Hard or Ablative Bottom Paint?

We spend 7 months in Florida and 5 months traveling up the east coast to the NE. Had two sailboats. One with ablative and one with Hard. The Hard lasted longer. 4 years.
Now we have a Tug.
What is the better bottom paint to use?

What speed will you cruise at? Ablative worked poorly for me at 7 knots. Have much better esults with the same paint on my charter boat at 15 knots.

Ted

There is no better, it is what works for you.

Unless you find a boat in very similar use, such as location and cruising speeds, it's a really a crap shoot what is best for you.

2 marinas just a couple hundred yards apart can have different fouling. Say one up a creel and the other on the ICW.

A knot can make a difference.

Manufacturers can make a difference.

I prefer Interlux ablative over Petit. I had 2 Petit ablative that didn't.

I had a friend 2 slips down using Seahawks ablative and never moved the boat and had similar results as my ablative that I only cruised 6 months. I am using Interlux Fiberglass Bottomkote NT. When I sat, I had similar results as him but the 6 months moving I was clean as a whistle. My sailing friends used hard paint and looked like mine when they hauled every year. Medium growth. So even then results are hard to interpret.

The only paint that I ever recommended above all others were the tin based ones...they REALLY worked till illegal for most of us in the US.

Agree with the "crap shoot" when dealing with bottom paint. Travel speed, frequency of use, temperature and salinity of water, seasonal hauling, bottom prep, all will have an affect on bottom paint.

My NT32 came from the factory with a single coat of Micron CSC. Bottom was not prepped properly, and paint started flaking and chipping off after first season. Feathering chipped areas and application of light coat of CSC each season (boat hauled for Winters in New England). Moored in a brackish cove, CSC was marginally effective, mostly with slime. While CSC is considered ablative, being solvent based, it will build up over the years. For the past 6 seasons, I've been using Pettit's waterbased Hydrocoat. It's easier to apply in our cold Springs, doesn't build up as much (more ablative), cheaper and more effective against slime. With 11 seasons, at some point, I may have to sandblast the hull. We power wash the hull when hauled in the Fall. Right now, I annually orbital sand with 80 grit, feather and prime any bare spots, and roll on a light coat of Hydrocoat. This year will be different since my new slip is in a freshwater river.

Most of our cruising is done at 7-8 knots.

O C Diver said:

What speed will you cruise at? Ablative worked poorly for me at 7 knots. Have much better esults with the same paint on my charter boat at 15 knots.

Ted

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7-8 knots

I am clueless on paints but... I like to use a diver to keep my bottom clean. Because of that, it is my understanding that hard paint will last longer. Also, in WA we can't scrub a boat with ablative paint.

Pgitug said:

Most of our cruising is done at 7-8 knots.

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I will be switching to hard paint in the spring. My boat gets scrubbed as needed by a diver and feel the hard will last significantly longer.

Ted

This is not really a crap shoot. Practical Sailor does extensive and rigorous testing of bottom paints (and a lot more). A subscription is worthwhile even if one is not a "sailor" as better than half of the content is related to paints and varnishes, electronics and other stuff that goes on powerboats.

In my experience (west coast of North America), ablative works best but hard lasts longer, particularly on fast (20+ knot) boats. I use ablative on my current boat and get 2 -3 years out of a paint job, though I rarely exceed 10 knots. In southern Cal / Mexico, a diver cleans the bottom every month.

SteveD said:

This is not really a crap shoot. Practical Sailor does extensive and rigorous testing of bottom paints (and a lot more). A subscription is worthwhile even if one is not a "sailor" as better than half of the content is related to paints and varnishes, electronics and other stuff that goes on powerboats.

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Do their tests involve 10 different boats in 10 different locations used 10 different ways and include all the available paints being scrubbed 10 different ways wirh 10 differerent intervals by divers?

Is so, I will give the a better benefit of the doubt.

And in my estimation.....it is still a crappreciate shoot.

I used to get the publication till I got more experience and was able to determine better sources of info...kinda like solely relying on consumer reports for stuff. Good when I was 20 to 30...not so much anymore, even without the internet.

Did lots of tests years ago, where I liked the abaltive, the problem was swimming from the boat, people getting on board and had touched the bottom etc. So switched to hard. Here in the Caribbean I use trinadad pro 87% copper. Normaly works well except if I leave the boat in a warm shallow bay for a few months ( tThe lagoon in St Martin ) for instance, and then suffer with lots of mini barnacles. On the whole I like the paint and get a good couple of seasons out of it.

Hard paint will build up and after 12-15 years chips..

The major paint manufacturers have paint selection guides on their websites. Answer a few questions and you get their recommendation. Of course you have to do this for each manufacturer.


Another resource is your diver. Divers see all the different paint types and can tell you what works best in your location.


