Refinishing a table

I have a table similar to the one pictured. The varnish is cracked along the edges. I want to sand and varnish and refinish. My questions are the following. What type of finish did Main ship use on these tables? Will Helmsman varnish be a good product to use to refinish? I have seen similar tables that look to be made of the same type of wood on dozens of boats. Wasn't sure since it's a marine application that I should be using something special?
Thanks Jeff.

Are you going to strip it down to bare wood and start over?

Or just strip the bad spots, build them up and then add a coat or two to the whole table?

Good question. I just wanted to touch it up if possible. It has a mirror finish but I noticed the edges were cracked. If I need to totally sand off the old finish I can. Maybe it would not look as good as it does now?
Jeff.

You can varnish it. Can't imagine a finish that varnish won't adhere to w good cleaning and sanding. Just read what it says on the can. And prep well. Then follow application directions.

I'm curious to know what Mainship put on the table. I would think it would be a fairly hard finish to be scratch resistant. In normal usage there's plenty of opportunities to scratch a dining table top.

I'm in the process of refinishing our dining room table at home. I finished it years ago w poylester FG casting resin. One pours on the resin w hardener mixed in and then put a big piece of mylar over the resin and table top. Then using a roller on the top of the mylar rolling the resin underneath out to all surfaces of the table. I was concerned about the hardness of the finish and thought it would be all scratched up fairly soon. It lasted decades .. very well but I refinished it this last week. I used a different product called Mirror Coat by System Three. An epoxy product I'm quite sure. Used a roller and brushes (no mylar). Was easier than w the mylar but still a fussy thing to do. I can see why they call it "Mirror Coat" ... it's VERY shiny. But I already suspect it may scratch more easily than the polyester casting resin. All I need to do now is finish the edges of the table. I'm using Epiphanes varnish for that. Harder than most varnishes (I think) but much easier to use and touch up than the epoxy Mirror Coat.

I was going to just use the Epiphanes. Wanted to do the mylar thing but decided on the Clear Coat after hearing about it. Much easier application. My job is not perfect. There were some cracks on my table top that leaked down so there's a few little negative "puckers" and some (very few) bubbles that can be seen. Not bad at all though. I'll be happy if it indeed is scrath resistant. It's marketed as a bar top coating. That would need plenty of scratch resistance IMO.

Varnish should be fine for your boat table and can be easily touched up. For varnish try to find one that is harder than most. I think Epiphanes is. High oil varnishes (like my favorite .. (McClosky)) .. Is a high oil product. More flexable but also softer. A high oil varnish would not be best for a table top. Too soft.
I present all the above for general interest and in the event that you want to get involved and use Mirror Coat you have a reference and some heads up on what's involved. Also (as always) there may be many more out there that may be interested in this finish. By the way I got the Mirror Coat at Fisheries Supply.

jskinner30PII said:

Good question. I just wanted to touch it up if possible. It has a mirror finish but I noticed the edges were cracked. If I need to totally sand off the old finish I can. Maybe it would not look as good as it does now?
Jeff.

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I would not use old school varnish on a table. There are just to many better alternative finishes that stand up better to water, alcohol, abrasions, etc.

If it truly has a mirrored finish, the finish was most likely sprayed on and/or polished out after it was applied.

With out seeing what you are dealing with its a bit hard to give advice. But in my opinion if you want the table to look as goods as new you would be better of letting a profession refinish it.

Unless you have done a fair amount of refinishing yourself in the past.

If it is just cracking along the edges, how about using some clear Loctite, Devcon, Gorilla Glue epoxy in a tube and run it into the cracks with your finger. It will look glossy and ought to flow and seal the crack.

How old is your boat? Unless the finish hasn't stopped curing, ie less than a couple of years old, it will be inert, so once you have sanded enough to give it some tooth for the next layer to hang onto, you can use whatever you like for the new finish. For interior tables, my go to is a polyurethane "varnish". It is tougher than a pure varnish, doesn't stain with water or alcohol spills, and a gloss finish will give a decent shine. You can buff it for a better shine.

So sand around the cracking, fill with a clear or appropriately coloured filler, wait for it to cure, then prep the whole surface and finish it.

I made a table for my previous boat, finished it with Polyurethane it turned out fine, and tough.

Finally something I can contribute to on this forum. I'm an amateur woodworker and have built many tables. Finishing is an art I have yet to master but it is by far the most important part. The first thing anyone does when they see a new piece of furniture is touch it. If finished poorly it immediately leaves a bad impression.

It is very difficult for an amateur to "touch up" a failing top coat. I would recommend sanding to bear wood. Stain to desired color. Before wiping off the stain, sand the wood with 600 grit sand paper until you build up a slurry of stain and sawdust. Gel stain works well in this application. Wipe off the stain evening out the color as you go.

Let dry and top coat with high gloss, wipe on polyurethane. Wipe on is thinner than conventional poly and dries faster. While it takes more coats to build up, the faster drying time prevents dust and nibs from forming in the finish. For the amateur, myself included, wipe on will provide the ability to lay down a glass smooth, sprayed on looking factory finish.

