Hard or Ablative?

Our New to us boat is "on the hard," with the bottom to be sanded and primed on Monday. Still at question, is should I apply a Hard bottom paint or an ablative? Looking for a concensus or simply the best course for a boat that will be predominately in Florida waters, yet will start the loop from Florida in April. Could really use some feed back.
Thanks in Advance,
KIM

If your boat is slow less than 10K I would suggest ablative. If you spend any significant time at high speed hard. If you want to scrub the bottom from time to time hard.

I travel at 7 knots and started with a good ablative. Am disappointed with the results. Use the same paint on my charter boat that cruises at 15 knots. At 15 knots, the ablative slowly sheds and doesn't require a diver scrub until late in the season. The trawler doesn't seem to travel fast enough to shed and thus requires more frequent scrubs. The scrubs seem to take more paint off, which defeats the purpose. So, I will be switching to hard in the spring and plan on same amount of scrubbings with less paint loss. That's my experience, your mileage may vary,
.

Ted

Thanks for that. Yes, the boat is on the slow side, so the ablative make sense. The boat most likely had an ablative on it, but also had a diver on it about every 8 to 10 weeks.........subsequently it was Scrubbed down to the original surface - nothing left to bond too. I don't know if I can afford to have a diver scrape to often, SO, ablative it is.
Thanks,
KIM

I am kind of in the same predicament, looking at having my bottom sanded down. What I believe I heard Ted say is that ablative requires consistent speed (in excess of trawler speeds) in order to shed the fouling and surface-most paint layer it attaches to...

So if the boat will run slowly (trawler speeds) and particularly if it will experience periods of inactivity at the dock over the course of a couple years, then a hard paint may be better.

Maybe I am wrong, but that is how I heard Ted.

Thanks Ted,
A Good Reason to go with a Hard Paint. We will be leaving Ft. Myers in April, and should log about 6500 miles in about a year. We'll be moving along quite a bit for a while, but then will become a little more sedentary. It's the months back in Florida that will require more scrappings. If we go with ablative, we end up paying to put in on, then pay someone to scrap it off. Definetly an 'AH Ha!!!" moment.
Glad I Asked.
KIM

Guess I may see you a long the way. Leaving Fort Myers on or before the 1st of April to do the loop.

Ted

I used Interlux Micron extra 7 or so years ago and not inclined to do so again. It's hard enough so it needs to be removed. Been there done that and I'm NOT going there again. I helped on that job and it was a very bad experience. If you can pay to have someone else do it thats different but I don't consider it a DIY job.
So never again for me.

O C Diver said:

I travel at 7 knots and started with a good ablative. Am disappointed with the results. Use the same paint on my charter boat that cruises at 15 knots. At 15 knots, the ablative slowly sheds and doesn't require a diver scrub until late in the season. The trawler doesn't seem to travel fast enough to shed and thus requires more frequent scrubs. The scrubs seem to take more paint off, which defeats the purpose. So, I will be switching to hard in the spring and plan on same amount of scrubbings with less paint loss. That's my experience, your mileage may vary,
.

Ted

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Curious as to how often you are expecting to have the bottom scrubbed while on the Loop?
I'm also debating which type of bottom paint to use. Similar speed and planning to do bottom paint in April before starting the Loop.

This is what my yardmaster applies to the Coot. Not sure of its properties.

I use ablative and operate at trawler speed (I don't have a choice to go faster haha), and using the boat will clean the bottom. Continual use such as on the loop should keep it clean, not requiring a diver to clean it. Even after sitting at the dock for awhile, the bottom stuff sluffs away during use. When it's time for a new bottom paint job, you can apply an ablative without sanding off the residual, whereas a hard paint will build up and eventually need sanding, which costs more money.

Mark,
That's what I put on Willy before we left for Alaska. Lasted at least 3 years but decided it needed to be removed before recoating. Should have had a fully suited up professional to remove it. I hired a man in Alaska to help me. He did 3/4 of the job and I paied him well. Don't know what I would have done w/o the tungston carbide scraper. Terrible work. I hope your bottom is good enough to just add more paint.

Of course if you hire a bead blaster or other it's just money.
Is that Petit Barnacle Buster on the prop? Didn't work for me. I went back to ArmorAll.

Nomad Willy said:

...
Is that Petit Barnacle Buster on the prop?...

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Not sure. Would need to research the billings. The propeller always seems to attract barnacles first rather than the hull. Strange.

I use the cheapest ablative type I could find.

