Reciprocals, do you use them?

Our Yacht Club on Lake Ontario has reciprocal agreements with 70 other clubs on the great lakes. We also accept long range cruisers and loopers as long as they belong to a club that may offer a similar privilege to one of our members. We have given free slips to boats as far away as England, Florida and Newport CA as our charter does not allow us to charge a visitor.
Neither will we turn away any vessel seeking refuge in a storm. We can accept any vessel up to 47' LOA for up to 3 days at no charge.
Fairport Yacht Club, www.fairportyachtclub.ca is a unique club where we actually own the land underwater and each slip is individually owned by the member in a dockominium format.

If you belong to a Yacht Club, what is your Club policy?

We do have reciprocal deals with local clubs in the NE Florida area and also accept transients at 1:25 per foot.

I joined a Yacht Club here on the Columbia River just so I could use reciprocals in the Puget Sound area. Never used it. We paid our dues for this year 2016-2017, but the Admiral and I are thinking of just venturing out without a club membership.


The two main clubs in the area are the Victoria and Seattle Yacht clubs. They made it very clear to us that reciprocals are not honored and to stay "the hell OFF" their out stations.

What do you mean by an "out station?"

Our yacht club has two 100' guest docks available for recips, for up to three days at no charge, providing visitors make reservations as guest docking is in high demand.

Many yacht clubs in the PNW have out stations, they are moorage owned or leased by the club at locations other than there home club facilities. At these locations they do not offer reciprocal benefits as there docking facility is usually limited. Our club has reciprocal privileges with over 90 other clubs as space permits.

This year we used about 14 days of reciprocal with other clubs. Some of our members go on holidays and use 3 to 4 weeks of reciprocal, makes for cheap holidays!

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

I joined a Yacht Club here on the Columbia River just so I could use reciprocals in the Puget Sound area. Never used it. We paid our dues for this year 2016-2017, but the Admiral and I are thinking of just venturing out without a club membership.


The two main clubs in the area are the Victoria and Seattle Yacht clubs. They made it very clear to us that reciprocals are not honored and to stay "the hell OFF" their out stations.

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The clubs on the Salish Sea have a generous reciprocal policy but none extend those privileges to their out stations. Reciprocal privileges are a courtesy that the clubs in the region have extended to each other. It is something that members should avail themselves of, but not abuse. Keep in mind that the nature of the system is inherent in the name it goes by, "reciprocal ".

I've used reciprocals in the Portland area, at Umatilla, OR and at Friday Harbor. Our club extends the privilege to visiting boats and can accept 100' boats without problem. We only have 30A power available so for some that is a limiting factor. This summer we had a boat from Portland visit. They couldn't use our 30A power so one of our members called me to see if I have the adapter that plugs into two 30's to create 50. I did and let them borrow it for a few days.

menzies said:

What do you mean by an "out station?"

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To tie in with Mike as he stated some clubs maintain a dock outside their areas. I think Seattle Yacht Club has a dock somewhere in Desolation sound and Victoria Yacht Club has docks in Garden Bay (Pender Harbor).

We used approx. 20 reciprocal nights a couple of summers ago. That summer we spent three months cruising the "South Sound", so there were plenty of opportunities to grab a reciprocal. At an average of $60/night we saved about $1,200 in moorage fees. Our Port Townsend Yacht Club dues are $150/year. A very good deal! (Plus we do things with the club that are a lot of fun, too...)

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

To tie in with Mike as he stated some clubs maintain a dock outside their areas. I think Seattle Yacht Club has a dock somewhere in Desolation sound and Victoria Yacht Club has docks in Garden Bay (Pender Harbor).

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I am a member at both Seattle and Royal Victoria. Seattle maintains 10 outstations, Royal Victoria has 2. Royal Vancouver also has 10 outstations. Like all other clubs in the Salish Sea, they maintain the outstations for use by members only. I am not aware of any club that opens it's outstations to non-members.

