New Trawler Build: Introduction and First Question

Donsan:
I do not know if the interior is standard or not. You would need to call or email Great Harbour to find out. Their email address and phone number is at the bottom of every page on the website:

TT35 Specifications - Great Harbour Trawlers

Regards,
Pea

Pea - you won't regret getting the airhead toilet. No, our cutwater has an inboard Volvo diesel and not sterndrive. It's a great boat made (and backed) by a super company but it is difficult to get the engine serviced in Texas and is heavy to trailer (11,400 lbs trailer + boat).
Is a triple-axle trailer included in the base price of your boat? Any luck on getting a helm door?
We are planning a boat trip to the FL keys next May and plan to stop by and speak with Ken at Mirage. Hopefully he will have a boat to test drive. Keep us posted on your progress. Bill

Just saw this on Facebook




Looking good!

I wont pull any punches. I don't like it. My advise buy a good used lobster boat with some basic cruising accommodations and a diesel motor in the 35 to 36 foot range. Then you will have a well proven safe economical cruising platform.

The OP is already in the process of building the boat-- money has been paid. What good does your "I don't like it" comment do? I just don't understand comments like that.

If that was your bedside manner as a MD I'm glad you retired, or maybe you were a researcher and didn't have to deal with the public?

Cardude01:
Thank you kindly for posting the Facebook pictures! And like you, I was also momentarily taken aback by Eyschulman's comment; but then I reflected that if I boated in Seattle I'd probably be only interested in a very heavy, deep draft vessel, too.

Bill:
To answer your questions, yes on the helm door and yes on the trailer. Now we need a bigger truck. And we are trying to schedule another trip up to the GH plant next week, and I promise to be better about posting the pictures in a timely manner.

Finally have some time off tomorrow and we will be putting the finishing touches on the Christmas lights on the little boat for the neighborhood Christmas Eve Boat Parade. The weather is going to be perfect (woohoo!) for the boat parade, with a high of 80 F (26.6 C) in the afternoon on Christmas Eve and a low of 66 F (18.9 C) early Christmas morning, so we should be right around 72-74 F (23 C) for the nighttime parade.

One of the most awesome parts of this neighborhood boating tradition is that everyone lines their seawall with luminaries (candles set in sand inside white bags.) To get an idea of what it looks like, here is a photo of our backyard during the day compared to a photo of the same scene on Christmas Eve before the boat parade. (The blue line of light is a light string wrapped around the edge of our dock and reflected in the water below the dock. All the white dots are the luminaries lining our little cove, on land and also reflected in the water, which you can also see closer up on our seawall and dock.)

It is actually a very spiritual experience to glide along the water on Christmas Eve seeing this and have hundreds of neighbors calling out "Merry Christmas!" and "Thank you!" and "God Bless!"

On a personal note, has anyone else noticed that some friends and loved ones have a really hard time with the holiday season? Last week I realized that I was stuck in a depression, because I miss my dad terribly, who I recently lost under very, very difficult circumstances. However, it is traditions like this wonderful, crazy neighborhood boat parade that help me understand that no matter the hardship, no matter the crap that life throws at me, I have so much to be grateful for. So please lend a hand if you see someone having a hard time at this time of year, often just giving someone a call, and listening, does wonders.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone,
Pea

Miz Trom said:

On a personal note, has anyone else noticed that some friends and loved ones have a really hard time with the holiday season? Last week I realized that I was stuck in a depression, because I miss my dad terribly, who I recently lost under very, very difficult circumstances. However, it is traditions like this wonderful, crazy neighborhood boat parade that help me understand that no matter the hardship, no matter the crap that life throws at me, I have so much to be grateful for. So please lend a hand if you see someone having a hard time at this time of year, often just giving someone a call, and listening, does wonders.

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It's hard to know what to do or say to some. I've known those who just went through a divorce who did not want any mention of Christmas, but wanted company that would promise not to talk about it. Also she avoided all stores that had Christmas products or decorations which is basically all stores. On the other hand for those who lost family, especially if that loss occurred around Christmas. I knew a woman whose husband died with no warning, no health issues, on Dec 26. That made the holiday torturous for her.

The holidays are a time of greatly increased bouts of depression. There is no time better with family and children and no time more lonely when alone. That is very difficult to help with as being with you or your family is still alone for many, sometimes more of a reminder.

The hardest thing, holidays or otherwise, is knowing how to help those struggling. Often it's just a few kind words to let them know you're thinking of them.