3-4 coats at a minimum sanding in between coats with 600 or 800 grit sand paper. Vacuume the dust, use mineral spirits on a cotton cloth as a TAC cloth then re coat. Yes it sounds like a lot of work and it will take a few days to allow for drying but a small table will go quick.

This end table I built of cherry is finished in the manner described.

Good luck!

What do you use to "wipe" on the finish?

Wipe on with a clean, lint free cotton rag. I pour the poly in a small bowl. Fold up my cloth then dip a little in the bowl and then wipe on with the grain. I go the length up and back, then dip again and repeat.

Scott,
Sounds awful messy and a bit/lot like oiling.
Omitted but I assume you use rubber gloves .. or?
If not what solvent do you clean your hands with?
Your table looks like the nice hand rubbed furniture I'm used to seeing.

Lovely work, scott2640.

Agree re: good to use tougher finishes than traditional varnishes, but they'd do perfectly well.

Oiled and wipe on finishes are easy to do and not messy to do. They won't yield a high shine, glassy finish. I prefer the appearance of the satiny sheen.

High gloss is more often the result of spray application. Can be done with roll and tip, or brush, given more skill than I have, and an utterly clean, dustfree workplace.

I'd be worried about the cracking at the edges of your table. Why there? bad finish, swelling veneers? Remember how pianos look after many years; the sprayed lacquer alligators. My gut reaction is to remove all the finish.

For fun, and for scott2640, here's a bedside table I made, finished with wiped on Tung oil. I don't use the drop leaves; they're to relate to an identically-sized antique. I've since changed the pulls to brass.

There are satin and high gloss versions of wipe on available. Not to messy. I generally fold my cloth into a neat 3x3 square or so and dip one edge in the poly, leaving the other edge dry. Everything cleans up with mineral spirits.

This is our dining table I finished with gloss wipe on poly. The gloss which I generally don't like but does provide for a more durable finish with the increase in solids content definitely has a more nautical feel. Sorry it's upside down, it happens all the time on various forums when the pictures are taken on my iPhone. Not sure what the solution is.

scott2640,
Nice table indeed.
I cut a pice of mahogany plywood to cover that table (previous post) and was just going to varnish it. Just before I was going to varnish I pulled up the ply and used the Mirror Coat. I am varnishing the edges. Two coats so far. Quite likely would have done the rub on had I seen your post a few days earlier. Thanks for the info. I always associated rup on w oil. And when I used oil on my cap rails in Alaska I used a brush there too. Guess I like brushes. My wife likes those foam things. I've only used one once.

You need to post pictures of the failing surface. Repairing a wooden antique often requires removing all of the old finish/polish, avoided if possible to maintain originality. Is the table veneered, has the edge banding veneer failed, or is this an edge without veneer? The grain of the top surface could be matching veneers.
As to applying varnish with a cloth, french polish is normally applied to larger flat areas with a cloth pad, in a polishing motion.
I`m sure the answers will zero in on a fix if you post pics.

Hard to envision a lint free cotton rag. I didn't think such a thing existed.

78puget-trawler said:

Hard to envision a lint free cotton rag. I didn't think such a thing existed.

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A cloth pad is the traditional way to apply french polish in a vigorous circular motion, you won`t see bits from cloth on fine antique furniture, it must exist.

For true 'lint free', use old 100% cotton T shirts that have been washed many times. I use the blue paper shop towels sold in the box stores with good results. The best, if you can find them, are the old style cotton diapers. IMO

BruceK said:

A cloth pad is the traditional way to apply french polish in a vigorous circular motion, you won`t see bits from cloth on fine antique furniture, it must exist.

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Polish and varnish not really the same thing though.

78puget-trawler said:

Polish and varnish not really the same thing though.

Click to expand...

Googlr French Polish for a good explaination of the technique.

Rob

To all,
The reason for cracking is I have two mountings for thetable. One top side and one down below. I leave it top side more than below dueto the space and the V berth bed that unfolds. I’ll take a couple pictures whenI go down to pull the boat this week. Thanks for everyone’s input.


Capt.Bill11
I think after seeing responsesI will strip it down to bare wood.

Nomad Willy
The pictures show a beautifulfinish on your table.

Koliver
It’s a 2006 Main Ship Rumrunner.

Steve
Polyurethane seems to be what I need to use.

Scott2640
I’m a novice but I have finished many pieces over the years.I think the only problem is having an environment that does not have dustfloating around in the air during the application process. I’m going to tryyour process and see how it turns out. It’s just a table after all.

Dheckrotte
The table looks nice. I’m not a high gloss guy but wasthinking of making it look like it was originally.

BruceK
I will post a couple good pictures later this week.

While you might find good information on refinishing a table on a boating forum, you can find far more information by doing a web search on "refinishing furniture".


One of they keys to getting information is knowing the best places to look for it.

78puget-trawler said:

Polish and varnish not really the same thing though.

Click to expand...