All three clubs have reciprocal docks at their home stations. And maintain a long list of clubs from around the world that are part of their reciprocal privileges. These docks all have power available as well as showers in a comfortable, secure setting.

Benefit

I have been a member of a yacht club in the past. It really depends on what reciprocals the club has as to weather you use them. We did, same story it paid for our dues and we had a great time exploring new places!

Yes, and no. We don't ask for free docking, just for them to let us dock. We do mention that we're members elsewhere and sometimes they then say no charge. Our biggest desire is to be able to dock and use other facilities and typically their rates are very reasonable for transients. Florida Council of Yacht Clubs has many members, but few we've chosen to frequent. Florida memberships don't go far in the PNW and Great Lakes, but typically will get you the courtesy of paid dockage.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

To tie in with Mike as he stated some clubs maintain a dock outside their areas. I think Seattle Yacht Club has a dock somewhere in Desolation sound and Victoria Yacht Club has docks in Garden Bay (Pender Harbor).

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Just to confuse things, Tom,
RVYC (the Royal Victoria Yacht Club Tom referenced) has an outstation in Long Harbour, Saltspring Island. I am not a member, and don't know if they also have others. They don't have anything official in Desolation Sound, although for a few years they had an informal presence at Elworthy Island in Waddington Channel where several of their members owned and maintained a water system and they maintained a trail to an unnamed lake on West Redonda Island.

RVYC The Royal VANCOUVER Yacht Club, of which I am a member, has 7 outstations, from Long Harbour, Saltspring Island, in the south, to Cortez Bay, in Desolation Sound. For several years this club had a small presence in Shawl Bay, in the Broughtons.

SYC (Seattle Yacht Club) has outstations in several locations in BC, notably across from the RVYC stations in Garden Bay and Cortez Bay, in Ganges Harbour, and several places in the San Juan Islands.

RVYC has reciprocal arrangements with a large number of other clubs, world wide. Visitors to Vancouver, who are membbers of any of the reciprocating clubs will get good moorage in downtown Vancouver for 2 nights at no charge. No reciprocals are allowed at any of the RVYC outstations.

How do these outstation work. Do they buy the land and establish a dock?

There are many kinds of outstations. Seattle's range from Port Madison and Henry Island which have dock space for 40 to 50 boats as well as uplands with amenities. At the other end of the scale, they have Ovens Island, approximately 250' of dock with no power or water. With the exception of Ovens Island, all have on site caretakers. Some are just dock space at an existing marina.
RVic has an outstation in Long Harbour. A house with docks out front. There is also an outstation in Friday Harbor which is the end of "C" dock.
As a member, these are tremendous assets. They are free (or 'included') to members. But the members bear the cost as part of their dues.

So do they buy the land and establish a dock. Do they lease dockage at other locations?

How do they create these outstations.

menzies said:

How do these outstation work. Do they buy the land and establish a dock?

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Just as you suppose.

Ours have been acquired over several decades. In every case the YC would be driven by the wants of the membership. So far, other than giving up the shared facilities at Shawl Bay, the RVYC has not divested itself of any true outstation. To the contrary, we are always on the lookout for another, should circumstances allow.

Our club is located on the south end of Lake Washington in Seattle. We have reciprocal privileges with about 70 other clubs in Puget Sound and Canada, from Olympia to Nanaimo. We often use them when space is available, it cuts down on traveling costs. While our club does not have it's own marina, our club house is located at a private marina and we have about 80 feet of reciprocal moorage available for visitors on the end of one of the docks. We're too small to have any outstations.

Wow, I just checked the two outstations on Saltspring Island and they are bigger than our whole club facilities.

Florida council of YCs has reciprocity with about 40 clubs in the state. First night is usually free.
When travelling most clubs that are members of the registry of clubs will extend welcome to out of area club members. terms vary, often with discounted, but no free nights. A letter of introduction from your home club and calling ahead works best.

http://www.ycaol.com/reciproc.htmest.

menzies said:

So do they buy the land and establish a dock. Do they lease dockage at other locations?

