Replacing tempered glass cost DIY

I have been pricing a piece 36" by 28" by 1/4" thick with rounded corners for one of my forward windows.
Prices are all over the place, from $79 to $300!

Cheapest place is Goodman Glass in Hampton Va, local to me.

Anyone know of a cheaper source? So far that is where I am going to get this.

I am making the central forward window hinged so it can open, so I made a teak frame to hold this new piece of glass.

Why not laminated safety glass? That's what's in my boat.

I have 3 forward windows. The 2 on each side are OEM tempered. The center window was laminated, so I suppose a PO replaced the center with laminated.
Tempered is stronger. Price for tempered is $9 more.
I broke the laminated piece getting it out, when I removed and resealed the tempered glass, it did not break. And the laminated on the edge had developed bubbles. Goodman glass says if laminated glass is not sealed on the edges it will do that.

I have a variety of laminated and tempered on the side windows. The OEM glass in the rear doors is tempered.

Album of the window frame I am making
https://goo.gl/photos/hULcFYnvU5rX1UmB6

I obtained the teak from a 1968 Egg Harbor 37 being crushed at the marina. These are 1" thick teak boards had been used in the rear deck.
I did some resawing, shaping, sanding.
I drilled 2 holes in each corner of the frame and glued in 1/4" by 2.5" SS threaded rod.
The glue I used is PL Premium, some mixed with teak sanding dust. And it sticks well to the teak.

It has a 1" overlap all around. The top SS hinge, I will put a piece of PVC fabric to keep out the rain. I will also put some fuzzy stick on door seal on the boat's frame to help keep out water.

Outside will be painted, inside will be bright clear sealed. I plan to leave the brown look, no bleaching to yellow, which is a better match for the interior woodwork.

At the top in the frame will be mounted a wiper motor, so It will lift up with the window.

Only a tablesaw I used and various sanders. These are front side views, the backside is rabbeted to fit into the original boat window frame.

This center window was much larger than the 2 side windows, so wont be missing a few inches of viewable area taken up by the wood in this glass frame. It is sitting on the broken laminated glass I took out, so was good to use as a template.

Any decent glass shop can make up - have made up for you - tempered or laminated glass. Various thicknesses and tints are available. Not terribly expensive.

I'll be doing the glass in front of my helm; it's laminated and foggy around the perimeter due to chronic leaks. I'll also be replacing the previously-replaced-with-tinted-acrylic sliding side window.

I've used Glenside Glass, near Philly, for years. Mirrors, tempered glass, insulated glass. Glenside Glass (No, I do not own stock...)

Laminated for windshields, even best for sides; tempered will shatter to a million pieces while laminated may survive a direct hit. Think storms and accidents where something hits your windows. Try dropping a tempered juice glass on the tiled floor of your kitchen - shards will hit all 4 walls. There is no place for tempered on my boat.

Run a bead of paint around the perimeter of the glass when you install it or just replace it again when you repaint your windows sometime in the future.

We replaced the 6 salon windows with 3/8 laminated safty glass which is what we took out. We replaced withllaminate safty as we have tried to replace as original and since the eagle is a long range coastal we wanted the windows coastal rated. They are tinted dark bronze to reduce the sun light and privacy. The hardest part was removing the teak frames. True Pacific northwesteners have an aversion to bright sun light.

DHeckrotte said:

Any decent glass shop can make up - have made up for you - tempered or laminated glass. Various thicknesses and tints are available. Not terribly expensive.

I'll be doing the glass in front of my helm; it's laminated and foggy around the perimeter due to chronic leaks. I'll also be replacing the previously-replaced-with-tinted-acrylic sliding side window.

I've used Glenside Glass, near Philly, for years. Mirrors, tempered glass, insulated glass. Glenside Glass (No, I do not own stock...)

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Exactly why I don't like laminated glass, the edges get foggy and bubbles form. Whether that is preventable, dont know. Every piece of laminated glass I have seen with some age on has done that.

I had a tempered side window shatter all by itself. It was from 1970.
I slid the window and it shattered. Those windows have white plastic flat handles secured with brass bolts into holes drilled in the glass. My guess was the bolt set off the cracking event. Maybe they should have a tiny rubber grommet in the glass hole.

My 2 side front windows are tempered and have some scratches. They have a hard life over 45 years so far they are ok.

Y'all are right about tempered glass exploding into shards. Safe shards, but what a mess! Here's a fireplace door I made. Had the glass made by Glenside. Made the hinges and hardware myself. Getting the hinges to align proved a little more difficult and exciting than I'd expected. Made the screens and re-made the grate, too. Modified a trash-picked commercial kitchen oven door into the ash-tray. Did not make the andirons.