BandB; Thank you
Interestingly my grandmother passed on Christmas day 1984 at home with my mother. Unbeknownst to me Miss Micki's grandmother also passed within hours on the same day.
Some times it makes the the season difficult.

eyschulman said:

I wont pull any punches. I don't like it. My advise buy a good used lobster boat with some basic cruising accommodations and a diesel motor in the 35 to 36 foot range. Then you will have a well proven safe economical cruising platform.

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Would like to hear why you feel the TT35 will be an "unproven", "unsafe" and "uneconomical" cruising platform. Except for having dual gas outboards instead of a single diesel direct drive, it's envelope is somewhat similar to a Ranger 31' tug. If this is an indictment on gasoline engines, well, there are an awful lot of unsafe Sea Rays being produced. I fully expect the twin Suzuki 60Hp engines to get as good or better fuel economy than say a Perkins 6-354 or a Lehman at 7 knots based on my own experience with a Yamaha 150. Really think that statement is more than debatable.

Pea - how many will the TT35 sleep? great progress!! Bill

cardude01 said:

The OP is already in the process of building the boat-- money has been paid. What good does your "I don't like it" comment do? I just don't understand comments like that.

If that was your bedside manner as a MD I'm glad you retired, or maybe you were a researcher and didn't have to deal with the public?

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Temper temper . The comment is my opinion regarding the design aimed at all readers. Forms are here to air opinions. I did not notice any warning that only sugar coated opinions and statements are permitted and your post is a personal attack. If I am not permitted to say I don't like a particular design then what good is the site. Is it meant only for socializing and exchanging niceties. I still don't like the design and your insults wont change that.

Donsan said:

Would like to hear why you feel the TT35 will be an "unproven", "unsafe" and "uneconomical" cruising platform. Except for having dual gas outboards instead of a single diesel direct drive, it's envelope is somewhat similar to a Ranger 31' tug. If this is an indictment on gasoline engines, well, there are an awful lot of unsafe Sea Rays being produced. I fully expect the twin Suzuki 60Hp engines to get as good or better fuel economy than say a Perkins 6-354 or a Lehman at 7 knots based on my own experience with a Yamaha 150. Really think that statement is more than debatable.

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Some reasons why I don't like the design as a live aboard for any extended time are 1. narrow living spaces 2 very shallow draft. 3. Not going to like being loaded with a lot of cruising gear. 4. compared to a classic lobster type at 32-36 feet with an inboard diesel I strongly suspect a big difference in sea keeping. If the boat is used in protected shallow waters and extensively trailered the type is better justified. Yes I favor diesel power when possible. Some may like the physical appearance of the boat and not having seen the boat actually in the water makes judgment hard. I place a fair emphasis on a boats appearance and I know that I am not unique in that department. From the drawings alone I suspect that this boat will not excite me. I do like the ranger tugs and consider them more in the realm of pocket cruisers. If people can or do use them as long term cruisers the more power to them.

Interesting concept as far as space and economy. Sea Ray did this with a 37 ft. and twin outboards about 2 years ago. Regarding sea worthiness, I bet you will be fine and can do some great coastal cruising.

eyschulman said:

Temper temper . The comment is my opinion regarding the design aimed at all readers. Forms are here to air opinions. I did not notice any warning that only sugar coated opinions and statements are permitted and your post is a personal attack. If I am not permitted to say I don't like a particular design then what good is the site. Is it meant only for socializing and exchanging niceties. I still don't like the design and your insults wont change that.

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Yes, I consider this a social forum, and it always helps to be nice when being social. So do you always need a warning label like "only sugar coated comments allowed" to keep yourself from sounding like a jerk? If someone is advertising a boat for sale on the forum do you think that gives you the right to post that it looks like a POS and you would never buy such junk?

As my grandmother used to say...."now then you boys"...

Having said that, I think that if one has strong opinions, and is not backward at coming forward to express them, one can expect return salvos in kind, and as such, I feel that is fair enough. If you don't like heat, stay out of the kitchen, or wear a fire-proof apron, is my take on this.

cardude01 said:

Yes, I consider this a social forum, and it always helps to be nice when being social. So do you always need a warning label like "only sugar coated comments allowed" to keep yourself from sounding like a jerk? If someone is advertising a boat for sale on the forum do you think that gives you the right to post that it looks like a POS and you would never buy such junk?

