Contract Signed / New Build Underway
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
McGillicuddy
Guru
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2015
- Messages
- 754
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Scot Free
- Vessel Make
- Cheoy Lee 53' Efficient
I'm surprised it wasn't shrink wrapped for the voyage?
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2008
- Messages
- 13,731
- Location
- California Delta
- Vessel Name
- FlyWright
- Vessel Make
- 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
update
Well we are aboard for our first night in record breaking 100 degree temperatures on the water (global warming?). Bottom line is SD averages about 70 degrees and we have turned into wimps so this is not good. Thank god for AC and a local rep who helped us with a little commissioning follow up based on Scott's recommendation. We are cool and enjoying the boat. Much more to follow soon including the 60 mile run south from DP in 3-5 foot swells on three sides at different times and my thoughts. Feels good to be back on the water.
John
Well we are aboard for our first night in record breaking 100 degree temperatures on the water (global warming?). Bottom line is SD averages about 70 degrees and we have turned into wimps so this is not good. Thank god for AC and a local rep who helped us with a little commissioning follow up based on Scott's recommendation. We are cool and enjoying the boat. Much more to follow soon including the 60 mile run south from DP in 3-5 foot swells on three sides at different times and my thoughts. Feels good to be back on the water.
John
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2008
- Messages
- 13,731
- Location
- California Delta
- Vessel Name
- FlyWright
- Vessel Make
- 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Great to hear, John! What's your hull number? Maybe a new screen name....Hxx. I think you're a couple of boats behind.
Congrats!
Congrats!
North Baltic sea
Guru
Good luck with the new boat and a lot of worry-free miles with you!
The boat looks really nice, new adventures are waiting for you ...
The boat looks really nice, new adventures are waiting for you ...
Looks like a spy working undercover doesn't he?
Glad the boat is here, in the water, and you're on it. We'd have had serious withdrawal during the wait. Might have driven us to do something...like charter or something. Boataholics need their fixes.
Phyrcooler
Senior Member
Congratulations! 
It has been fun watching you work through this as you fine tuned her to suit your needs. She is beautiful! I look forward to seeing her around the bay, and hopefully at some point, up close! 
It has been fun watching you work through this as you fine tuned her to suit your needs. She is beautiful! I look forward to seeing her around the bay, and hopefully at some point, up close! 
dhays
Guru
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
- Messages
- 9,045
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Kinship
- Vessel Make
- North Pacific 43
Delivery Cruise
We are back home for a day so I thought I would post about our trip south. Scott and Roger delivered the boat from Long Beach to Dana Point (25 miles) while I was stuck at work. When I asked Scott what time he wanted to leave on Saturday he suggested 0900hrs. My first thought was this is late since I'm use to leaving around 0600hrs for this run at 6 knots on our previous boats. So I got to sleep in a few extra hours - nice
I was a little concerned with the weather all week and knew the longer we delayed the run south the better conditions would be. The forecast for our trip was 3-5 foot swells at nine seconds and 2 foot wind waves. Nothing serious but I was still concerned how the boat would handle the beam seas.
As soon as we departed the harbor we increased RPM and speed to around 1750 RPM which gave us over 8 knots. Wow, we were flying I thought to myself and the engine noise was remarkably very low. I'm not sure but I would say it was either the same or quieter as our N40 with the Dry Stack Exhaust Lugger engine. The boat is definitely much quieter than the N35 with the 350 Yanmare which was very loud. I would give the Cummins engine and boat very high marks on quietness.
The swells were only about 3 foot on our aft starboard quarter providing a little push. I could feel the hull slice through the water up front followed buy a very soft side to side motion mid-ship (PH) and excellent tracking. The stern never dipped regardless of power settings. We were hand steering the entire trip and to be honest it was not difficult at all. I had no real problem making lunch in the galley and eating up in the PH. I was really impressed with the ride. The swells moved to our beam as we got close to SD.
By the time we reached Point Loma (San Diego) the seas picked up a little and we had some solid 5 footers on the beam with a nice 15K wind. Even in these seas the boat handled great and it was never discomforting. Average speed was about 8.5 knots with a maximum of 9 knots for awhile with 4.25gph fuel burn. We arrived the slip at 1700hrs making it an eight hour trip (I'm use to 10 hours) so this was a great surprise and exactly what we were looking for.
On the way down we discussed how the term semi-displacement really doesn't fit this hull. Based on this one run I would call this hull design a modified full displacement hull with similar motion, better initial stability and nice entry. I think this hull design is really special and perfect for anyone not intended to go over 12 knots. Regarding stabilizers my only comment at this point is I think we saved ourselves $50K with this boat.
More to follow....