How do they create these outstations.

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It varies. Many older and more established clubs have purchased land and built facilities. Other times they simply lease dockage. How they are created would depend on the opportunities presented. My club, Tacoma Yacht Club, has 7 outstations. 2 of them are on property owned by the club. The other 5 are leased space from marinas or other clubs.

Unfortunately for me there are no yacht clubs nearby so there is not a reason to join one. My boat is 1.5 hours from me which is the closest suitable water access and that area's club went defunct about 25 years ago.

We did happen upon the Marco Island Yacht Club last year though when we had an engine issue on our way to the Dry Tortugas. It was the only place that had a slip open and they were happy to accept us even without a membership.

So interesting subject. It appears there is a group of folks that go from dock to dock. Although I understand it as I did exactly that when I first started cruising up north.

We now prefer to anchor now over dockage.


Just to be clear no caretaker ever told me to "stay the hell off" I was told this in Pender Harbor by another person at a restaurant and we were discussing some of the attitudes of some yacht clubs. Some friends of ours were asked to leave a Seattle Yacht Club outstation when they docked up after a very long and rough day. It would seem to me if there is space available, the clubs would welcome non-members for a "fee." The Columbia River Yacht Club (which I am not a member) has a few outstations which are open to anyone with the understanding if a member shows up they have priority to dock space.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

............ It would seem to me if there is space available, the clubs would welcome non-members for a "fee." ...........

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There might be legal or tax reasons they can't do that.

We've docked at many yacht clubs and found them all to be very accommodating and welcoming. We do call ahead, we do ask kindly, we do say thank you. The "clubs" that tend to be less receptive are those that are tied to homeowners or condos or large developments. Ocean Reef, in Key Largo, has a reputation but it's just limited members. There are some there who want no transients. There are others there who realize that every dollar they get from transients is a dollar less they have to put in. I know one condo development north of us that has an ongoing internal battle taking place and has put Loggerhead, which is managing it, in a difficult position. Cat Cay is almost humorous as they'll let you dock (at a very high price) and let you eat at the casual restaurant, but nothing more, no further. Yet, they will try to sell you on buying there. However, you can only see the property when formally toured by one of their agents and after providing information. So there are occasional quirks, but no real problems and we've found clubs to be very welcoming. If full, obviously their members would come first. We've had a couple where we docked at the next marina but they still welcomed us for meals and allowed us to play tennis.

Our two reasons for belonging to a yacht club are tennis and reciprocal. I do think being a member, even of a club that another club has no agreement with, tends to make them more receptive to you. Right or wrong, it gives them the feeling that someone, somewhere, has done some due diligence regarding you and you're ok.

One of the nice things about the two outstations that my club owns (as opposed to ones where they lease some space) is that in they are often very quiet. This is one of the things that the appeals to the members. We can go stay there for a weekend have have some of the advantages of anchoring (ie solitude, quiet, nice scenery etc...) but have some of the same advantages of being at a marina (power, water, showers, etc..). If the outstations were open to reciprocal clubs that solitude would be lost.

There is also the situation that the private outstations aren't manned. There is no one there to collect a fee, ensure that the club rules are followed etc... At one of our outstations, water is very restricted. We don't allow boat washing but only filling water tanks if needed. A non-member may not know the rules or have less inclination to follow the rules if it doesn't impact them.

I was at one of the outstations a few months ago when a boat pulled up to dock. They weren't flying the burgee so another member asked if they were a member. The boater said no but a friend was and they were just docking for a few minutes. Turns out that they simply wanted a convenient place to take their dog for a walk to **** on our lawn (they didn't pick it up). They were politely informed that the outstation was for the sole use of TYC members and they eventually left. The exception for sure, but there are a lot of reason why the clubs don't share their outstations.

Finally, large clubs such as the Seattle Yacht Club have invested a huge amount of money into the purchasing and maintenance of their extensive network of outstations. While I would love to be able to use them as a member of a reciprocal club, I certainly have never paid the SYC their initiation or membership fees for the privilege. Those would amount to much more than any fee they could charge to for using them.