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I don't see the form as just a social exchange. I think it is a place where ideas and boating opinions are exchanged be it about an anchor or how to fix the water pump and if one likes or does not like attributes of a boat. My memory is slipping did I say the boat looks like a POS or is that your opinion slipping out. I thought I said something like the look would probably not excite me, there is a lot of water between those two ports. So far most of the personal attack and nasty statements are from yours truly I only expressed my opinion about a boat. Now that we mutually agree that the other is less than a desirable person the matter is pretty much over for me. I also can assure you even knowing your post and attitude had I found you on my table you would have received the best care I could muster.

eyschulman said:

Some reasons why I don't like the design as a live aboard for any extended time are 1. narrow living spaces 2 very shallow draft. 3. Not going to like being loaded with a lot of cruising gear. 4. compared to a classic lobster type at 32-36 feet with an inboard diesel I strongly suspect a big difference in sea keeping. If the boat is used in protected shallow waters and extensively trailered the type is better justified. Yes I favor diesel power when possible. Some may like the physical appearance of the boat and not having seen the boat actually in the water makes judgment hard. I place a fair emphasis on a boats appearance and I know that I am not unique in that department. From the drawings alone I suspect that this boat will not excite me. I do like the ranger tugs and consider them more in the realm of pocket cruisers. If people can or do use them as long term cruisers the more power to them.

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I have looked and I have looked and have yet to find a 32-36' lobster boat with a centerline queen. Seems like your real indictment is it is designed for the type of boating we encounter in FL and the East Coast including the Bahamas. It may not be as suitable to the PNW with your generally deeper waters. But, I do share your concern over the narrow living spaces and that is why I am taking a wait and see.

You haven't seen it because it hasn't launched yet but the builder has been in the business a long time and his boats are well respected and safe. He has built off shore recreational fishing boats and trawlers and I think they see some opportunities to do something a little different than what the trawler community is used to. Designing a gas powered boat that is economical in the 7-15 knot range hasn't been mainstream and it might turn out to be as economical as some of our overpowered twin diesels. Certainly there are some risks in a new design but this is a proven boat builder.

Doubt if anyone will extensively trailer a 35' boat with a 10' beam but I do think they might be trailered 2-4 times a year and might be what some snow birders are looking for. The are several owners who have two boats because of the time it takes to cruise from the north or midwest to the west coast of FL. My idea is to hire a truck to trailer a boat up to MI in May and then return it to FL in early October.

Anyway, don't share most of your concerns.

Eyschulman,

I apologize for my personal comments. I was trying to make a point but that was not the right way to do it.

When I first saw the apparent mockup partitions and such I was horrified that it might be something to be glassed over and made permanent! Glad to see the "plywood" wont be permanent. Its not plywood either, its chipboard which is why I was alarmed. I just had to have the floor in my travel trailer completely replaced because it was made of this most inferior of materials.

Donsan said:

I have looked and I have looked and have yet to find a 32-36' lobster boat with a centerline queen. Seems like your real indictment is it is designed for the type of boating we encounter in FL and the East Coast including the Bahamas. It may not be as suitable to the PNW with your generally deeper waters. But, I do share your concern over the narrow living spaces and that is why I am taking a wait and see.

You haven't seen it because it hasn't launched yet but the builder has been in the business a long time and his boats are well respected and safe. He has built off shore recreational fishing boats and trawlers and I think they see some opportunities to do something a little different than what the trawler community is used to. Designing a gas powered boat that is economical in the 7-15 knot range hasn't been mainstream and it might turn out to be as economical as some of our overpowered twin diesels. Certainly there are some risks in a new design but this is a proven boat builder.

Doubt if anyone will extensively trailer a 35' boat with a 10' beam but I do think they might be trailered 2-4 times a year and might be what some snow birders are looking for. The are several owners who have two boats because of the time it takes to cruise from the north or midwest to the west coast of FL. My idea is to hire a truck to trailer a boat up to MI in May and then return it to FL in early October.

Anyway, don't share most of your concerns.