As a general rule, most trawlers don't move fast enough and often enough to make an ablative paint effective.


On the other hand, some paints must stay wet so if you haul your boat for the winter (or summer), you have to rule these paints out.

Martin J said:

Did lots of tests years ago, where I liked the abaltive, the problem was swimming from the boat, people getting on board and had touched the bottom etc. So switched to hard. Here in the Caribbean I use trinadad pro 87% copper. Normaly works well except if I leave the boat in a warm shallow bay for a few months ( tThe lagoon in St Martin ) for instance, and then suffer with lots of mini barnacles. On the whole I like the paint and get a good couple of seasons out of it.

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I forgot that when we stayed at Fernandina Beach for three weeks I had a pot load of Barnacles on our newly painted hard paint. Maybe Ablative is the way to go.

We boat in freshwater only. Bottom paint is (almost) a mute point. No matter what you use, you're gonna get slimed. Only a scrubbing will keep you clean. Even the 40 plus kt boats grow a layer. I used to use Vc 17 hard Teflon. It was awesome to be able to coat a 37' sailboat hull in 30 minutes. But the cost for the stuff is more than I can take now. So with the trawler it will be the cheapest ablative I can find. We have to pull for the winter so I've found that the best way to go is to just touch up the spots that need it and hit the water. Ablatives keep the crud down till I can hop in and scrub once a month. Also on a sailboat, a slime coated bottom would drop boat speed by 1/2 a knot, sometimes even more. So there's quite a lot of drag with even just slime.

Pgitug said:

We spend 7 months in Florida and 5 months traveling up the east coast to the NE. Had two sailboats. One with ablative and one with Hard. The Hard lasted longer. 4 years.
Now we have a Tug.
What is the better bottom paint to use?

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Where do you cruise to in the NE? Our old cruising grounds were Long Island Sound out to Martha's Vineyard, if it weren't for the long winters and relatively short summers, it would be ideal.

Wondering what you've found is the best brand of paint to use down here. I've tried ablative before, but reading your findings on hard paint, I'm intrigued. We plan on keeping our Albin for about the next 10 or 12 years and while I don't want to plan too far into the future, that would mean that I'd only really have to paint the bottom two or three times, and I REALLY like the idea of that.

Jim

VJameslanza said:

Where do you cruise to in the NE? Our old cruising grounds were Long Island Sound out to Martha's Vineyard, if it weren't for the long winters and relatively short summers, it would be ideal.



Wondering what you've found is the best brand of paint to use down here. I've tried ablative before, but reading your findings on hard paint, I'm intrigued. We plan on keeping our Albin for about the next 10 or 12 years and while I don't want to plan too far into the future, that would mean that I'd only really have to paint the bottom two or three times, and I REALLY like the idea of that.



Jim

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We have been to MV and Newport. Maybe Maine this year.

SteveD said:

This is not really a crap shoot. Practical Sailor does extensive and rigorous testing of bottom paints (and a lot more). A subscription is worthwhile even if one is not a "sailor" as better than half of the content is related to paints and varnishes, electronics and other stuff that goes on powerboats.

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But aren't their tests of bottom paints on sailboats?

We're in Fort Lauderdale and use hard. We're in a very high growth area and find that we get good results with a hard paint and with monthly bottom cleaning. We also use Prop Speed.

BandB said:

We're in Fort Lauderdale and use hard. We're in a very high growth area and find that we get good results with a hard paint and with monthly bottom cleaning....

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I get the link between high fouling, monthly cleaning, and hard a/f. But:
If monthly cleaning is necessary,is the a/f is doing its job?
What happens if there is no monthly cleaning? Heavy fouling?
Is hard a/f really a diver scrubbable surface, which might inhibit some fouling?

BruceK said:

I get the link between high fouling, monthly cleaning, and hard a/f. But:
If monthly cleaning is necessary,is the a/f is doing its job?
What happens if there is no monthly cleaning? Heavy fouling?
Is hard a/f really a diver scrubbable surface, which might inhibit some fouling?

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Yes, in our area monthly cleaning is necessary. Now it's not hard scrubbing, more like wiping clean. By monthly cleaning, I mean by diver.

Yes, no bottom cleaning, lot's of growth and then it requires hard cleaning which then lessens it's life and the cycle continues. At our current frequency of bottom cleaning, the surface shows growth each time but it hasn't really firmly attached itself.

The good news is that we're getting over three years between bottom painting with the regular bottom cleaning.

We're in warm water with high growth levels. This does point out why everyone needs to decide based on where and what. When we have a boat in use elsewhere, we are often able to go longer periods between bottom cleaning.

Ablative here needs cleaning monthly but then needs repainting annually for most people.

BruceK said:

If monthly cleaning is necessary,is the a/f is doing its job?