After watching it for years on assistance towboats I ran...I thought it would work for me too.

I use Interlude Fiberglass Bottomkote NT. Usually pay 80 to 90 bucks a gallon.

When constantly moving on the ICW where you are fresh to salt and back again every week or so, and constantly moving at 6 to 7 knots...my bottom stays clean as new. I do the 2500 miles from Jersey to Florida every winter.

When she sits for 5 months during the summer in a high fouling area, when I pull for the annual bottom check and zinc replacement the bottom is usually fouled but not so bad it mostly comes off with a short ride before the travel lift or had I wiped her down once or twice during the summer.

But every user and home dock has slightly different needs.

While some will say saving money on paint (the last step and possibly the cheapest part of painting)....I say it is equally foolish to waste money on paint that does no better than the cheap one. Granted..just constant moving and salinity changes are probably a bigger factor than the paint.

The trick is, you might have to know what works well in your application through experience, a bunch of questions and notes, or trial and error. But I feel pretty confident that looping will minimize the costs unless you stop for long periods.

I have to say, Great Responses from All, and it was what I was hoping to hear to help with my decision. The part about THE HARD paint building up and creating a problem in itself - and a need to sand or blast it off(over time), I hear in my wallet. One of the responses begs the question regarding the Painting of the Prop. Our Surveyor recommended NOT painting the props - keep em clean for preformance' sake. However I was told the Prop would be the first place the barnacles will attach. If we are moving pretty regularly on The Loop, that may not be a real issure for a year - especially after we make it to the Great Lakes.

Side Note: One of the things that tends to haunt me, is Bumping the Bottom on shifting shoals etc.....as we make it up the East Coast. Being the Positive Thinker(LOL), that I am, having to have the boat Hauled Out for a repair, will be my occasion to Clean the Props.

Thanks to All,
KIM

FOG said:

Curious as to how often you are expecting to have the bottom scrubbed while on the Loop?
I'm also debating which type of bottom paint to use. Similar speed and planning to do bottom paint in April before starting the Loop.

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As the loop is mostly fresh water and I will be moving a fair amount, it might need to be scrubbed once. Plan is to paint in the Chesapeake and be on the Erie canal within a month. The rest is essentially fresh till I hit the Gulf of Mexico. Will be bringing scuba gear (hookah) with me. Plan to check the hull monthly. Have had better luck with the Petit spray zinc as opposed to Prop Speed on the running gear. Prop speed is dependent on fast water flow to blow small developing growth off. At 7 knots my skeg was a barnacle farm. The spray zinc worked much better. On the charter boat with its 15 knot speed, the Prop Speed worked well.

Ted

Ransom said:

I have to say, Great Responses from All, and it was what I was hoping to hear to help with my decision. The part about THE HARD paint building up and creating a problem in itself - and a need to sand or blast it off(over time), I hear in my wallet. One of the responses begs the question regarding the Painting of the Prop. Our Surveyor recommended NOT painting the props - keep em clean for preformance' sake. However I was told the Prop would be the first place the barnacles will attach. If we are moving pretty regularly on The Loop, that may not be a real issure for a year - especially after we make it to the Great Lakes.

Side Note: One of the things that tends to haunt me, is Bumping the Bottom on shifting shoals etc.....as we make it up the East Coast. Being the Positive Thinker(LOL), that I am, having to have the boat Hauled Out for a repair, will be my occasion to Clean the Props.

Thanks to All,
KIM

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The hard paint build up is misleading. If you leave the boat in the water year round and paint every 2 or 3 years, it will take decades to have a significant build up. Put hard paint on my charter boat every spring for 12 years. That and the preceeding 24 years of paint was enough to require sand blasting the hull.

Ted

I have been using ablative paints for 20+ years. I put a marker coat on in a different color then top coated with the desired color. When the marker shows through I repaint, or sometimes just spot paint. My boat never goes more than 7 knots except for a few minutes each spring when I run the engine up to full throttle. I have never had growth beyond a little slime and have never had a diver clean the bottom. As far as the prop goes, I have had a few small barnacles but never more than one or two. I do polish the prop each spring.

The advantages I see of for ablative are no build up and being able to repaint with no bottom prep other than pressure washing at haulout.

For the last 10-12 years I have been using Petit Hydrocoat. Last spring I switched one boat to Sea Hawk Monterey water based ablative and kept the other with Petit Hydrocoat. The Sea Hawk worked a bit better (less slime) and cost $25-$30 a gallon less so I will use it on both boats next year.

