Nomad Willy said:

Dave,
Both on one side would promote circulation.

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I see what you are saying. The issue is being able to fit both of then n the same side.

Proheat (who claims to have invented them) makes a two 125w on one plug pad. They actually take quite a bit of bend. If you Google photos of oil pan heater you can see how they conform. I learned that a Subaru oil pan looks like a pumpkin.

Northern Spy said:

Proheat (who claims to have invented them) makes a two 125w on one plug pad. They actually take quite a bit of bend. If you Google photos of oil pan heater you can see how they conform. I learned that a Subaru oil pan looks like a pumpkin.

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Thanks. I will do some looking.

Edit: I just looked at that Proheat dual pad heater. If I am correct, it would fit great transversely on the bottom of my pan on fore of the oil drain line. It would be challenging to access the bottom of the pan but a smaller pad would be easier to position than a larger one.

One problem is that I can't see the bottom of the pad. I am thinking about finding a mirror that I can set on the bottom and view it that way.

Dave, consider buying a borescope. At work we had one made by Snap On tools that was really nice. They range from about $150 to several thousand, depending on quality and how much you want to spend. I can see that one would be very handy on a boat to get to those places where your head just won't fit.

porman said:

Dave, consider buying a borescope. At work we had one made by Snap On tools that was really nice. They range from about $150 to several thousand, depending on quality and how much you want to spend. I can see that one would be very handy on a boat to get to those places where your head just won't fit.

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I actually have one. The problem is that for something like this I need to be able to have both hands free when applying the pad.

Ref your paper "template" photos, are you thinking to fit the heaters where the template is? Surely they need to be on the bottom or very low on the sides. They should be "covered" by the oil in the sump.

Dave. I think for the climate that you live in, you could stick the pads on the side of block where water jacket is and achieve the same thing. Today's multi grade oils flow just fine at the temps we see. I am not saying keeping the oil nice and toasty would not be better, but necessary in the Puget Sound area, I would say no.

Oil heater pads are low wattage and will not heat up a water jacket effectively. Of course the heat will be transferred but it will be lost just as quickly by radiation

My point is they will not work if mounted above the oil level

stone beach said:

Ref your paper "template" photos, are you thinking to fit the heaters where the template is? Surely they need to be on the bottom or very low on the sides. They should be "covered" by the oil in the sump.

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Yup I agree. I have decided to go with the Proheat double 125w pads for that reason. The small and narrow pads will fit fore and aft of the oil drain line on the deep portion of the oil pan. (thanks for Northern Spy for the idea) The challenge will be to get them on the pan given the working position.

Rebel112r said:

Dave. I think for the climate that you live in, you could stick the pads on the side of block where water jacket is and achieve the same thing. Today's multi grade oils flow just fine at the temps we see. I am not saying keeping the oil nice and toasty would not be better, but necessary in the Puget Sound area, I would say no.

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My concern isn't only for the cold start issue but for just keeping condensation and therefore rust from the engine and ER. It should provide enough heat to avoid any concern about freezing of the water system during the colder days. It will mean paying for the electricity to power 250w full time, but that isn't too bad.

I am considering this option.

1) Do you have to remove the paint from the surface before application? [edit ok. I see that the answer is yes.]

2) How effective is the heat transfer to the rest of the engine? Could there be issues with different parts of the engine being at different temperatures and possible expansion of metal surfaces? Or am I over analyzing this?

Jim

JDCAVE said:

2) How effective is the heat transfer to the rest of the engine? Could there be issues with different parts of the engine being at different temperatures and possible expansion of metal surfaces? Or am I over analyzing this?

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I don't know yet. From what I have read, most from Tony, is it does do a good job of transferring the heat to the rest of the engine. There will be a temperature gradient but likely less than what you have on the different parts of a diesel engine under way. I also would not be concern about differential expansion etc... Keep in mind that we are only talking about 250w total. I am expecting that it would take a couple days for the engine to fully come to temperature with the heater in place.

But, ask folks who have used them. Northern Spy has used them but I am not sure if it was on his boat or on his land vehicles. Keep in mind that the most common application is for land vehicles in cold climates.

JDCAVE said:

I am considering this option.

1) Do you have to remove the paint from the surface before application? [edit ok. I see that the answer is yes.]

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I stuck the Wolverine on the bottom of the engine without removing all the paint, just scuffing up the surface with steel wool and cleaning thoroughly with dish soap to remove any oil. It's been on there for a year without any hint of peeling off.

Good luck, I had 300W magnetic ones on my Cat 3208s that didn't do anything.

I never saw any warming anywhere but within inches of the pad.

The factory mounted immersion heater is 1000W or more on my Ford diesel truck and it did the trick.