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When I look at this design with a use pattern south east coat (I boated Intercostal WW for 20 years) I compare it to a IB or OB powered 30 to 35 foot power catamaran or several other standard power boats which will do good service in the same areas, I think the boat falls far short in that comparison. I am sorry for invoking the multihull on a trawler site but really the design we are talking about will have a tough time fitting into the lower curve of whatever we decide a rec. trawler is. I just think there are lots of existing boat types at 35 feet LOA that trump this design many by a good margin depending on ones use pattern. Almost all those boats have known or knowable records some very well proven. When a builder or Marine Architect comes out with something new there is always an element of the unknown involved. It is entirely understandable that the manufacturer wants to expand their line but here I am not sure what is being offered that is different than all the 35 foot boats that can be had cheaper on the used market? These are some of the reasons why I don't like the design and my opinion is stated for all those people reading the posts on the site who come here to learn about boats and is in no way specifically directed at the new owner. When they posted on this site they opened the door. Maybe when they start using their boat it will help them understand what some of the compromises that were used to achieve this build. That's just my opinion which is based on over 50 years of boating and ownership of >25 boats and some years as a CGAUX safety inspector. And I'm still learning and know I don't know it all but do have opinions to share.

cardude01 said:

Eyschulman,

I apologize for my personal comments. I was trying to make a point but that was not the right way to do it.

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Accepted, I got the point.

Interesting concept as far as space and economy. Sea Ray did this with a 37 ft. and twin outboards about 2 years ago. Regarding sea worthiness, I bet you will be fine and can do some great coastal cruising. -FLETCHER500

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Doubt if anyone will extensively trailer a 35' boat with a 10' beam but I do think they might be trailered 2-4 times a year and might be what some snow birders are looking for. The are several owners who have two boats because of the time it takes to cruise from the north or midwest to the west coast of FL. My idea is to hire a truck to trailer a boat up to MI in May and then return it to FL in early October.

Anyway, don't share most of your concerns. -DONSAN

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Thanks, Fletcher and Donsan, for rescuing this thread from an odd conceit. And you, too, Cardude.

We visited our boat last week. I got a few pictures of a hurricane-damaged Great Harbour N37 in the yard, and then my phone mysteriously failed to record any more pictures than the one below. The photo is just Dan and Eric (a longtime Great Harbour/Mirage staff member ) standing inside the cabin with the interior mockup removed. As you can see, there is no roof yet.

The anchor locker, stringers and the sole are all glassed in. Every part of the hull connectors, walls, bulkheads, etc. are heavily fiberglassed together. It was really something to see the long sheets of glass stretching from end to end. Having done a bit of glassing when I was a youngster, I was quite impressed. Travis said he would send me some photos of the stringers without the sole glassed in, so if he does I will post them here.

We covered many subjects with Ken, Travis and Eric (and missed our friend Pierce). Batteries for the house bank - we are thinking Firefly because we can utilize 80% of capacity . Flying bridge - we are going with an aluminum flybridge because in the winter when we keep our big boat at our little house on our little canal, we have to go under a somewhat low bridge to get to Tampa Bay, and we do get the occasional extra high tide in the spring. There may be times when we need to fold down the flybridge for clearance under this bridge, and for trailering, so aluminum it will be.

Ken and Travis aren't sure when the boat will be finished. They are shooting for next month, but also warned us that it most likely will not be done until March. Sigh. I was really hoping that they would have the boat done in time for TrawlerFest.

The next day went to see Tom Foley at Marine Specialties in Oldsmar, recommended by Ken. He builds beautiful flybridges! He showed us around his shop, and then showed us several different aluminum flying bridges for one boat that he had built for some rich doctor, who has much more money than sense, and we had a good chuckle. I can't imagine having that kind of dough to throw around.

Warm Regards,
Pea

Very cool! I've met Ken and he seems like a stand up guy. Excited about the progress!

Miz Trom said:

Flying bridge - we are going with an aluminum flybridge because in the winter when we keep our big boat at our little house on our little canal, we have to go under a somewhat low bridge to get to Tampa Bay, and we do get the occasional extra high tide in the spring. There may be times when we need to fold down the flybridge for clearance under this bridge, and for trailering, so aluminum it will be.

....

The next day went to see Tom Foley at Marine Specialties in Oldsmar, recommended by Ken. He builds beautiful flybridges! He showed us around his shop, and then showed us several different aluminum flying bridges for one boat that he had built for some rich doctor, who has much more money than sense, and we had a good chuckle. I can't imagine having that kind of dough to throw around.

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Guess I am kind of a dummy and can't visualize a folding aluminum flybridge. Would you have a picture of one? A Google search and came up with this pic but it doesn't look folding. It also looks rather exposed. Perhaps the ideal way to have a folding flybridge would be if the outboards are completely fly by wire. We took a ride in a pontoon boat powered by a Mercury Verado which was allegedly completely fly by wire but Mercury may have backed off on that option as it couldn't be found on their website. They were only available on the big engines anyway.