I think what you point out on the outstations is very valid and a reason not to share. Clubs themselves are set up to accommodate people and guests. Outstations are not. I would also have no problem with any club that said they weren't going to allow transients to use their club. Membership paid for it and have the right to limit it in whatever way they choose. I don't interpret that as rudeness, just their choice. Now, I'm happy very few yacht clubs have taken the stance.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

So interesting subject. It appears there is a group of folks that go from dock to dock. Although I understand it as I did exactly that when I first started cruising up north.

We now prefer to anchor now over dockage.


Just to be clear no caretaker ever told me to "stay the hell off" I was told this in Pender Harbor by another person at a restaurant and we were discussing some of the attitudes of some yacht clubs. Some friends of ours were asked to leave a Seattle Yacht Club outstation when they docked up after a very long and rough day. It would seem to me if there is space available, the clubs would welcome non-members for a "fee." The Columbia River Yacht Club (which I am not a member) has a few outstations which are open to anyone with the understanding if a member shows up they have priority to dock space.

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The members who go mainly to the outstations is actually quite small. One of the issues being examined by our club is exactly how many members use these very expensive assets, so how can they be made to best serve the needs of the membership as a whole, not just the few who use them the most.

Outstations form a valuable part of the cruising itinerary. If they are spaced appropriately, a cruise may be planned to take in several along the route, as we try to do when heading to Desolation Sound in the summer. Once we arrive in DS, we tend to anchor out, and increasingly, seek anchorages that are remote enough that we are the only boat there. As there are few watering stops in the DS area, when we are low on water we will try to get to the nearby outstation to get potable water, get rid of garbage, do laundry, get the dog ashore for a decent walk, catch up on wifi, all the things docks are better at than anchorages, but we tend to leave again as soon as those needs are fulfilled.

We also use them as rendezvous with friends, and frequently, by the time we leave again, we have made new friends of the members who happen in while we are there, or who are already present when we arrive.

Our club executive has recently reminded the membership that, while the outstations are reserved exclusively for the use of members, should any mariner be in difficulty and need to tie to one of our outstation docks to stay out of danger or due to a breakdown, they should be accommodated to the extent necessary to see them through that difficulty.

I have never heard of any outsider being told to "Stay the hell off" and I doubt the accuracy of that statement, even though attributed to a rival club. I am sure any advice given to refrain from tying on was given firmly but politely.

"dhays One of the nice things about the two outstations that my club owns (as opposed to ones where they lease some space) is that in they are often very quiet. This is one of the things that the appeals to the members. We can go stay there for a weekend have have some of the advantages of anchoring (ie solitude, quiet, nice scenery etc...) but have some of the same advantages of being at a marina (power, water, showers, etc..). If the outstations were open to reciprocal clubs that solitude would be lost.

There is also the situation that the private outstations aren't manned. There is no one there to collect a fee, ensure that the club rules are followed etc... At one of our outstations, water is very restricted. We don't allow boat washing but only filling water tanks if needed. A non-member may not know the rules or have less inclination to follow the rules if it doesn't impact them.

I was at one of the outstations a few months ago when a boat pulled up to dock. They weren't flying the burgee so another member asked if they were a member. The boater said no but a friend was and they were just docking for a few minutes. Turns out that they simply wanted a convenient place to take their dog for a walk to **** on our lawn (they didn't pick it up). They were politely informed that the outstation was for the sole use of TYC members and they eventually left. The exception for sure, but there are a lot of reason why the clubs don't share their outstations.

Finally, large clubs such as the Seattle Yacht Club have invested a huge amount of money into the purchasing and maintenance of their extensive network of outstations. While I would love to be able to use them as a member of a reciprocal club, I certainly have never paid the SYC their initiation or membership fees for the privilege. Those would amount to much more than any fee they could charge to for using them."

Well said David.