Sold boat maybe

Some of you may have been following my thread trying to sell my boat under the Classified section. It's been an interesting 4 months and I've met some really nice people and some folks that have no problem wasting my time with no intention of buying any boat.

Anyway pending the results of oil sample tests I may have sold Flyin Low. But I need advice about money transfer. The buyer lives about 1000 miles away and the oil sample tests should be back by Monday. We signed an Offer to Purchase with a closing date on or before 1/14/2017 unless a later date is agreed upon. That's tomorrow and the oil sample test results won't be back before then. If the oil samples come back OK then he has agreed to buy the boat but doesn't want to transfer the money until he returns to the boat in late January. I really don't want to wait that long but I think he really wants to be present when he wires me the money and can see the boat hasn't changed since he saw it last, earlier this week.

There is also the issue of paper work. I the seller am the only one who has to have the bill of sale notarized, there is no need for the buyers signature to be notarized on any paper work including the transfer of Certificate of Documentation.

So what to do? If he refuses to close before he can get here in late January what can I do? I don't want to loose this sale, nor does he as he's already spent $1200 on surveyor and haul out fees. I'm thinking of demanding an additional $5000 deposit to hold the boat the additional time. Any ideas?

If he does agree to close before he gets here I don't want to send him the notarized bill of sale before getting the wire transfer. So how is this done? Escrow agent? Any suggestions are well appreciated.
I trust him and I believe he trusts me, but still.

First thing is to agree upon a later closing date. In that agreement you can specify and agree to additional terms such as a nonrefundable deposit or reimbursement of additional moorage, whatever you agree is fair. Or just extend the date and trust him. It's only two weeks. Don't provide a bill of sale until you get the funds, obviously.

Personally I would say that 2 weeks to wait is not that bad to accommodate everybody. After the oil results, if you want any guarantee ask him to send you a signed agreement that he will buy the boat and pay you the price when you will do all the administrative tasks in 2 weeks. When people are not leaving in the same area it is often difficult to be on the same schedule so both party should be comprehensive about constraints of each other.

Does he have any deposit on the boat with you now? If so, nothing wrong with signing an agreement to close at the later date with him handling his share of dockage, etc.

If no deposit down, this is a good time to get one. No skin off his back if it closes, it goes to the purchase.

Is a broker involved? If so he should be handling all this stuff.

Congratulations....


You would need to know a few more things I believe....
- What the buyers state requires for registration purposes
- What his insurance company might require from the seller
- If the boat is stored offsite when the balance of those payments have been made


The boat is only sold when all of the transfer paperwork is completed and the funds have cleared (not just received). These include....
- Your documentation filing with the USCG
- Your states registration if/when required


While the boat should never be released until funds have cleared practically speaking if the boat is 1,000 miles away from the buyer who will need to arrange shipping you likely have some control while a bank check or registered check is in the process of clearing.
There are many ways to arrange an escrow agent to receive both payment and transfer paperwork from the buyer and seller holding onto one until both can be disbursed - Boat US is one source but there are many.


If the potential new owner wants to come out again at the time of selling then its an easy trip to the bank to make sure funds cleared and handing over the selling docs at the same time - as long as it is planned ahead of time.


Deposit - the boat is not sold until the final exchange of selling documents and the agreed upon price is transferred. Until that time the boat should continue to be showed and offers entertained. If you already have a selling document in place then you should be following what that says until/unless it expires.

Wire transfer is the way to go here. If you have a contract now without a deposit, don't stir the pot for a 2 week delay. Past 2 weeks it may be time to reevaluate. Wire transfers happen in a matter of a few hours or less between 2 USA banks. For Closing: have everything set up in advance (wiring instructions), buyer does a final walk through, paper work is signed but not released to the buyer, money is wired, upon confirmation of funds in your bank account paper work is released to buyer.

Ted

"If you have a contract now without a deposit, don't stir the pot for a 2 week delay."


Agreed in general but I would not be telling other interested folks that the boat is sold if the agreement has expired and the word will get out that the boat is not available.


"Wire transfers happen in a matter of a few hours or less between 2 USA banks."
Agreed but wired finds can be reversed within a day or less so check with your bank manager and get a full guarantee that the funds in question are clear and safe before considering the deal completed.


FWIW - I really do not like deposits myself but when a deal begins to get delayed I usually ask for a drop dead date that they will absolutely take the item by or before. When they figure out that date I would promise that item to the buyer but then take a non-refundable deposit to lock up the deal until that date. This has worked for me on the last 3 larger boat/car transactions that just got too complicated and began to take way to long the past couple of years. Often financing that is either against the item being bought or 'blind' to the seller was behind the delays.
Spring is coming quickly so you do not want to be out of the market unless the boat is sold.

Thanks for all the input guys. I guess a 2 week delay is reasonable. I have a $1000 deposit and will ask for a $5000 non refundable additional deposit and sign a new closing date. The buyer will register the boat here in FL so paperwork should be minimal and straight forward. To my knowledge there is no financing required. There is no broker involved.