Miz Trom said:

Thanks, Fletcher and Donsan, for rescuing this thread from an odd conceit. ...

The next day went to see Tom Foley at Marine Specialties in Oldsmar, recommended by Ken. He builds beautiful flybridges! He showed us around his shop, and then showed us several different aluminum flying bridges for one boat that he had built for some rich doctor, who has much more money than sense, and we had a good chuckle. I can't imagine having that kind of dough to throw around.

Warm Regards,
Pea

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Pea,
Is the "odd conceit" you refer to Eyschulman's, less than flattering but heartfelt assessment of the TT35?

If it is I find it interesting that you feel comfortable labeling that an "odd conceit" and shortly afterword picking on another persons boating tastes with the statement "built for some rich doctor, who has much more money than sense, and we had a good chuckle. I can't imagine having that kind of dough to throw around."

Forgive me if I have missed something here, I've reread the thread 3 times now and can't come up with another explanation...

Just seems odd to me.
Bruce

What is the price range of the TT35 with most of the practical
options? trailer, davits, dinghy, good electronics?

How long from ordering a TT 35, to delivery?

The trailerable ability seems a really interesting option
to winter in many other areas.

Is a fly bridge an option?

Thanks for any info

Ctbarbarian and others:
The best way to get pricing and other information on the TT35 is to email Eric at [FONT=&quot]sales@greatharbourtrawlers.com[/FONT]
I checked with Eric to make sure it was okay with him to post his email on this forum. If you prefer to chat with him, then please PM me and I will privately send along his phone number.

Donsan:
Folding flybridges are common on the small recreational fishing boats down here in Florida. They are called "tuna towers." Just think of hinges in the proper locations on that photo you posted. Our flybridge will not be a tuna tower, however. We require comfortable seating.

Bruce B:

I find it interesting that you feel comfortable labeling that an "odd conceit" and shortly afterword picking on another persons boating tastes with the statement "built for some rich doctor, who has much more money than sense, and we had a good chuckle. I can't imagine having that kind of dough to throw around."

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I believed I was being as polite as I could in regards to Eyschulman's comments. But since you seem to insist that I defend myself, I will. His comments, that I considered strident and tactless, and that you considered "heartfelt," were a close-minded attack on our experience and knowledge, and quite extraordinary considering that he has no idea what our many considerations were that led us to choose this boat and this boat builder. That said, this is a public forum and the occasional "odd conceit" is to be expected.

On your second point, I went back and re-read what I wrote. One fact I omitted in relaying the story is that the boater in question owns an enormous 40-45 ft center console fishing boat with four 300-hp outboards hanging off the stern. And this particular boater just might be a polite and decent boater, and has every right to order as many flybridges as he so desires. I have never met him. So I can see how this comment might appear odd or even hypocritical to you.

However, the difference is that I did not make my comments directly to the boater in question on a public forum on a thread that he had initiated.

Regards,
Pea

Well, I still think it's in extremely poor taste to enter a thread that someone starts about their new boat and start criticizing the boat. If someone asks about a boat they're considering, then they're seeking all advice. We have people here all the time who have just purchased boats or who are starting builds. I am not going to ever tell them what I believe they should have bought or built instead. If your friend drove up to you in a new car, would you immediately turn to them and tell them all the things wrong with that car and why they shouldn't have bought it? I certainly hope not.

Miz Trom, I think you'll love your boat. You bought what is right for you. Others can buy what is right for them and we have many discussions here about aspects of boats and what to buy. But you made your decision and a good one and best of luck.

Bruce B said:

"built for some rich doctor, who has much more money than sense, and we had a good chuckle. I can't imagine having that kind of dough to throw around."

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Now, I am with you, Bruce. It's no less insulting to insult the taste of one who is in your opinion, wealthy, than anyone else. That so called rich doctor may actually be a hard worker who worked decades to save for that boat and sacrificed along the way. It's one thing to say it's not the boat for you or that you can't afford it but the insult is inappropriate. It does certainly make me feel less sympathetic to your reaction to anything said to you when you come back with worse. The only difference was you weren't addressing an individual here.

There are also doctors on this forum. Did you appreciate the fact you were insulting them at the same time? What about your own doctor?

Let's let it go and return to the Great Harbour build.

I'm so intrigued by this TT35 model that I signed up for the email list. No doubt, there are others here who are also interested in following along.

Keep it coming, Miz Trom...Great stuff!