Xsbank said:

Laminated for windshields, even best for sides; tempered will shatter to a million pieces while laminated may survive a direct hit. Think storms and accidents where something hits your windows. Try dropping a tempered juice glass on the tiled floor of your kitchen - shards will hit all 4 walls. There is no place for tempered on my boat.

Run a bead of paint around the perimeter of the glass when you install it or just replace it again when you repaint your windows sometime in the future.

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Brings up a point that I experienced about three years ago.
I was going to let it go but I now I won't - bandwagon effect maybe.

My boat was hit. My stbd. side windows were hit by a sailboat. Blew out one mullion entirely, broke a second mullion loose from the frame and damaged the frame top and bottom.
My real point is that although two windows were a maze of cracks and splits they stayed in place enough that I was able to duct tape it all together, both sides of the glass, so it was useable. It was difficult to see through in any measure but the taped up glass held for another two weeks as we made our way home.
Had it been tempered there would have been nothing to tape.
I realize the tempered is stronger by quite a bit but if broken it will turn into tiny pebbles.

Your choice of course and hopefully my experience is never yours but there is a reason for the safety glass.

try Danny's

sdowney717 said:

I have been pricing a piece 36" by 28" by 1/4" thick with rounded corners for one of my forward windows.
Prices are all over the place, from $79 to $300!

Cheapest place is Goodman Glass in Hampton Va, local to me.

Anyone know of a cheaper source? So far that is where I am going to get this.

I am making the central forward window hinged so it can open, so I made a teak frame to hold this new piece of glass.

Click to expand...

I am rebidding all my forward windows on my OA 456. I broke a laminated window, about 30 by 30 after removing it. Danny's remade one, while I waited, for $120. I now realize it was high, but quick.

Gordon

Try getting quotes without the rounded corners. That makes it custom size. Easy to square off the corners in the frame.
Ed

I want the radiused corners as it will better match the look of the other forward windows.
I ordered window yesterday, total cost includes tax $85 at Goodman Glass.
I will have it early next week.

Goodman will do laminated glass in their shop. I read you can have tempered glass with the plastic lamination.

That Goodman Glass has a hard time relaying instructions to the glass shop!
I clearly showed with a pattern and dimensions the corner radius.
The first glass come in with a chip, so they rejected it.
The second glass comes in with a huge radius cut, so was rejected.
When talking to the counter person, he said my instructions confused the people at the glass shop.
However, I think the counter guy is kinda slow, I could tell when ordering the glass. He was supposed to email them my dimensions and I think he did not, so they called him and he told them a 2.125 " radius corners.

Thing is my drawing, has a circle diameter of 2.125" corners.
A diameter of a circle is not a radius of a circle. We discussed this when I ordered the glass. And I was very very very clear on the drawing and also said all 4 corners to match identically each other.

So if you use these people, be prepared for a difficult time if the glass is anything but straight lines.
I just called today and glass will supposedly be in next wednesday.
The glass cut with the wrong radius I can have for free. What to do with it, maybe make a table...

Sdowney,

I had to replace two of the five front windows I re-bedded last week. One laminated and one tempered. The tempered exploded in my hand. It replaced it with laminated. I used Danny's in Tabb and got replacements while I waited. I made a template for the tempered glass which was irregularly shaped. The window fit first time like it was made for it.

Gordon

Gordon J said:

Sdowney,

I had to replace two of the five front windows I re-bedded last week. One laminated and one tempered. The tempered exploded in my hand. It replaced it with laminated. I used Danny's in Tabb and got replacements while I waited. I made a template for the tempered glass which was irregularly shaped. The window fit first time like it was made for it.

Gordon

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Yes, thanks, at the time I had a sense they would screw up the corners.

Danny's is $110 and Goodmans is $79, so will wait again and see if they can deliver. At some point you have to give up and go to someone who can deliver.

I had a tempered window explode on the boat years ago, sounded like a gun going off, a real shock. But that was one of 18 pieces of glass windows that never have exploded, most of the glass is 45 years old. I don't even recall doing anything to the glass. I may have slid it shut.

Consider all your car windows except the windshield are all tempered glass. They almost never break. I have been told, tempered glass is much more likely to crack from blows on its edges, versus it's faces. My sliding windows have pull handles. And the glass has holes which has brass screws holding the handles, so maybe the rubber grommets are gone. I really should check all the handles. The screws might fracture the edge when pulling the handles.

