Replacing Engine After Only 335 Hours!

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BandB said:
Well, it's a matter of wanting the boat back in service. I wasn't trusting, very rigid requirements. But involving lawyers will turn a 90 day exercise into years. Most corporations will discuss, will argue, will debate, but the minute an attorney is brought into the equation they refer it to their legal department and those in operations will no longer be allowed to speak with you.
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What you say may and can be true. And, yes, legal shitt in this case could become a PIA. However... how long will it be before the boat is back in service by Volvo replacing the twins? A year, I bet cha... if lucky. Then, boat has... another pair of "Volvo" engines. What if another, different problem arises that Volvo simply shrugs shoulders at. I could be wrong on how I would handle this, but, what ifs that represent downside risks... piss me off!

I'm not saying that at least at onset just letting Volvo do as they currently promise seems easiest way to go. But, watch out for the during and after effects. Doubtful that Volvo will be giving this twin engine replacement task to their highest qualified... and... they will probably want to save $$$ at every turn. By having them replace the engines boat owner needs to be vigilant the whole time to make sure things are done correctly and with best "Volvo" products available. That could eat up a lot of owner's time and effort. What a headache!!

If this is given to a reputable marine lawyer the owner can wait to get cash settlement with little to no personal time invested. Sure, boat will need to sit idle for long period; proving this mess is a headache no matter which way one turns.

I'm only giving the way I see it; and, would probably do it. BTW, I'm a scrappy SOB, when needed.

Most important thing is for owner to look clearly at all sides before diving in... then, upon decision - - > Go For It!

At very least I would speak with one or two marine lawyers for their input.
 
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Sure hope nobody from Volvo is following this thread. The mention of the L word hits the right desk and the OP will never hear from them again outside of a courtroom.

A year Art? To replace a single pair of diesels? Really?
 
CPseudonym said:
Sure hope nobody from Volvo is following this thread. The mention of the L word hits the right desk and the OP will never hear from them again outside of a courtroom.

A year Art? To replace a single pair of diesels? Really?
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If that is true due to my posts - Then I request that Mods delete all my threads regarding same - This one of Craig's too.

Yup - a year! Bet cha a goldfish!
 
I never deal through attorneys for reasons all of you know.

Volvo has been very responsible to this point and I plan to stay this course until we reach an impasse.

Do you know if I can tell the engine manufacture date by the serial numbers?
 
rclarke246 said:
Do you know if I can tell the engine manufacture date by the serial numbers?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can. I don't know the Volvo numbering but any Volvo employee or mechanic should be able to tell you.

Ultimately, they're acting responsibly and you cross your fingers, hoping that continues. There were really only two choices and they were replace the engines or rescind the sale and the latter was not going to happen. Only if you purchased it and had it in a state with a boat lemon law and very few have such. You like the boat. Volvo is addressing the problem. That's about as good as it could be. I don't think you're talking a year or even close. My guess would be 90 days, but it may require you staying on top of it to make that happen.

What do they have to do to remove the engines and install the new? I don't know what size hatches you have.
 
I once had a problem with a Volvo company car rusting.
I discovered later I wasn't the only one to have this problem.
We had 15 Volvo trucks and an outboard at the time and when I asked Volvo if they would remedy the fault they refused point blank, even to repaint the car.
When I explained the amount of money we spent with them every year they still refused point blank.
Naturally all the Volvo products were traded quickly as we switched to other marques.
Volvo begged us to reconsider and offered many 'sweeteners' but we never bought anything Volvo again.
Your very very lucky to get a long block out of them.
 
Engines Replaced!

Well, Volvo replaced both engines with new "bob tails" this week, completely under warranty.
Very happy with how everything was handled.
 

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What a bad experience but I'm very pleased that Volvo has stepped up to the plate, as they certainly could have done otherwise.

Backing up a moment. You said a stock boat with 30 hours on it in November 2012 when you took possession. Had it never been registered or titled? How did it get 30 hours?

Why do I ask? A lot can happen in the first 30 hours of engine use. Go out and run them for long periods at WOT or don't vary the speed or any number of other things contrary to appropriate break-in procedures. Now, you'd think most of that would show up in other ways, but who knows. I also suspect yours are not the only time Volvo has encountered this issue, but they may not know why either.

Do be careful with the new engines and very carefully follow break in recommendations from the owner's manual. Hopefully, you'll have a long enjoyable time with them.

I compliment Volvo, but I also compliment you on your handling of this. You made it easy for them to do the right thing. You approached them in a non-confrontational way, doing what was necessary to give them the chance to respond honorably. You didn't assume they would refuse to help you, but gave them the benefit of the doubt as long as they didn't show themselves not to deserve it. Fortunately, they never showed that. Instead, they worked with you. They're out a lot of dollars, you're out a lot of time and pleasure. You both had a very unpleasant situation, but it would have been a whole lot worse had either you or them not responded in the manner you did.
 