We are back home for a day so I thought I would post about our trip south. Scott and Roger delivered the boat from Long Beach to Dana Point (25 miles) while I was stuck at work. When I asked Scott what time he wanted to leave on Saturday he suggested 0900hrs. My first thought was this is late since I'm use to leaving around 0600hrs for this run at 6 knots on our previous boats. So I got to sleep in a few extra hours - nice
I was a little concerned with the weather all week and knew the longer we delayed the run south the better conditions would be. The forecast for our trip was 3-5 foot swells at nine seconds and 2 foot wind waves. Nothing serious but I was still concerned how the boat would handle the beam seas.
As soon as we departed the harbor we increased RPM and speed to around 1750 RPM which gave us over 8 knots. Wow, we were flying I thought to myself and the engine noise was remarkably very low. I'm not sure but I would say it was either the same or quieter as our N40 with the Dry Stack Exhaust Lugger engine. The boat is definitely much quieter than the N35 with the 350 Yanmare which was very loud. I would give the Cummins engine and boat very high marks on quietness.
The swells were only about 3 foot on our aft starboard quarter providing a little push. I could feel the hull slice through the water up front followed buy a very soft side to side motion mid-ship (PH) and excellent tracking. The stern never dipped regardless of power settings. We were hand steering the entire trip and to be honest it was not difficult at all. I had no real problem making lunch in the galley and eating up in the PH. I was really impressed with the ride. The swells moved to our beam as we got close to SD.
By the time we reached Point Loma (San Diego) the seas picked up a little and we had some solid 5 footers on the beam with a nice 15K wind. Even in these seas the boat handled great and it was never discomforting. Average speed was about 8.5 knots with a maximum of 9 knots for awhile with 4.25gph fuel burn. We arrived the slip at 1700hrs making it an eight hour trip (I'm use to 10 hours) so this was a great surprise and exactly what we were looking for.
On the way down we discussed how the term semi-displacement really doesn't fit this hull. Based on this one run I would call this hull design a modified full displacement hull with similar motion, better initial stability and nice entry. I think this hull design is really special and perfect for anyone not intended to go over 12 knots. Regarding stabilizers my only comment at this point is I think we saved ourselves $50K with this boat.
More to follow....
tadhana
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2011
- Messages
- 596
- Location
- USA EAST
- Vessel Name
- Tadhana
- Vessel Make
- Helmsman 38 Pilothouse
John, Sounds like pleasant run. We think this hull performs well. I like the term "modified displacement hull" for this boat. We have found the motion to be good and the boat handles what ever we throw at her. 5s on the beam would be a bit much for us, but it depends upon the wavelength. Here on the Chesapeake the wave length is short! We usually run at 7kt about 1620rpm to 1680 rpm with a fuel burn of 2.4 to 2.8.
I should clarify the 5 footers were limited to a short time while we rounded Point Loma and were far apart at nine plus seconds. Most of the trip had 3-4 foot swells on the quarter stern which the boat handed very well. Plan to take her out tomorrow for a bay cruise and short run outside so Mary and Sailor Blue can see how she handles.
Feels good to be back aboard and normal SD temperatures.
Life is good today
It's been awhile since I have felt as the title of this post says but today was a good day. Being back aboard after a couple days at home felt good. Waking up on the water and that first cup of coffee �� looking at the mirror like water and surrounding boats felt like we were back home. The weather was typical SD with calm winds and low 70's. We took the boat out for a two hour run to the inlet in calm seas. This was Mary's and Sailor Blue first ride and the weather gods cooperated. Mary drove the boat and loved it. We hit a few very large wakes and rolled pretty good which resulted in the topic of stabilization very quickly. She agreed we would use the boat for a year before making any decisions and recognizes every boat I different. She agreed the H38 felt solid, heavy (like the N40) and glided through the water quickly. She loves the speed (7.5-8.0 knot's) larger windows and 360 view. She really likes the boats looks, interior layout and over size (she says it feels larger than the N40's). .
After returning from our cruise I docked her perfectly using the instructions Scott provided. Of course we had a large audience watching to see if i was going to put scratch in the new boat. After a quick wash down we had lunch at the marina restaurant while enjoying the weather. From there it was back in the car and local stores and market before returning to the boat and making a few margaritas. We are now kicking back in the large salon listening to Billy Joel and playing with Sailor. Later we will BBQ a few steaks. Yes, today was a good day.��
It's been awhile since I have felt as the title of this post says but today was a good day. Being back aboard after a couple days at home felt good. Waking up on the water and that first cup of coffee �� looking at the mirror like water and surrounding boats felt like we were back home. The weather was typical SD with calm winds and low 70's. We took the boat out for a two hour run to the inlet in calm seas. This was Mary's and Sailor Blue first ride and the weather gods cooperated. Mary drove the boat and loved it. We hit a few very large wakes and rolled pretty good which resulted in the topic of stabilization very quickly. She agreed we would use the boat for a year before making any decisions and recognizes every boat I different. She agreed the H38 felt solid, heavy (like the N40) and glided through the water quickly. She loves the speed (7.5-8.0 knot's) larger windows and 360 view. She really likes the boats looks, interior layout and over size (she says it feels larger than the N40's). .