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There is no anti fouling paint available in this country that will not require periodic cleaning in regions that experience moderate to high fouling. That is just the nature of the beast.

And contrary to what some believe, relatively frequent, gentle in-water hull cleanings will actually extend the life of your anti fouling paint (ablative or hard) as opposed to less frequent, more abrasive cleanings. Be sure the diver you hire knows what he is about. Not all hull cleaners are created equal.

fstbttms said:

There is no anti fouling paint available in this country that will not require periodic cleaning in regions that experience moderate to high fouling. That is just the nature of the beast.

And contrary to what some believe, relatively frequent, gentle in-water hull cleanings will actually extend the life of your anti fouling paint (ablative or hard) as opposed to less frequent, more abrasive cleanings. Be sure the diver you hire knows what he is about. Not all hull cleaners are created equal.

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I am glad to see you weigh in on this. I have always assumed that cleaning of ablative bottom paint would shorten its effective life. Maybe I was wrong? I do know that it is illegal to clean ablative paint in the water in Washington State. https://tinyurl.com/yacdw5h

dhays said:

I have always assumed that cleaning of ablative bottom paint would shorten its effective life. Maybe I was wrong?

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Ablative paints need to be cleaned every bit as much as hard paints do. Does it make sense to let those soft paints get foul and then have to clean them with abrasive media or is it smarter to clean them before they get really dirty so it can be done with something soft and non-abrasive?

dhays said:

I do know that it is illegal to clean ablative paint in the water in Washington State. https://tinyurl.com/yacdw5h

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Yeah, that was knee-jerk legislation based on absoutely no evidence. Ablative paints are not inherently more polluting than hard paints. And I notice that there is no provision to lift that restriction once copper-based paints have gone the way of the dodo in Washington, which will be the case within five years.

fstbttms said:

And contrary to what some believe, relatively frequent, gentle in-water hull cleanings will actually extend the life of your anti fouling paint (ablative or hard) as opposed to less frequent, more abrasive cleanings. Be sure the diver you hire knows what he is about. Not all hull cleaners are created equal.

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This is the part so many people miss. Cleanings should never be abrasive and the word "scraping" shouldn't be a part of it. We have cleaners we trust but we also are very strict in terms of their supplies.

There's a reason they give price breaks on frequent cleanings too, beyond just the value of repeat customers. It's far easier work and takes less time. I cringe when I hear people talking about scraping as to me it just reflects inadequate regularly scheduled cleaning.

Yes, I know I sound like an advertisement for divers/bottom cleaners.

Caviblasters (or similar by other names) are also coming in use in South Florida with a couple of divers using them. CaviBlaster by Cavidyne | Mrs. G Diving To fstbttms, are they being used where you are and have you formed an opinion?

A couple of other trends we've seen on bottom cleaning. First, we include in that the running gear and checking all anodes and checking and cleaning all thru hulls thrusters. Now, most local divers now have cameras and take before and after photos and call to your attention anything they notice out of the ordinary. It eliminates a lot of future conflicts. You have time stamped before and after photos plus additional close ups of anything remarkable.

BandB said:

Caviblasters (or similar by other names) are also coming in use in South Florida with a couple of divers using them. CaviBlaster by Cavidyne | Mrs. G Diving To fstbttms, are they being used where you are and have you formed an opinion?

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I have used the Caviblaster on multiple ocassions and have found that it is not an effective tool for all-over hull cleaning of pleasure craft. It cleans too small of an area. I can clean a boat many times faster by hand (or now with the Remora rotary brush system) than I could with a cavitation cleaner. Also, these machines tend to be bulky and heavy, requiring several people or a boat to move around.

That said, for extremely foul surfaces, the Caviblaster has no equal. I used one to clean a 30' X 60' barge that had no anti fouling paint and a solid 18" of mussles over the entire hull. Took me about three hours to do the job. I would have been on it for a day or two if I'd been doing it by hand. Unfortunately, the Caviblaster (and other devices like it) are too expensive for most hull cleaners to afford.

fstbttms said:

Unfortunately, the Caviblaster (and other devices like it) are too expensive for most hull cleaners to afford.

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Due to the number of boats and the frequency of cleaning, hull cleaners in our area are quite a bit larger than in most areas and are more able to justify such expenditures.

What is your opinion on them and damaging of the bottom paint vs other methods? I've been skeptical there and based on your mention of how well they work on very badly fouled surfaces would be more so in spite of claims to the contrary. I would see them as poor alternatives to gentle cleaning but good alternatives to scraping and abrasive cleaning. Tougher than a sponge but not as bad as steel wool.

BandB said:

What is your opinion on them and damaging of the bottom paint vs other methods?

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My experience is that cavitation cleaners do not damage or remove anti fouling paint.