That`s a feather in Volvo`s cap! They get flak on TF for parts price/availability,but that`s support.
"You mess up, you fix up" is a good rule. And they did.
 
Yes, well handled all round. We say 'Volvo' as its just one entity but of course its the local dealer/manager representing Volvo that is in the hot seat, or who is the primary influencer for your experience. Hopefully the manager involved in this case gets wide recognition within the Volvo organisation for doing the right thing and inspires his peers to always do the same.
 
The 30 hours of run-time came in 2012 when she was dealer stock. I'm pretty sure that during those hours she was closely supervised by the sales folks, who knew about proper break-in.

The engines had a 2 year warranty and we continually updated (in writing) the dealer and local mechanic, both in Annapolis, about the oil consumption. It was in our 19th month, during our trip to Florida, that I really raised the red flag about the situation. I was adding oil every 8-10 hours! The dealer then put me in touch with Volvo headquarters in Chesapeake, Va., who then delegated to their service rep in SW Florida.

Once it became clear that BOTH engines were consuming inordinate amounts of oil Volvo committed to replace the "long blocks". Then, in a lucky twist, Volvo informed me that due to some EPA restriction on importing long blocks from Sweden I was going to get new "bob tails", which, as I understand, come completely outfitted with new peripheral equipment, like starters, alternators, belts- everything!

Looking back, I don't see this as any great inconvenience; rather, it was quite a learning experience. Yes, I have certainly invested scores of hours, from checking dipsticks to the final sea trial, but, after all, nothing beats "messing around on boats"!
 
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From what I read, hear and see... you are a lucky guy to have Volvo act so responsibly. Also, congrats on your demeanor that assisted in Volvo's responsible actions.


You've a great attitude!


Art
 
Reading this post and seeing the comments about the Audi consuming a quart of oil in 3000 miles reminds me of the days when General Motors used to claim that oil consumption of a quart in 800 miles being acceptable! :eek::eek::eek::eek:
Lots of engines consume some oil, some are more prone to the issue than others. I'm glad to see Volvo stepping up to the plate in this case as it was pretty clear that something was amiss.
Bruce
 
Bruce B said:
Reading this post and seeing the comments about the Audi consuming a quart of oil in 3000 miles reminds me of the days when General Motors used to claim that oil consumption of a quart in 800 miles being acceptable! :eek::eek::eek::eek:
Lots of engines consume some oil, some are more prone to the issue than others. I'm glad to see Volvo stepping up to the plate in this case as it was pretty clear that something was amiss.
Bruce
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The 2001 Corvette ZO6(LS6 engine) was an oil burner. And GM claimed that a quart every 1000 miles was "normal".

Anyway, glad everything turned out well!!! And it is not uncommon for boats to accumulate hours while in dealer inventory. They take them to shows and basically just ride around and show the boat. 30 hours is actually a little on the low side. I have seen a boat with 200 hours that had never been titled. It was a 39 ft Island Gypsy. Boat ended up being sold for $150k. It was a few years old...it got caught up in a bankruptcy....and the bank fire sold it. That was the steal of the century!!!
 
The 30 hours of run-time came in 2012 when she was dealer stock. I'm pretty sure that during those hours she was closely supervised by the sales folks, who knew about proper break-in.
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My suspicion is exactly opposite yours. those salesmen were trying to sell boats and running fast is a big part of that. I see new boats being delivered to boat shows every year never seen them running slow.
 
bayview said:
My suspicion is exactly opposite yours. those salesmen were trying to sell boats and running fast is a big part of that. I see new boats being delivered to boat shows every year never seen them running slow.
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This brings up an interesting subject. Break in strategy.
What does Volvo say about break in? I know that on my Ram truck with a Cummins 6.7 there is no engine break in required. Ram wanted you to put on 500 miles before towing so that other components of the truck could break in but the manual specifically says no break in required for the engine.
We have friends with an American Tug 34 who were given specific instructions from the Cummins rep who familiarized them with the engine to run it fast for 100 hours. Then and only then were they told that they could reduce speed if they wanted. They drove all over the place at speed and they have no issues that I am aware of...
I haven't seen manuals that describe Cummins break in for the boat yet but I am interested in knowing what Cummins says specifically.
Just curious,
Bruce
 
When I had had decades experienced race car machinist rebuild my 1967 Buick Wildcat carbed 430 cid., 360 hp., 500 +/- ft. lb. torque monster engine... He instructed me carefully - Put in 30 wt. non detergent and a pint bottleof special break in lube he supplied. Then start engine and in park for 25 minutes (clocked) hold the engine steady at 2500 rpm. Immediately drain oil and replace with Valvoline 20/50 wt. and 4 oz ZDDP. Drive 500 miles under normal conditions but not over 65 mph... with no set speed held for over 1/2 hr. at a time. Drain oil and replace with same Valvoline and 4 oz. ZDDP. Drive 1000 miles at normal speeds. Drain and replace same lube mix/brands again. Then - Go For IT!!! Man is she ever a power crazy runner. I change oil every 2.5K mi... never uses more than 1/4 qt. between changes. Of course filters always changed too.