I guess 250W of power, properly adhered in the right spot will work, but if I were doing it, I would look to insulate the outer parts to make sure all the heat was going to work for me.

I would vote on the bottom for max transfer.

I would have to question why you are considering a pad heater when a block heater that goes in the engine water jacket is more efficient and much cheaper. Our previous boat had a Cummins 6BT with a factory installed block heater (which I never used). Automotive parts stores sell these things for about $30. You need to know just where on an engine to install one, but a Cummins dealer should be able to tell you.

In a previous life I flew a small plane up north, and it had a pad heater because it was an air cooled engine. But it was very expensive, and the oil pan had to be super clean or it wouldn't stick. All of our vehicles and machinery with liquid cooled engines had water jacket block heaters.

I have a 600w lower rad hose heater in my diesel Land Cruiser. Works great. Rarely use it because of the moderate climate where I live. Also have battery heater blankets on both batteries; it's 24v. The guy who prepped it was from Whitehorse.

On my boat, I tried a magnetic oil pan heater and it didn't work long. Don't remember the wattage.

I have a 250w Canadian Polar stick on pad heater on my boat engine. It is a 10.5l (2.8gal) pan. Might leave it on longer based on Tony Athens advice on the 6BTA thread. Although a 6BTA has about a liter more oil and considerably (twice?) more mass, so I'll see.

I also have a Caframo Pali heater in my ER, but I rarely use it.

I didn't remove all of paint either, if I recall correctly, just Brakleen.

Block heaters don't warm the oil in the pan. And a bit of a liability IMHO. If you ever had one leak or blow out on you, you would understand.

Rossland said:

I would have to question why you are considering a pad heater when a block heater that goes in the engine water jacket is more efficient and much cheaper. Our previous boat had a Cummins 6BT with a factory installed block heater (which I never used). Automotive parts stores sell these things for about $30. You need to know just where on an engine to install one, but a Cummins dealer should be able to tell you.

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I love this!

The pad heater I have coming cost around $80. A block heater would be $30. $50 savings. I think it is hilarious that we can own boats that in some cases cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars yet we worry about 50 bucks. I do the same all the time. I lament about spending a few bucks on little items yet am about to lay out 5 grand on a dinghy!

I will report back on how the install goes and what it does to the temp of the engine. The heater should arrive this week and I will try and do the install this weekend.

I wrote previously that I used a thermocube to cycle my heater on and off. I then edited that out, because I did for a month or two when I first installed it, then I realized I could cause what I was trying to prevent, and removed it. The whole idea of this heater (for me) is to keep the dew point temperature of the engine higher than the ambient air. This way there is no internal condensation.

So consider the use of a timer or a thermostat in this context.

I've a Wolverine Model 25 that I got from sbmar. Sanded off the paint before I glued it down. You can touch it when it's on but it's definitely hot. Top of the engine feels slightly warm to the touch. Big chunk of cast iron radiates heat into the compartment. Easy, passive way to keep engine and compartment warm.

dhays said:

I love this!

The pad heater I have coming cost around $80. A block heater would be $30. $50 savings. I think it is hilarious that we can own boats that in some cases cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars yet we worry about 50 bucks. I do the same all the time. I lament about spending a few bucks on little items yet am about to lay out 5 grand on a dinghy!

Click to expand...

"Aye laddie, look after the pence and the pounds will look after themselves."
(With no disrespect, this needs to be spoken with a Yorkshire, or a Scottish, accent).

Rossland said:

I would have to question why you are considering a pad heater when a block heater that goes in the engine water jacket is more efficient and much cheaper. Our previous boat had a Cummins 6BT with a factory installed block heater (which I never used). Automotive parts stores sell these things for about $30. You need to know just where on an engine to install one, but a Cummins dealer should be able to tell you....

Click to expand...

I believe these pads are $85, so not that different in the grand scheme of things. Plus, Tony Athens recommends them. Finally, While I think I could install a pad, I wouldn't trust my abilities at installing a block heater.

Jim

Northern Spy said:

I wrote previously that I used a thermocube to cycle my heater on and off. I then edited that out, because I did for a month or two when I first installed it, then I realized I could cause what I was trying to prevent, and removed it. The whole idea of this heater (for me) is to keep the dew point temperature of the engine higher than the ambient air. This way there is no internal condensation.

So consider the use of a timer or a thermostat in this context.

Click to expand...

I was wondering about your use of the thermocube. My thought is the same as yours, keep the engine above ambient at all times.

BruceK said:

"Aye laddie, look after the pence and the pounds will look after themselves."
(With no disrespect, this needs to be spoken with a Yorkshire, or a Scottish, accent).

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Much like "Penny wise, pound foolish"

Being a Yank, I tend to think in terms of..

"A penny saved is a penny earned."