Progressive insurance

Anybody deal with Progressive Insurance? I'm thinking about going with them. Would like to hear your comments good or bad.

I had their coverage with my runabout before buying my current boat. I called them for a quote on my Californian. At the time 8 years ago, it seemed they knew nothing about big boat insurance.

They have goofy ads and the founder is a progressive himself, big time I have read. That wont matter to most folks. Sort of like the AARP, I am old enough to take advantage of their program but resist because of their known politics.

I have Progressive for my boat, auto, and home. I've had to file two claims (one boat, one auto) with them. They were very prompt, extremely professional, and resolved both claims quickly. I would not hesitate to insure with them.

tc, is yours a yacht policy including significant coverage for enviro spills?

78puget-trawler said:

They have goofy ads and the founder is a progressive himself, big time I have read. That wont matter to most folks. Sort of like the AARP, I am old enough to take advantage of their program but resist because of their known politics.

Click to expand...

Their founder (Joseph Lewis) founded the company in 1937. His son (Peter B. Lewis) is the guy considered the liberal; he died in 2013. It is now a publicly traded company (since 1978).

FlyWright said:

tc, is yours a yacht policy including significant coverage for enviro spills?

Click to expand...

No, it's a 24' pleasure boat.

tcpip95 said:

Their founder (Joseph Lewis) founded the company in 1937. His son (Peter B. Lewis) is the guy considered the liberal; he died in 2013. It is now a publicly traded company (since 1978).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I did not know that.

78puget-trawler said:

Thanks for the clarification. I did not know that.

Click to expand...

I had heard the exact same thing some years ago, and avoided them largely for that reason. I looked into them nonetheless, and figured any money I saved by switching to them I would donate to the RNC (my personal way of countering Liberals). Lo and behold, I discovered that info.

So now I keep my savings!

Capt Kangeroo said:

Anybody deal with Progressive Insurance? I'm thinking about going with them. Would like to hear your comments good or bad.

Click to expand...

Yes- plenty of knowledge about Progressive.

You will want to thoroughly read the policy language and then see if it (at a minimum) matches up to this writeup I did a few years ago:

Bayliner Owners Club - BOC Forum - Topic: Vessel insurance 101 (Very simplified!!!) (1/2)

In my opinion, it's always coverage first, then premium, as considerations. The majority of us have vessels that could easily bankrupt us should a claim occur and proper insurance coverage is not in place.

I carried $500K yacht insurance coverage from ACE on my (50ft) boat, Annual premium about $2,500 with $10K deductible. Reputable large insurance company, understood the big boat business and worked with knowledgeable broker in Annapolis. Similar policy from Boat US priced out at about $15K!!!

Have had them for yrs never had a claim but prices are good

I've had Progressive insuring the boat for several years. Admittedly, I've not yet filed a claim with them. Mine is a typical Marine policy including marine salvage and environmental spills. "Read the language of the policy" applies to ANY insurance policy and should not be exclusive advice for Progressive.

My friend Bob had Progressive when Topical Storm Beryl came through and he dragged anchor into the trees. His mast was tangled in trees while he sat in 9' of water!

Anyway, 27'er and yes they paid without issue all damages.

This is his boat:


I could not say if he told Progressive he lived aboard her full time... simply don't know and he did have an address ashore too.

Yes, reading the policy applies to all companies, but the question was specifically about progressive and when it comes to large boats, to environmental and salvage and to exclusions, I'd be very hesitant.

Here are some of the things I'd look at most carefully.

-Agreed fixed value or market depreciated?

-Depreciation on partial damage. Will you get new parts? If you have a 25% loss, will you get what it costs to repair or be limited to 25% of it's now depreciated value?

-How extensive is your third party coverage, especially for environmental damage?

-Is it all risks without any warranty of seaworthiness? Or if the boat falls apart might and sinks, might they deny the claim because the boat was not seaworthy?