I think its reasonable for an agreement to stipulate a good oil sample (and what is good should be spelled out) means he will buy the boat, a deposit and a date set to close the deal.

Ken

timjet said:

Thanks for all the input guys. I guess a 2 week delay is reasonable. I have a $1000 deposit and will ask for a $5000 non refundable additional deposit and sign a new closing date. The buyer will register the boat here in FL so paperwork should be minimal and straight forward. To my knowledge there is no financing required. There is no broker involved.

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Now that you almost sold it, do you start being sentimental about being seperated from your girl?

We had a lawyer collect the money and do the final distribution when we sold our last boat. The $500 was split between the buyer (from Colorado) and we were in North Carolina where the boat was.

When we bought Hobo, we had a marine tile company do the same thing. The seller was from Alaska and we we were Washington residents, $500.

If the oil samples come back OK then he has agreed to buy the boat . . .

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The engineer in me wonders if you've defined what "OK" means.

You already have a signed agreement and agreed to a $1000 deposit. It appears that an acceptable oil sample is part of the agreement as is a later close date to accommodate that sample. Two weeks sounds very reasonable for an out of town buyer who already has skin in the game but an additional $5000 does not. You've found a willing buyer, I'd try to treat him well and help him out as best I could. Besides, if he gets mad at what he finds to be an unreasonable demand and asks for his deposit back what are you going to do?

GregBrannon said:

The engineer in me wonders if you've defined what "OK" means.

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Difficult to tie down a buyer doing tests. A buyer who wants to find an out on a "subject to survey" agreement usually can.
2 weeks in a 4 month hunt for a buyer is nothing. A sale comes more from the intentions and goodwill of the parties than a written agreement. This one sounds good, must be quite a relief.
Wonder if the buyer logs onto TF??...Checking a TF member`s boat history from his TF posts could be rewarding and informative for a buyer.

Typical purchase contracts have an "acceptance" event where the buyer has completed their inspections and agrees to move forward with the purchase. Once the buyer has accepted the boat, their deposit becomes non-refundable.

If your agreement is like that, I would simply ask for a written acceptance once the oil sample is received back, and a committed closing date. Then if for whatever reason he backs out of the deal, you keep the deposit.

If your agreement doesn't provide for all this, you can simply ask for it, but do it all in writing (email is fine). Just ask him to agree that he has accepted the boat's condition and agreed to close on XYZ data, and that from this point forward the deposit is non-refundable.

Shouldn't be a big deal, and if it becomes one them maybe there is a hidden issue.

A 2 week delay sounds reasonable to me. He appears to have a valid reason so amending the Offer To Purchase by extending the close date seems like a routine matter. Send him a signed amendment via email.
It might be tempting to add more conditions but that's treading into the unknown. Not a place to be 2 weeks from closing.

O C Diver said:

Wire transfer is the way to go here. If you have a contract now without a deposit, don't stir the pot for a 2 week delay. Past 2 weeks it may be time to reevaluate. Wire transfers happen in a matter of a few hours or less between 2 USA banks. For Closing: have everything set up in advance (wiring instructions), buyer does a final walk through, paper work is signed but not released to the buyer, money is wired, upon confirmation of funds in your bank account paper work is released to buyer.

Ted

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Bingo. Wire transfer is the only secure way to do this. Great instructions above - go have lunch or give the buyer a full systems orientation while the wire transfer is executed.

Glad you are on to your next adventure...best wishes.

Jeff

Captain Paul said:

Two weeks sounds very reasonable for an out of town buyer who already has skin in the game but an additional $5000 does not. You've found a willing buyer, I'd try to treat him well and help him out as best I could. Besides, if he gets mad at what he finds to be an unreasonable demand and asks for his deposit back what are you going to do?

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+1

I would do what ever is needed not to run the buyer off!!!

timjet said:

Thanks for all the input guys. I guess a 2 week delay is reasonable. I have a $1000 deposit and will ask for a $5000 non refundable additional deposit and sign a new closing date. The buyer will register the boat here in FL so paperwork should be minimal and straight forward. To my knowledge there is no financing required. There is no broker involved.

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You sound like a nice guy but this is business. Ask for the additional non refundable deposit. REFUNDABLE if the oil sample comes back bad. ASK whether this is a financed purchase. (Many institutions will not finance a used boat).

Continue to show the boat if the opportunity arises until the 5 grand is paid. Who knows? You may have a bidding war on your hands all of a sudden. Afterall, boating season is coming.

Donna said:

Continue to show the boat if the opportunity arises until the 5 grand is paid. Who knows? You may have a bidding war on your hands all of a sudden. Afterall, boating season is coming.

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I know of a boat that recently came up FSBO. It was listed at about $30K less than similarly listed boats on YW and is a mostly fresh water boat. Instantly, he had 4 interested parties and ended up selling substantially above the listing price to the first party that came to look at it.

