Buying new Anchor

I am a newbie, spent days reading data and posts. I have a 44' 30,000# (dry) Gulfstar trawler, came with old 45# CQR and a new Fortress 37. Planning on buying a Mantus anchor, don't know what size, have check makers chart, buts there's real life. I am thinking 45 , 55 or 65#. What's the pros and cons. Don't know where I will be cruising yet, but could be the Caribbean.

I'd go with the CQR that's in the boat. My theory regarding anchors is that the CQR and Bruce did not earn their position on top of most anchor performance charts 20 years ago without good reason. These days it seems that we have several more new anchors available to choose from which seem to exhibit very good performance. How much better than the CQR and Bruce can they be? 2% to 5% better? I've been using a Bruce in two different boats (different size anchor on those boats) since 1982 on all types of bottoms and have never has the Bruce failed to hold our boat secure.

Make that THREE different boats; forgot we switched from sail to the diesel Albin, which is also fitted with a Bruce.

Most all modern anchors are good.
Look at the tests and find one that is most flexable. Ability to perform in rocky, mud or perhaps weeds. The bottom is the biggest variable .. not the anchors. It's easy to pick the ones w the highest holding power on good bottoms but flexability is a higher quality not usually tested. Some anchors like the ARA SARCA are almost bullet proof. Seek out the anchor tests but they can lead you astray. That happened with me and I wound up with a very high holding power anchor that was very dificult to set. And such an anchor tends to drag if not set.

TF has several books worth of information on anchors .. have fun searching.

SteveandZoila, so much work has been done, settle down with coffee and nibbles and read this thread: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s42/anchor-setting-videos-23378.html
From memory Mantus did ok, but it`s not the only one. Take note of his reversal tests, reversal and reset ability is the most likely event while you are sleeping which will challenge your anchor.

size

I have researched, and watched hours of videos , the question is the right size for my boat. 30,000 dry, who knows what loaded is, ie 500 fuel 350 h2o, etc.

I bought a Rocna, and sized it one size larger than what the chart recommended. It has never let me down.

Got rid of the CQR that came with the boat. Hated that thing.

SteveandZoila said:

I have researched, and watched hours of videos , the question is the right size for my boat. 30,000 dry, who knows what loaded is, ie 500 fuel 350 h2o, etc.

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All anchor makers will have a chart with their recommendations re anchor size based on boat type, length and tonnage. All you need to do is settle on what type you want to buy first, then be guided by them re the size. Many folk say take whatever the maker recommends and go one size bigger. You won't go wrong with that approach, but could well end up with an anchor heavier than needed, and the wear and tear on the lifting tackle that results. Everything is a trade-off I guess.

I would just add one thing. Please don't buy a new CQR. If one did come with the boat, by all means try it, but with them, getting the set is critical. It is one type which has definitely been left behind by the newer designs, although they still can (the operative word, can), work well, depending on if it's an original or a knock-off, and how much the shank hinge, (its Achilles heel), is worn. They are often nigh on impossible to set, depending on the bottom involved. Reliability of setting, and easier setting, are the main benefits from the later generation anchors.

SteveandZoila said:

I have researched, and watched hours of videos , the question is the right size for my boat. 30,000 dry, who knows what loaded is, ie 500 fuel 350 h2o, etc.

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Depends on the anchor, your boating style and your location that determines the bottom type or types. Rocks, sand, mud .........?
Some of the older anchors work well but need to be considerably larger. I use a 15lb high performance anchor but if I use a Claw it should be 33lbs.
The weight of your boat is a factor but only when waves are present. Mostly it's a matter of windage. Care to post a pic of your boat?

cardude01 said:

I bought a Rocna, and sized it one size larger than what the chart recommended. It has never let me down.

Got rid of the CQR that came with the boat. Hated that thing.

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Did the exact same thing and have been very happy.
Be careful about getting too big of an anchor - make sure what you get will fit your pulpit and is not too heavy for your windlass to lift.

cardude01 said:

I bought a Rocna, and sized it one size larger than what the chart recommended. It has never let me down.

Got rid of the CQR that came with the boat. Hated that thing.

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Did the same thing and gave away the CQR. Still have the Bruce in the number 2 position.

Ted

Steve and Zoila. In answer to your original question. I would follow the manufacture's recommendation as others have noted.
We have a 50', reasonable windage, 88# Mantus and 240' + of chain. Never dragged but max wind in the anchorage at 35 kn - no hurricanes!
YMMV. Good luck!
Cheers, Neil

When I bought my 43', 31,000 lb. trawler last spring, it too came with a 45 lb. CQR copy. While my 40', 20,500 lb. sailboat did fine with an authentic 45 lb. CQR, I didn't think the copy would make me comfortable on the trawler.