Only item that initially gave me trouble was the Rochester Quadrajet carb's internals. Got the once over from a carb expert... then... when that was straightened out fast acceleration is what I like!


PS: Having recently been appraised [in a thread] of "Militech" lubrication enhancer I'm very interested to learn more before placing it into any of my many classic aged engines... all w/ flat tappets. So far I like what I hear!
 
Brand new horizontally opposed airplane engines(like the O360 in a C172) they want you to run the damn thing WIDE OPEN for the first 25 hours. We would get an airplane with a new engine and they would throw us the keys. I have to say....it was a little unnerving and noisy as hell!!!
 
Deere and Lugger want you to run hard during break-in. The guideline is more than 50% load, for more than 50% of the time for the first 100 (or maybe it's 50) hrs. Supposedly the rings don't seat properly unless there is high enough cylinder pressure. But these are all continuous duty engines, so the rules might be different compared to a similar engine with a higher HP rating like the volvo.
 
IMO some hard running is required for proper break in. How hard and is hard is the question as is the duty cycle.

Salesmen are not usually shy about pushing it.
 
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The Volvo mechanic said the following regarding break-in:

1) run normally except be sure to vary the rpms every 10-15 minutes
2) change the oil and filter at 50 hours

Not much else was said.
 
rclarke246 said:
The Volvo mechanic said the following regarding break-in:

1) run normally except be sure to vary the rpms every 10-15 minutes
2) change the oil and filter at 50 hours

Not much else was said.
Click to expand...

Here is Volvo's break in instruction.

Running in
The engine must be “run in” during its first 10 hours,
as follows:

Use the engine in normal operation. Full load should only be applied for short periods. Never run the engine for a long period of time at constant speed during this period.

Higher oil consumption is normal during the running in period. For this reason, check the oil level more frequently than normally recommended.

After the first period of operation, the specified warranty inspection “First service inspection” can be done. For more information: Please refer to the Maintenance Schedule.
​

And this is the first service inspection.

First service inspection, after 20–50 running hours
Coolant level and antifreeze mixture I
Drive belt (tension) I
Seawater filter I C
Drive-unit, oil level I
Corrosion protection (space between IPS-housing and clamping ring) I
Instrument panel function I

Start and warm up engine
Inspection with VODIA (Diagnostic Tool) I
Engine and transmission, oil / fuel / water leakage I
Engine and transmission, abnormal noises I

Stop Engine
Engine Oil and Oil Filters / By-pass filter R
Restart engine

Oil pressure / oil leakage I
1) Or within 180 days of the date of delivery, or the end of the first season, whichever comes first.​

They should have done that initial service before you purchased it and not told you to do it at 50 hours.

No way to know how it was run during those 30 hours or if it had any role in this. I'm convinced that Volvo experienced this problem on more than your engines so likely not from any care or operation.

I'm going to toss in one more comment. Often we criticize Volvo and much is over price and acquisition of parts. Well, on the inland lakes Volvo I/O's are extremely popular and there are dealers who provide excellent service. Many feel them to be superior to Mercruiser. I owned both and had no issues with either.

When it comes to diesels in the US, they are the "other brand." Fewer knowledgeable mechanics, in fewer boats, and, not surprisingly, fewer parts available. Still, I've seen other examples of responsiveness. In Europe, where they are more mainstream, they're highly regarded.
 
rclarke246 said:
The 30 hours of run-time came in 2012 when she was dealer stock. I'm pretty sure that during those hours she was closely supervised by the sales folks, who knew about proper break-in.

The engines had a 2 year warranty and we continually updated (in writing) the dealer and local mechanic, both in Annapolis, about the oil consumption. It was in our 19th month, during our trip to Florida, that I really raised the red flag about the situation. I was adding oil every 8-10 hours! The dealer then put me in touch with Volvo headquarters in Chesapeake, Va., who then delegated to their service rep in SW Florida.

Once it became clear that BOTH engines were consuming inordinate amounts of oil Volvo committed to replace the "long blocks". Then, in a lucky twist, Volvo informed me that due to some EPA restriction on importing long blocks from Sweden I was going to get new "bob tails", which, as I understand, come completely outfitted with new peripheral equipment, like starters, alternators, belts- everything!