Just my 2cents. Asking for a nonrefundable deposit, till the oil results come back, is useless, in my opinion.. oil analysis, is based on the interpretation of the reader. All oil that comes back checked for metal, water, antifreeze, etc, will show some degree or another of something, in the result. The buyer can say no go, if even the results are close to perfect, but still show metal, etc. All engines wear. In my opinion, your going to get wacked again on the money. I would find out when the oil results are definitely coming back, allow a reasonable amount of time, for review, maybe 3 days, and say poop or get off the pot, after that. Since you have no other buyers, presently, go with flow, but put a cap on the time and do not back down. Also when it comes to the transfer of money, no bill of sale or transfer of documentation papers, till paid in full. No need for a wire transfer, if he's coming to the boat, just go to the bank together and have him put the money right 8nto your account .if he decides to wire transfer, fine, just as soon as the money hits the bank, which is considered cash, move the money to another bank, immediately.
By the way, we just bought a 40dp, after selling our 44 defever.

Wired bank funds re typically safe but they can be reversed. If you receive payment in this fashion please visit with your receiving bank manager and let him/her inform you when the funds have been 'accepted' on their side ate are 100% secure.
I have seen bank wires reversed after the receiving side 'thought' a safe transfer was completed.
Similarly cashiers checks, certified checks, and bank checks with large amounts should be passed by the manager so he/she can call the drawing institution and confirm the funds will transfer.


Donna and I seem to be the only ones on the same page with our thoughts on selling items.
- He may be a nice guy that is attempting to take a loan against a home or in other ways
- He may be a nice guy who has a family emergency and will need more than 2 weeks
-He may be a nice guy who is still required to convince another family member that this is a good thing to do.


When I buy a boat/car/home I ask for a length of time to complete the deal under full knowledge of what needs to happen between the time I strike the deal and my anticipated closing date - after all I agreed to it. I would then know how and when funds would be available and how and when any 'checks' of the boat would be completed. So while I can see how an oil sample may take a week if it is expedited I do not see how that week would be a surprise to either party.

In the past 3 years I have been involved in no less that 3 unexpected delays with sales on larger priced items:
- A large RIB that we agreed on $65K after he had a surveyor complete his inspection but weeks went by and no sale. I returned his deposit after 3 weeks past the date and a couple of weeks later someone showed up whop bought the boat/trailer for more than the originally agreed $65K in cash that week. The original buyer was furious and I am still not sure why given that he did not buy the boat.


- Wasted an entire selling year in 2015 when someone who carefully looked over my 1995 Bayliner 4788 and agreed on a price and delivery date of Mar 1 2015. As the delays went from 2 weeks to 4 weeks he claimed he needed more time. Since I was trying to be a 'nice guy' this went on for maybe 2 months while other potential buyers went away. After all since I was a 'nice guy' I would not tell a potential buyer to come from 500 miles away to see a boat that was potentially sold without telling them - big mistake. Then many folks who saw the adds just assumed that the boat was unavailable and word got out that it was 'gone'. By the next season we had more folks interested and had one agree to a price and delivery and the same thing began to happen - wife had to have surgery delaying the deals completion. I told them I was returning their deposit and that I hoped the wife gets better soon and that if the boat was still available when they could complete the deal then just call. They lived in Mich and I am in NY. A few other potential buyers became interested by Mar. one of which we settled in on a price and conditions of sale but he was not yet ready for exact timing and deposits. Quickly the original potential buyer asked for a quick sale which required about 2 weeks so he could set up surveyor and 'complete' his HELOC to buy the boat - and that is what happened. I took no deposit but held the boat for 2 weeks with et knowledge that past two weeks would require a $5,000 non refundable deposit for another 3 weeks wait.


- I had a guy commit to buy my 2008 Corvette at $58K in 2016. He bought a plane ticket from SC and asked that I pick him up at the airport to complete the deal and he was loading it on transport after completion> Monies would be exchanged at our agreed to local bank and he was vetted out at his place of work at a financial company in SC. Day before the flight he has a family emergency and cannot make the trip for an unforeseen period of time. Thankfully I did not pull the adds or lose potential buyers by telling them it was sold as I was able to sell it a week later to another party.

Point of my stories - you can be a decent seller without being foolish like I was. You should never tell folks something is sold until it is completely sold. Once a deal varies from the initial conditions you never know what will happen next. Sources of potential buyers funds are often unknown even though they may have claimed or led you to believe otherwise. You will never know what is going on in a potential buyers mind or family.....
And - boats are often like fruit in that they will go stale in time or in season. If you take your boat off the market and/or announce that it is sold it will likely cost you more than the $5,000 you may keep of a deposit.
Be a 'nice guy' but make sure you take care of business and sell the boat...

Love your post Smitty. I sold my 1998 24ft. Sea Ray from someone from Texas with cash in hand. He called on a Wednesday and the following Wednesday he was here with a truck that could tow it back with him. Although the trailer needed MINOR work, I knew it was safe for him to return back to Texas with it. He tried to get the price down for the minor work on the trailer. I never listed the trailer. It was a bonus. Take it or leave it. Took him and his buddy on a sea trial, drove to the bank, made the exchange and the boat now has a new home on a lake in Texas. Did I play hardball? Yes, but well worth it. The boat was super clean and I knew it. All maintenance records intact.