I suspect either choice, tempered or laminated, is adequate for the job. I don't see myself getting into mountainous, breaking seas with this boat.

The other option I might do is let Goodman make it from laminated in their shop which is $9 cheaper than tempered, if they can not make the glass according to my pattern.
Make it in their own shop means more direct control of the shape I suppose...
Every laminated glass in my experience develops hazy edges with bubbles.
Goodman says they can seal the edge so it won't.

I have been in a few bad seas in the Chesapeake Bay with breaking waves over the bow that hit the windows hard. This is not a boat I take into the ocean.

Chemically toughened glass can bend and not break.
Anyone know about this type?

sdowney717 said:

Chemically toughened glass can bend and not break.
Anyone know about this type?

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Like a lot of things the discussion is a long but interesting one.

All Glass strengthening relies on a similar principle - glass (like concrete) is strong in compression and weak in tension so in order to strengthen one creates a surface layer that is under tension (similar to pre-stressed concrete).
In order for the piece to break you have to first overcome the surface tension before it will break - but when it does many characterize it as an
explosion" - it is in fact a release of that energy that is build into the part.
The weak point in Strengthened glass (any - chemically, tempered, etc) is the edge so you have to be careful when mounting - any point loading has the potential to cause a break. Best practice is to make sure there is clearance all around - use shims if necessary when mounting to center the piece and fill the void with a flexible sealant.

Generally chemically strengthening - which is a surface treatment - is best used on thin sheets. Heat strengthened (tempered) glass can be used on thicker pieces. Generally speaking chemically strengthened pieces are high volume production and the process doesn't lend itself to one-of-a-kind specials.
Cell phones, tablets, some flat panel display (PC, TV's) also have strengthened cover glass.

Ever hear about Gorilla Glass (TM) that's Corning Inc's chemically strengthened glass for cell phone, tablet, display, etc applications.
This came out of an effort back in the 1960's to produce chemically strengthened automotive glass - a market failure at that time but the basic process is back for above uses and it's creaping back in into the hi end auto market.

I spent a career working for Corning Glass and actually made hi performance aircraft windows (B1-Bomber) from chemically strengthened glass back in the 70's and tempered windows for the space shuttle...as well as many other interesting products & projects.

Here are a few links for addn'l info for those interested

Glass Fabrication Technologies

Chemical Strengthening vs. Heat Strengthening of Glass Substrates

How Tough is Gorilla Glass

A Day Made of Glass 1 & 2 - pretty interesting stuff - this is all possible today not furturistic sci-fi stuff.

No doubt more than you expected - be careful what you ask

Edit: Laminating doesn't add significant strength but it does prevent pieces (shards) of glass form becoming projectiles and causing injuries - hence the use of laminated glass in auto windshields (and the frequent breakage /repair / replacement of windshields)

The world may run on oil but glass allows us to see where we're going...

I rebedded all 7 Pilothouse windows during the spring of 2015. While doing this, I replaced the 3 front windows (lami-glass) as the internal plastic was beginning to fog, and it was a reasonable $80/piece. The glass shop preferred either a template or the original glass. They said that they would not guarantee fits if they didn't have either a template or the glass. I had to replace one of the tinted side windows and it was a bit of an issue as they had to send it out, so it took a week. The non-tinted front panes were available in a couple of hours.

A fellow KK42 owner had a shipwright rebed his 3 front windows and he spent $5,000!

Concerns about using tempered glass.

Our boat Freedom has very large saloon windows and while cruising I had real concerns about using tempered glass. Yes it is much stronger but if broken you literally have a gaping hole where the window was which was unacceptable when we were cruising the California and Mexico coast and occasionally had to deal with heavy seas. I had two broken windows while cruising and was thankful that the existing glass was laminated as a bit of duct tape helped us keep the integrity of the window until we could get to a location where we could get replacement glass. Now that we are back in the San Francisco Bay and Delta area I would not be so concerned definitely safety glass for me when in open ocean

Well some hope about getting the window made. After 3 attempts to follow directions at which they failed making huge radius sweeps, or glass was sent from them with chips, they told me I must make a full size pattern. They will trace my pattern onto their brown paper sheet and send that into the glass shop friday.

Here is my original instructions, it seems clear to me, yet they kept making 2" radius cuts on the corners.

A circle placed against a square, you think shows is obvious what you want, and the sales counter guy agrees with me, he says the glass shop can not understand this diagram.

And here is my complete full size pattern, which even they can't mess up, ya think?