-What about latent defects? Does it exclude claims by stating they were hidden manufacturing defects or problems hidden at the time you purchased or had it surveyed? For instance, not reported on the survey, but they think they should have been detected at that time?

-Areas of navigation. Are they restricted? Are times of the year restricted? What about coverage during a named storm?

-What about piracy? Acts of war? Not too important perhaps if you boat in Nebraska but definitely if you boat in areas of the Caribbean and Central and South America.

-What about incidental damages? What if the engines stop and subsequently you have to abandon at sea? Will they say that's not covered as the engines aren't? What about conflicts between warranty and insurance?

-What about towing and salvage? Will they pay salvage costs on top of a boat they total? Or if your boat is salvaged and brought to shore, will they deduct the salvage fee from the amount paid?

-What about operator of the boat? What if they approve you to operate it and insure you, but your brother has it out when the problem occurs, or your son?

-What about if you're in violation of a law at the time of the accident? Will a .09 get you a denial? Will an expired license or operator not legally licensed where it occurs?

-What if damage happens as a result of third party action such as dropped off a lift at a shipyard or a fire on another boat at a marina?

-Will they defend you in court if a claim arises?

-reputation for prompt and complete payment of claims is important as well as how well they'll protect your interests when the other boat is at fault. Will they pay and then sue to recover from the other party or back away entirely?

-What is their policy on live aboard and how do they define it?

Read and understand every paragraph. Give special attention to all exclusions. Think of them each as excuses not to pay.

That said, for a 50' boat being used coastal and/or offshore. Progressive would definitely not be my choice of carrier. I would go for a reputable "yacht" insurer, yacht in this case simply tied to size. With some it's over 27'.

Thanks to all, some great info and much appreciated. As expected, seems to be some mixed opinions on Progressive and all points well taken. In my case I don't really care about coverage of the boat itself, I don't have a lot invested but I am very concerned about liability. The few companies I have talked to in the US are capped at 300K to 500K liability which seems very low to me. In Canada, 1mill is pretty much standard and 2 to 5 mill is common. Strange, I would have thought the reverse to be true between the US and Canada.

One thing that did stand out about Progressive was their apparent fairness when it comes to surveys. Others want a full out of water survey every 3-5 yrs, they will accept my last one which is just under 5 yrs old since there has been no material changes to the vessel or circumstances which would suggest a fresh survey would be necessary. This is a huge savings in itself.

(Peter, I had forgotten you were in the biz, if you wouldn't mind could you send me a private post with your phone number. I would appreciate discussing this with you and perhaps you could steer me in the right direction. By the way, that was an excellent article you wrote.)

Cheers, all.

My Ace Inamar Yacht Policy (see earlier post) carried $1M in liability, had agreed hull value, and was very reasonably priced. There was an intial survey report at purchase then a photographic (no haul out) review at year 6 (they sent a disposable camera). I do have Progressive on my motorcycle but would think twice before insuring a large vessel. If interested in Ace, I suggest you contact Jackmartin.com. Very helpful and knowledgeable broker in Annapolis.

One reason that many liability policies have what seems to be relatively low maximums such as $500,000 or even $1 million is that most people insuring expensive items also have an umbrella policy. If you don't have one, I'd strongly advise looking at them. They cover things for which you already have insurance, but amounts beyond those of the other policies. Someone might have $500k of liability on their boat, $300k auto, $200k home, but then have a $5 million umbrella. Because the odds of it coming into play are so slim, it's not as expensive as you might think. However, it protects you against the potential enormous claim.

B&B, I am not familiar with this. Do I understand correctly that an Umbrella would be tied to your marine policy extending liability over and above it's limits? or is it a standalone policy that extends liability to all your assets whatever they may be?

My understanding is that your marine insurance would be the first payer in the event of a successful liability claim but only up to the limit of that policy. The umbrella policy would be the second payer, up to the limit of that second policy. So, maximum liability coverage would be the sum of both policy limits. An important watch-out is that your vessel and its marine insurance coverage must be reported to your umbrella insurance carrier, and will probably increase the risk rating and premium cost for that policy.