I will second the shout for Hydrocoat and Sea Hawk, both are great in New England waters. Using two different colors lets you paint only the worn spots.
As to smoothness, you can get a smoother bottom with hard paint, but you can keep a smoother bottom over years with albative paint. Use the brand that works best in your local area.

When we were in Alaska I used Pettit Sea Mate.
Went to the hardware store and there was a huge pyramid of gallons on the floor. It was obvious people there rarely used anything else. We had tide grids too so cleaning a bit and adding another coat of antifoul was cheap and easy. The Seamate was $80 gal.

markpierce said:

This is what my yardmaster applies to the Coot. Not sure of its properties.

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Interlux Micron Extra is their standard ablative product.

Nomad Willy said:

Is that Petit Barnacle Buster on the prop?.

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It appears to be the Pettit zinc spray paint.

The PO put Petit Trinidad on, February 2013. We are FW moored and spend about 3 months in SW June-September. No fouling except a layer of slime which is power washed off on the lowest possible setting. We have not yet repainted the bottom. No fouling on the propeller either. The main fouling culprits in the PNW are barnacles, which settle March-May.

I see a lot of responses of people all over the country as to what they use. What is recommended for Alaska or Seattle or many other areas is really irrelevant. I would talk to people in my immediate area including shipyards. We're somewhat close to you and use only hard but there is a difference between South Florida and Central Florida, so be careful giving much weight to what we say or do. You might talk to some divers too.

Ablative in South Florida does not eliminate or really reduce bottom cleaning. It has one advantage and that is you don't build up layers of paint. One disadvantage and that is needing more frequent painting. I know some in our area who use ablative and paint annually.

I am far from an expert so... The only thing I know is that my boat had an ablative antifouling fresh when I got it and after 1 season in fresh water it was still perfect when it was hauled.
I checked many times during the season and did not notice any fouling at all. I am travelling only at 7 knots and was using it every weekend or so. I would tend to think that hard paint would be better for cruisers going at higher speed as just the speed will be enough to remove any fouling while for slower boat ablative would be more efficient but I am a novice so do not mind me if I am wrong

Lou_tribal said:

I am far from an expert so... The only thing I know is that my boat had an ablative antifouling fresh when I got it and after 1 season in fresh water it was still perfect when it was hauled.
I checked many times during the season and did not notice any fouling at all. I am travelling only at 7 knots and was using it every weekend or so. I would tend to think that hard paint would be better for cruisers going at higher speed as just the speed will be enough to remove any fouling while for slower boat ablative would be more efficient but I am a novice so do not mind me if I am wrong

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You're not wrong for your boat, but you're in very different waters from the OP. I think everything you say holds true for Quebec. Just Central Florida is a different story.

One note and that is that it is very important to know the paint on a boat before repainting it. You cannot use hard paint over ablative. You can use ablative over hard. Now, there are exceptions to those rules and each manufacturer has compatibility charts. Also, there are now semi-hard with some characteristics of each.

Most paint manufacturers recommend ablative over hard. Also, if your boat is taken out of the water for extended periods, you should not use hard. If the boat sits in the water for long periods with little use, then hard may be better.

The market has very much moved toward ablative with that contradicted only in certain areas of the country based on the waters of those areas.

We did the Loop this year. When we left Ft. Myers in the spring, our bottom was a mess with several years of paint showing through in different colors. I planned to get the bottom done and was advised to wait. We would be in fresh water most of the Loop, so we would not need the antifoulant features most of the year. I had the bottom scrubbed in Morehead City, NC. When we got 3/4s of the Loop completed, we stopped in Iuka, Mississippi and had the boat hauled, all old paint scraped off, and then Micron CSC applied. I wish I had insisted on one layer of hard paint under the ablative but we shall see.

BandB said:

You cannot use hard paint over ablative.

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Sorry, that is simply a wive's tale oft repeated in boatyards and on the docks.

fstbttms said:

Sorry, that is simply a wive's tale oft repeated in boatyards and on the docks.

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You quoted part of my post. and the rest of it was important to the comment. The other part was "Now, there are exceptions to those rules and each manufacturer has compatibility charts. Also, there are now semi-hard with some characteristics of each." And you provided a couple of those charts.

That said, many boatyards are still hesitant with combinations they haven't done previously.

I would encourage anyone to look at their product's charts. I would be very hesitant when switching across manufacturers and among items not reflected on the charts. Of course, some warn against mixing brands, period.

BandB said:

You quoted part of my post.

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Yes, I quoted the part of your post that was factually incorrect.