I went with a Sarca Excel. The manufacturer had these recommendations;
22 kg anchor for 12-15m boat length or 7-15 Tons
30 kg anchor for 15-17m boat length or 15-21 Tons

Since my boat is 13m and 14Tons I went with the anchor where my boat fit at the bottom of the range as opposed to the top of the range.

dhays said:

When I bought my 43', 31,000 lb. trawler last spring, it too came with a 45 lb. CQR copy. While my 40', 20,500 lb. sailboat did fine with an authentic 45 lb. CQR, I didn't think the copy would make me comfortable on the trawler.

I went with a Sarca Excel. The manufacturer had these recommendations;
22 kg anchor for 12-15m boat length or 7-15 Tons
30 kg anchor for 15-17m boat length or 15-21 Tons

Since my boat is 13m and 14Tons I went with the anchor where my boat fit at the bottom of the range as opposed to the top of the range.

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Good choice - good rationale re size also.

Our boat came with a Lewmar 66#. We had trouble getting it to set almost every time. We switched to a Mantus 85# and have never had an issue getting it set first time every time, usually within its own length. I know everyone loves their anchor, but we'll never have anything but a Mantus.

$.02.

Let the flames begin.

Why try and guess on sizing?

I contacted the head office of the brand I wanted, not a reseller and sent specs of my boat, usage and a picture so they could see windage and told them to have at it.
I even gave them the opportunity to talk me into something larger and was assured 150lb supreme for ours was more than enough.

Instant set every time and has held in 80 knots where just about everyone around us dragged.

Did not realize the CQR is so difficult to set. When I first became enfatuated with cruising sailboats back in the 1960's (it would be 20 years until I could afford one) the CQWR was what one saw in magazine photos on the bow roller of most serious cruising vessels. A "next size up" Bruce was what the builder equipped all of his boats with (Edey & Duff) land they've never let me down. My present Albin-25 came with a CQR (loose, no bow roller) but I quickly switched to a Bruce.

Don't jump into a new one until you know how your current rig works. If you are new to all this, get a lot of anchoring nights under your belt before throwing a lot of money at a "problem" that may not even exist. Talk to people that have cruised the grounds where you might go and people with similar boats. BOAT LOADS of cruisers have cruised with CQR anchors. And certainly don't completely base your purchase on the advise you get here. For all their amazing attributes, these guys (like all boaters) have argued over anchors for the entire 7+ years I have been here. A fact that I am sure was not lost on you in your research. In addition... Do you know for sure if the previous owner didn't step up the weight of the anchor the last time? If so, adding to that... again... is unnecessary. How is your rode? It it all chain? If not, maybe that is all you need.

All I am saying is... Take your time to figure it out and don't go racing to spend a ton of money on something you might not even need to spend.

I used CQR's for twenty five years of sailing and on trawlers. The first trawler also had a Bruce which I used in different anchorages as an alternative to the CQR. Both worked fine, last year I removed the CQR and bought a 44 lb Rocna Vulcan which to me is an anchor that took the best of both the CQR and the Bruce. The Rocna Vulcan sets fast, holds and fits the Manatee pulpit, mine is rigged with all chain rode.

Steve,

I would go one size up from the manufacturer's recommendation. No real reason, just because if your windlass can handle it, I'd rather have the extra holding power.

Do consider what happens if the windlass fails and how, if at all, you could get the anchor up.

Also, I'd dump that CQR ASAP. Ours held once out of every three times but we have 20,000lbs on you and had the same weight CQR. We love our Rocna!

Good luck!

Also, I'd dump that CQR ASAP. Ours held once out of every three times but we have 20,000lbs on you and had the same weight CQR. We love our Rocna!

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I used CQR's for twenty five years of sailing and on trawlers. The first trawler also had a Bruce which I used in different anchorages as an alternative to the CQR. Both worked fine

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See what I mean?

What anchor manufacturers recommend is all over the map. ARA recommends one size over what most would so if you go one size over that it would be fine for an old anchor (except a Danforth) but overkill for a HP anchor. So the question of size does not lend itself to a formula like 1# per foot of boat or any of the other "standards" that are out there. Still it's good to at least view what the manufacturer recommends. See what other manufacturers recommend for the same type/class of anchor. Pick a size and float it by the forum to see what others here are using. There's an extremely worn out saying here .... "bigger is better" but it's a sign of insecurity and a habit that leads to really big anchors.
One size over what a average group of manufacturers recommends may be a fairly good standard. One size over what TF members use is probably in excess of that. Your question really is a can of worms.