I understand, thanks Chris

Capt Kangeroo said:

B&B, I am not familiar with this. Do I understand correctly that an Umbrella would be tied to your marine policy extending liability over and above it's limits? or is it a standalone policy that extends liability to all your assets whatever they may be?

Click to expand...

Umbrella is as the name implies and not just for one part of your life. It covers above the limits of your other policies, always a secondary payer. So if you want it to cover boat liability then you must have a boat liability policy in place. Now, in order to know what is covered, you do need to tell them about all other policies.

Still, it's low cost for a lot of protection and peace of mind. Whether it's $5 million, $10 million or more it costs less than you might think. For most people, an umbrella policy will never have a single payout. However, when someone gets seriously and permanently injured or dies, then suddenly you get sued for all kinds of 7 digit money. Your primary liability policy likely pays to it's limit and then either you pay the rest or your umbrella policy does. Serious accidents can happen anywhere at any time.

Had Flo coverage for home and vehicles for many years. No claims. They wouldn't insure Shangri-La, too old they said.

Enviormental is required by all policies written, $800,000 as I recall, but the coverage is cheap...for now. Progressive canceled me...no claims for 2 years after I moved my agent with Progressive to FL from TX 2009 to 2011 in Tx. Then I truthfully answered to being a live aboard, not knowing to lie, I went from St Pete to Vero W/O coverage and did not know it because I did not get a call.

I am very resentful to Flo (TV spokesperson) and progressive. Been with Atlass out of Ft Lauderdale since, still no claim, but they seem responsive. I just give them...(ins companies) money, and more money, and still more money. Thankfully no claims.

If I get hurt on highway, boat or wherever, laying there, bleeding, knowing it is not my fault and I find out their insurance is with Progressive I will ask they call my lawyer BEFORE the EMT's. cause I, given the dreaded opportunity will stick it to them anyway I can.

Mule said:

Enviormental is required by all policies written, $800,000 as I recall, but the coverage is cheap...for now. Progressive canceled me...no claims for 2 years after I moved my agent with Progressive to FL from TX 2009 to 2011 in Tx. Then I truthfully answered to being a live aboard, not knowing to lie, I went from St Pete to Vero W/O coverage and did not know it because I did not get a call.

I am very resentful to Flo (TV spokesperson) and progressive. Been with Atlass out of Ft Lauderdale since, still no claim, but they seem responsive. I just give them...(ins companies) money, and more money, and still more money. Thankfully no claims.

If I get hurt on highway, boat or wherever, laying there, bleeding, knowing it is not my fault and I find out their insurance is with Progressive I will ask they call my lawyer BEFORE the EMT's. cause I, given the dreaded opportunity will stick it to them anyway I can.

Click to expand...

There is no requirement for insurance policies to have environmental coverage. In fact, there is very little regulation on the form or coverage of boat policies. Most states have lots of rules on auto insurance but fewer on houses and very few, if any, on boats.

Also, never lie in getting insurance. You're doing the insurer a huge favor if you do, by giving them a reason to not pay a claim. They'll gladly take your money. The do not generally do much checking when issuing policies, but far more in handling claims.

Mule said:

... I truthfully answered to being a live aboard, not knowing to lie....

Click to expand...

Knowing to lie?!
Insurance obtained on the basis of a lie is often no insurance at all. Here, and I expect there, you have a duty of disclosure, and an obligation to answer questions in the proposal truthfully, as you did. Here, there is a duty of "utmost good faith", which is a mutual obligation, as some insurers have discovered the hard way.

Mule said:

Enviormental is required by all policies written, $800,000 as I recall, but the coverage is cheap...for now. Progressive canceled me...no claims for 2 years after I moved my agent with Progressive to FL from TX 2009 to 2011 in Tx. Then I truthfully answered to being a live aboard, not knowing to lie, I went from St Pete to Vero W/O coverage and did not know it because I did not get a call.