Looking back, I don't see this as any great inconvenience; rather, it was quite a learning experience. Yes, I have certainly invested scores of hours, from checking dipsticks to the final sea trial, but, after all, nothing beats "messing around on boats"!
Click to expand...

Here is a question, would Volvo and Beneteau stick with the hopefully positive outcome if this were a used boat (2nd owner) but still in the warranty period? Were there specific serial numbers that were deemed problematic by Volvo?

How about crossing international borders, say I bought this specific low hour vessel in Europe and wanted to bring it to the US? Inquiring and curious minds----?
 
Be thankful for insurance. Closer inspection should reveal additional hatch covers are removable.
 
Ski in NC said:
How do you run the boat? Planed out or trawler speed? If you run trawler speed, the rings may have never had a chance to seat in.

24oz is a good bit of oil to use in 15hrs, but not horrible. I'd be pee'd off if a new boat burned that much. But the fix is going to be very disruptive for what? A few bucks worth of oil a travel day?

Maybe make a deal with Volvo where you accept the burn rate in exchange for an increase in warranty period.
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I would say it's horrible, especially for a new boat that someone paid good money for. He would be adding oil every other day on a cruise. And if he forgot, it could ruin the engine.

My engine (Volvo) has over 4K hours on it and burns no oil between changes. That's how it's supposed to be.
 
BandB said:
Here is Volvo's break in instruction.

Running in
The engine must be “run in” during its first 10 hours,
as follows:

Use the engine in normal operation. Full load should only be applied for short periods. Never run the engine for a long period of time at constant speed during this period.

Higher oil consumption is normal during the running in period. For this reason, check the oil level more frequently than normally recommended.

After the first period of operation, the specified warranty inspection “First service inspection” can be done. For more information: Please refer to the Maintenance Schedule.
.​
Click to expand...


I think this is probably the break-in procedures for most engines in the last 100 years, excluding those already mentioned that need WOT.

And also agree that there is probably more than meets the eye here with Volvo. As others have mentioned, just to change the engine for oil consumption is a bit extreme. More likely, some other issue, maybe emissions or even that long time to drain oil into pan, probably is indicative of internal issues that Volvo knows will not go away.​
 
It surprises me (It doesn't really) that a post about Volvo stepping up and replacing defective engines can be turned into a Volvo bashing post by some people. :rolleyes:

The OP had a problem, Volvo checked on the problem and decided the best fix was to replace the engines. For any other manufacturer, that would have been the end of it.

From Volvo's point of view, there are two concerns:
1) Resolve the issues at the least expense to the company.
2) Make the customer happy.

Apparently, replacing the engines is less expensive than trying to fix the problems. For me, that would be what I would prefer.

And the suggestion of Volvo replacing the engines with another brand is beyond ridiculous. Way beyond ridiculous. :banghead:
 
WesK said:
It surprises me (It doesn't really) that a post about Volvo stepping up and replacing defective engines can be turned into a Volvo bashing post by some people. :rolleyes:

The OP had a problem, Volvo checked on the problem and decided the best fix was to replace the engines. For any other manufacturer, that would have been the end of it.

From Volvo's point of view, there are two concerns:
1) Resolve the issues at the least expense to the company.
2) Make the customer happy.

Apparently, replacing the engines is less expensive than trying to fix the problems. For me, that would be what I would prefer.

And the suggestion of Volvo replacing the engines with another brand is beyond ridiculous. Way beyond ridiculous. :banghead:
Click to expand...

There may be some bashing in the thread but I think the general attitude has been complimenting them. I do think there are questions though as to whether they experienced the issue more widely that tie to their agreeing to replace.

As to whether this discussion would have ensued on any other engine, I believe it absolutely would have the same. I've seen discussions very similar to this on nearly all manufacturers. The greatest CAT lover I know will warn about certain issues and engines they built.

Volvo definitely did all the right things in this case. Now, if I was about to purchase the same boat with the same engines, I'd be very careful and observant. Especially if built about the same time. That's because we don't know the cause of failure. It could be Volvo was experiencing some issues, it could be improper break in, and it could be just one of those random things. Ultimately, companies do prove themselves more by how they handle problems than how they deal when everything is going right. So, in this case I'd give these two engines D's, but give Volvo's response an A+. The handling was great but doesn't erase the fact there was a problem.
 
Volvo has been around for a very long time and this wouldn't be the case if they made bad products or didn't stand behind their products. They continue to be a major player in the marine engine field.
 
WesK said:
Volvo has been around for a very long time and this wouldn't be the case if they made bad products or didn't stand behind their products. They continue to be a major player in the marine engine field.
Click to expand...

I think I stated much the same earlier in the thread. However, all engine builders at times make products below their normal standards and have issues. Volvo has earned their fans and their critics and both have very good reasons. I think most of the praise is valid and most of the criticism is as well.
 
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