I think the recommendations in the Chapman book are good.

What's more important than size is how you use it.

Full reply

That 1st reply was sent before I finished it, oops! Thanks for everybody's input. Yesterday I read approx. 20 Pages on Cruiser Forum discussing anchor, as well as other articles and u-tube vids! I am new at big boats, I have anchored this boat on the Tom bigbee and lakes, no real water, my anchor chain was probadly piled om top of my anchor! But my goal is boating in all water and I want to be prepared. ( old boy scout) The Mantus size chart for 30,000# boat for great than 50 kts, 65# . I just didn't want to get to big in case I have to pull up manually, but not too small in case of major storm. The CQR is going to be retired. Still have the Fortress 37. Thanks for everybody's help.

Nomad Willy said:

What's more important than size is how you use it.

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Are we still talking about anchors? I've been using that line in another context for over 30 years.

CPseudonym said:

I've been using that line in another context for over 30 years.

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Sooooo.... Since you were 50?

No 20

I'm a grower not a shower

I'm an organic gardener you sick bastard

Craig,
That wasn't bait but I was sure I'd hear about that. Only took two posts.

S&Z,
Lets see a picture of your boat .... or you could just tell us whose avatar represents your boat .. windage wise.

Nomad Willy said:

What anchor manufacturers recommend is all over the map. ARA recommends one size over what most would so if you go one size over that it would be fine for an old anchor (except a Danforth) but overkill for a HP anchor. So the question of size does not lend itself to a formula like 1# per foot of boat or any of the other "standards" that are out there. Still it's good to at least view what the manufacturer recommends. See what other manufacturers recommend for the same type/class of anchor.

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I think that useful, maybe even to break down a little further.

Any given manufacturer's recommendation may or may not (maybe more likely the latter) to an anchor from a different manufacturer, even if of the same weight, or size.

OTOH, maybe some anchor designs can be aggregated into a "class?" for examination, and in that instance maybe some commonalities in size or weight recommendations may surface. (?)

Can't think of some example just now, but I think maybe there are a couple similar roll-bar/scoop anchors? Maybe a couple non-roll-bar/scoop anchors? Maybe some plows -- hinged CQR or one-piece Delta -- that are close enough to compare like that?

If so, maybe comparison of makers' recommendation would be useful.

Or not.

OTOH, comparing a Rocna to a Fortress (for example) would be really much more like apples and oranges... so the weight of one wouldn't likely be at all related to the weight of the other. Maybe size (physical dimensions) could work, but that starts turning into work...

Have to admit, I'm happy to realize an anchor manufacturer has way more experience with their product than I do... so their recommendations are usually my first stop.

-Chris

SteveandZoila said:

That 1st reply was sent before I finished it, oops! Thanks for everybody's input. Yesterday I read approx. 20 Pages on Cruiser Forum discussing anchor, as well as other articles and u-tube vids! I am new at big boats, I have anchored this boat on the Tom bigbee and lakes, no real water, my anchor chain was probadly piled om top of my anchor! But my goal is boating in all water and I want to be prepared. ( old boy scout) The Mantus size chart for 30,000# boat for great than 50 kts, 65# . I just didn't want to get to big in case I have to pull up manually, but not too small in case of major storm. The CQR is going to be retired. Still have the Fortress 37. Thanks for everybody's help.

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My take on the anchor size get one that will work well in ordinary conditions not overweight or with modern light anchors oversized. Keep one or two good aluminum high holding anchors to deploy from dinghy in challenging conditions. You already have the fortress for that. I carry a fortress and a aluminum spade as my back up anchors. I see no need to strain gear with an oversized anchor for the usual conditions which commonly entail a protected anchorage in light to moderate wind with possible wind shifts which a good normal sized anchor should handle. An oversized anchor is exactly that oversized.

Eyeshulman,
For what you use aluminum anchors I use a steel 13lb Danforth. A steel Danforth is still a lightweight anchor. And very hand deployable up to a point well above my size boat/anchor. But probably your size boat would almost require aluminum. Rocnas hold very well and a very small (8lbsfor my boat .. 15lbs for yours) would also do basically what you're talking about. Also I think one should have a hand deploy anchor and rode aboard any boat until it becomes not practical.