That`s true, French Polish is not "polish" in the usual sense, it is a gloss finish of shellac dissolved in alcohol, usually applied in multiple hand rubbed coats, using a fast circular technique with a cloth pad. It can be sprayed ,and is often brushed on small non flat areas, like legs of furniture. It was around before varnish, imo gives a more attractive softer looking finish,but is harder to apply and more susceptible to damage.

Wipe on poly is available at the the big box stores usually in the paint department near the other oil based stain products.

Unless you have access to a clean room there is always dust, it'll never be perfect. Just make it your last job of the day, put on the finish and leave. If no one is around stirring up the air you'll be in good shape.

Good luck.

Good advise all around. However if the final finish is to be high gloss, as per the original pic, then a high gloss finish needs to be reapplied.
This is best done by stripping and starting by scratch. However this doesn't sound like the process your looking to do.
To add finish to a previously finished piece without stripping you need to be sure no wax or surface oils remain. A wipe down with naphtha, changing the rag frequently will remove the wax. Sanding with 220 sandpaper until a uniform sanded surface is apparent will give you the "grip" the finish will require. Your challenge is filling in the cracked areas. To do this a few coats, sanded between until they don't show, will suffice. Be warned it might take 4. Note the entire table does not need this treatment, consider this spot priming.
Once the cracked surfaces are filled, two or three coats, sanded with 320 will suffice.

The original was most likely a two part poly. The two part is harder and it allows a somewhat thicker coat to be applied as it cures, as well as dries via the solvents evaporating. You certainly can use a single part poly.

Key points are; clean surface, clean drying area. Do not be afraid to use a bit more thinner in order to alleviate brush marks (this may result in extra coats) Note that excess humidity will affect the final gloss.

I have been refinishing furniture, boat finishes, and cabinetry professionally for 35 years, both in a shop in in the field.

BruceK said:

That`s true, French Polish is not "polish" in the usual sense, it is a gloss finish of shellac dissolved in alcohol, usually applied in multiple hand rubbed coats, using a fast circular technique with a cloth pad. It can be sprayed ,and is often brushed on small non flat areas, like legs of furniture. It was around before varnish, imo gives a more attractive softer looking finish,but is harder to apply and more susceptible to damage.

Click to expand...

I would not recommend to use shellac if you are not used to it or practice a lot before. It is drying very fast, which is good so dust won't have time to deposit but at the same time if you are not used to it, it is difficult to get a nice smooth finish. Anyway I would not use shellac on a table as it is not the best finish to resist to water and even less to alcohol.

One advise if you tint/varnish bare wood. Depending on the wood grain, use a wet rag to lightly wet the bare wood, let it dry, than sand it again. Depending on the wood grain type, the grain may "inflate" a bit when applying the finish which result in raw aspect. By wetting it a bit and sand you avoid it to do so. This technic has a name but don't remember it.

This thread is very interesting to me as the table on our 2005 mainship is getting close to needing a refinish as well. It's not cracking yet, but the finish is getting cloudy and is pretty scratched up.

Most of the Mainships we looked at during the purchase search (about 6 or 8) had the same problem with the finish on the tables. Most of them were cracked and peeling. I don't know what the finish is that MS put on, but it seems pretty thick.

As I said, no cracks in ours and I'd like to not strip it if possible, but I'm concerned that if I lay new finish over the old it will crack and/or peel.

Doug,
As long as the boat didn't become extreemely damp cracking and peeling shouldn't happen. Only after a very long time.

Bill,
If it truly has a mirrored finish, the finish was most likely sprayed on and/or polished out after it was applied.
I agree.
And for a table top I also agree Polyurethane would probably be better than "old school" oil base varnish. If the wood is dimensionally stable cracking should not be an issue. But high oil varnish would minimize cracking because it's more flexible.

Sometimes posts are worth repeating ..
Keith wrote on post # 7,
"How old is your boat? Unless the finish hasn't stopped curing, ie less than a couple of years old, it will be inert, so once you have sanded enough to give it some tooth for the next layer to hang onto, you can use whatever you like for the new finish. For interior tables, my go to is a polyurethane "varnish". It is tougher than a pure varnish, doesn't stain with water or alcohol spills, and a gloss finish will give a decent shine. You can buff it for a better shine.

So sand around the cracking, fill with a clear or appropriately coloured filler, wait for it to cure, then prep the whole surface and finish it."

Very well said and fit the OP well. I would add that waiting for the filler to cure is important.

Doug Cole, I'll second Eric's post re: little danger of cracking.

I'd add that good prep of the existing finish is important. If the Mainship owners say that their finishes crack out in the field of the table, as opposed to at corners or where edges of veneers are exposed, then I think you can/should wetsand (220 grit wet-or-dry paper with a sanding block) your current finish to remove the scratches, dulling and clouding, as well as to remove soaps, skin and food oils and polishes, taking care to not sand through the finish, and recoat.

If you are suffering cracking at the corners and edges, like the original poster was, then clean the table with solvent - lacquer thinner would be my choice - dry sand and recoat with care taken to remove lifted finishes and to adequately coat the cracked areas.