I have not glued in little teak curves into the frame as I was waiting to see how the glass fit.

I will give them one last try, then have to go elsewhere. Will know by next wednesday.

Goodman has 2 glass shops that can make tempered glass, the one screwing up is called TruLight? in NC.

I have my reasons for using toughened glass, I fully understand the issues. All my other boat glass is toughened glass as OEM. It has served fine since 1970.

I did read commercial boats expecting foul weather put lexan covers over their toughened glass windows on ocean voyages, etc.... Just what I read, no personal experience, so don't rag on me about it.

The ultimate window choice would be laminated toughened glass very expensive I am sure.
Getting the old laminated glass out of the frame it easily cracked and broke, normal glass is very weak being two 1/8 sheets laminated together.

I have been able to remove toughened glass without it breaking.

Still no glass! I was told glass would be in today, but the guy says it was not on the truck.
So I ask will it be in on friday?, and he says no, friday is a holiday. SO I say ok, maybe next week? And he says maybe.

I sort of sense the tempering shop since they screwed up so many times, don't want to deal with me anymore. Goodman is the man in the middle.
I blame them both for not being able to deliver the glass.

My idea is wait till end of next week, then call on the following monday, ask about the glass again, and if still getting dumb responses, get a refund and go elsewhere.

And I will have to make a new pattern since who knows what happened to the one I gave them.

This has been an awful lousy experience.

I gave up, went in and got a cash refund.
He keeps telling me the glass will come in, I tell him I don't believe him, because he kept saying it would come in and it never does. I am not calling the guy a liar I told him. Just that for now I have no confidence the other glass tempering company has any intentions of getting me my glass, this one would be the third piece they would make the other 2 being defective. He says he had called the glass maker after sending them the pattern where it was and was told by the glass maker they LOST track of the pattern I had made, but then they found it again which was why again another delay.

So Goodman guy says he called this company again later and was told the glass would be on last friday's truck to the shop, but of course it never shows up. Then Goodman guy calls last friday telling them it was not on the truck and the glass maker says it will be on today's monday truck and of course it was not. So the Goodman guy says well they sometimes lose track of items on the truck and it does not get off loaded as the truck is full of glass and they miss it.

So I got money back, and the Goodman guy is telling me the glass will be in this wednesday, and If I don't come in and get they will have to eat the cost and destroy it.

What kinda crazy business is going on you think!

I did bring him another small mirror job and Goodman guy says he will do it for free. And come back wednesday the mirror will be done and my window glass will be in.

I have driven to the shop 3 times and called about 3 times with a lot of weird broken promises, so sort of a time waster, but I will get a free mirror.

Sorry to hear of your troubles.
Sometimes no matter what is done things go amazingly awry.
Hope you get it sorted out.

C lectric said:

Sorry to hear of your troubles.
Sometimes no matter what is done things go amazingly awry.
Hope you get it sorted out.

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I did finally. I went to the shop and got refunded and took the glass made wrong.
I also got a free mirror.

The teak frame I made, the glass did not fit the corners. I made small teak pieces to fill in all 4 corners to accommodate the 2" radius corners which were too big.

However it does now match the corner radius of the other front windows. I just did not want to work that hard...and was worried the epoxy these little pieces might fall off the teak seeing it is an oily wood. I cleaned the small inside corner teak pieces using rubbing alcohol and used some teak dust and epoxy mix. They seemed to glue tight together.

I am coating the outside of the wood with Black PL polyurethane, like 5200 but cheaper cost. This will be hand block wet sanded then filled with sandable primer till smooth and get painted with Topside white boat paint.
I have coated black PL in lots of places under the paint. Imagine having a rubber sheet under your paint. Seeing the boat is wood, this helps seal wood to keep it dry. Never had any paint failures doing this.

So the best thing of all this trouble is I got a free window glass and mirror.

Not a great picture. I hand sanded dry, smoothed the rubber a little.
Then I used a 3 inch putty knife to slather on several layers of Zinsser primer to fill in the low spots. Sanded and now have brush coats on.
Will sand again and then ready for Topside white gloss paint after cleaning the glass of excess paint.

Glass is glued into the teak frame. I used Loctite Black PL which is similar to 5200 or Sikaflex to secure the glass. I have done several windows using Black PL and it has been working to keep a good water seal.

Got the priming done on the outside facing frame.


Showing the small teak corners I shaped and epoxied to allow the glass to fit the frame.
One advantage, these corners make the frame a little stronger. The frame is doweled together with two 5/16 SS sections of threaded rod, so it was plenty solid anyway.