I am very resentful to Flo (TV spokesperson) and progressive. Been with Atlass out of Ft Lauderdale since, still no claim, but they seem responsive. I just give them...(ins companies) money, and more money, and still more money. Thankfully no claims.

If I get hurt on highway, boat or wherever, laying there, bleeding, knowing it is not my fault and I find out their insurance is with Progressive I will ask they call my lawyer BEFORE the EMT's. cause I, given the dreaded opportunity will stick it to them anyway I can.

Click to expand...

Let me get this straight...you answered Progressive's questions honestly and because they do not allow liveaboards, they dropped you. Now you're upset thinking you should have lied to them? And you're looking forward to sticking it to them any way you can?

Wow! That's a whole lot to put out there in a public forum. It speaks volumes.

Yeah FW, they put me in a compromised position for the scheduled trip from St Pete to Vero. I did not get a call, an EMail...Nothing. When my snail mail caught up I found out. Thank goodness nothing happened. Then I had to make another call to get my money back.

Don't even begin to attempt to lecture me about the ethics of insurance company practices. Just go coat to coast...border to border to find folks that feel sorry for insurance companies. Were it not for pharmaceutical companies the Executives of Insurance companies would have no place to point to and say, "Think we are bad, get a load of those guys". Find someone, other than an insurance man, that think they (as an industry) operate in an ethical manner.b good luck.

I will never forget Farmers Insurance adjusters, after Moore OK tornado some years back, demanding of people standing in front of the remaining slab of their home, an idemized list of their loss rather than cutting a check for the face value of the policy.

BandB said:

There is no requirement for insurance policies to have environmental coverage. In fact, there is very little regulation on the form or coverage of boat policies. Most states have lots of rules on auto insurance but fewer on houses and very few, if any, on boats.

Also, never lie in getting insurance. You're doing the insurer a huge favor if you do, by giving them a reason to not pay a claim. They'll gladly take your money. The do not generally do much checking when issuing policies, but far more in handling claims.

Click to expand...

My agent does not know if this is a regulatory or legislative requirement but EVERY policy they write for yachts there is $900,000 enviro coverage. They are a large insurer in Fort Lauderdale. You cannot have it excluded upon request.

Well, Mule, I will lecture you on insurance company ethics.

Insuring companies are usually demonized by those who-

1) don't read their policy, but expect the policy to cover everything
2) place low premium as the highest priority vice solid coverages
3) believe they are more knowledgeable that those in the industry, and refuse to listen to their agent/broker
4) aren't forthcoming and truthful in representing the risk

Under uberrimae fidei, both parties are required to disclose anything that is material to the risk, even if not asked. The insuring company is on the hook to pay claims that fall within the scope of the policy language, so we want to be clear as the the various aspects of the risk materially as well as situationally. Premiums paid are but a fraction of the insured value of the vessel, and that is the risk the insurer assumes.

Progressive doesn't cover liveaboards- if you are a liveaboard and knew this, yet selected them as your carrier based on the premium, then you are at fault for violating uberrimae fidei. In my experience as both an agent/broker and now as an underwriter, I say with confidence that we do not look for ways to "not" pay a claim- we ensure from policy inception (based on info provided by the client) to vet and underwrite the risk as best we can to ensure proper coverage. By doing so, the claims process is an non event. Example- last December, my wife and I purchased a new 13' Whaler. In July, while under tow, the Whaler flipped over. There was damage to the engine, electrical systems, electronics, etc.

We filed the claim, and had the check in 4 days. The claims Rep did not know I was in the business- I was just another file and claim number to him.

The only times I can remember having claims challenges are all based on the four above listed reasons.

Select the proper policy and have peace of mind. Select your policy based on the above, and roll the dice should a claim occur- and know that the insuring companies have the resources to closely investigate claims for fraud and non compliance.

BTW, pollution coverage is now $939,800.