After returning from our cruise I docked her perfectly using the instructions Scott provided. Of course we had a large audience watching to see if i was going to put scratch in the new boat. After a quick wash down we had lunch at the marina restaurant while enjoying the weather. From there it was back in the car and local stores and market before returning to the boat and making a few margaritas. We are now kicking back in the large salon listening to Billy Joel and playing with Sailor. Later we will BBQ a few steaks. Yes, today was a good day.��
aginglawyer
Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2015
- Messages
- 20
- Location
- US
- Vessel Name
- La Paloma Blanca
- Vessel Make
- Helmsman Trawler 38
CONGRATULATIONS. This summer we stayed on board our Helmsman 38 for 11 weeks here in the Great Northwest, cruising from Bainbridge Island, WA, to many ports in the San Juan Islands and the Gulf Islands of British Columbia. We docked and we anchored and used mooring buoys and put 130 hours on the boat. We did have a single issue with the boat: The anchor light bulb came loose.
These are great boats and you will love it more the more you use it. We have fairly big wakes and waves here (plus the fog) and we have lived well without any stabilizers.
Enjoy.
Allan
La Paloma Blanca
These are great boats and you will love it more the more you use it. We have fairly big wakes and waves here (plus the fog) and we have lived well without any stabilizers.
Enjoy.
Allan
La Paloma Blanca
It's a shame you let yourself be between boats for so long as much as you love boating. Try not to let that happen next time.
And don't say there won't be a next time....
Phyrcooler
Senior Member
We were out on the bay for a couple hours mid afternoon today, and I was actually keeping an eye out for you - hoping to see the new boat. Guess we missed you! Congratulations again!
Commissioining Update
This past week found Mary and Sailor Blue at home while I bounced back and forth to SD to check on the boat. We had the A/C technicians aboard the early part of the week working on the system and changing out the controllers in the salon and OSR with ones that have sensors built in versus a separate probe wired to the return lines. I checked again on the boat yesterday and removed all the paper we had placed on the windows for privacy and on the floors for protection (smart move).
We plan to drive to SD on Sunday to replace the paper on the floors, drop off some TV's and other items before spending the night at the Sheraton hotel. Since we have everything covered up with paper and plastic its not practical to spend the night aboard plus we have the technicians from Alcom Marine arriving early Monday to begin installing the electronics. We also have the electrician returning Tuesday (he had to look at the inverter last week) to complete the propane tank installation.
I had two different canvas companies visit the boat and we are now awaiting their quotes. We would like to get this started next week and completed ASAP. We are planning a one piece cover around the PH windows, FB console / seat cover and folding Bimini top.
Assuming Alcom Marine is off the boat Friday we plan to have the cleaning crew perform a complete cleaning of both the inside and outside Saturday morning before we arrive in the afternoon and start to officially move aboard. We should see the window coverings late this week or early the following week followed by carpet two weeks later - then we are done?
The following are just observations between different experiences related to the commissioning process;
On our Nordhavn's the boat would arrive in SD and a PAE crew would drive it 60 miles up the coast to DP and spend about four - six weeks commissioning the boat. We would coordinate with the electronics, interior and canvas vendors during this time but they would not be allowed to start their actual installation unit PAE was done. This added about one extra week at the end.
On the Helmsman 38E the actual commissioning process took about two days followed by the trip south to SD and two more days for Scott to check and tweak the balance of untested systems. The few items that required attention would take two weeks to coordinate and contract with local vendors which Scott and I did together. I was able to have the interior and canvas vendors get aboard the first week to take measurements. Overall time for everything to completed is expected to take about four - five weeks from off load at Long Beach with the custom carpeting being the last item installed.
Conclusion: The process used by PAE takes a little longer (more complex boat), doesn't allow us aboard to use the boat but provides a 100% complete and ready to go boat at the end. The process used by Helmsman is a little shorter, allows us aboard quickly with "interrupted" time and offered me insight into many of the systems during the tweaking process. It also requires more coordination with vendors on my part (which I offered and enjoyed) but Mary would rather do without.
Scott continues to answer his cell phone 24/7 when I call with question and everything is working out fine. Overall we are very pleased with the "readiness condition" the boat arrived from the yard and how things have been progressing.
John
This past week found Mary and Sailor Blue at home while I bounced back and forth to SD to check on the boat. We had the A/C technicians aboard the early part of the week working on the system and changing out the controllers in the salon and OSR with ones that have sensors built in versus a separate probe wired to the return lines. I checked again on the boat yesterday and removed all the paper we had placed on the windows for privacy and on the floors for protection (smart move).
We plan to drive to SD on Sunday to replace the paper on the floors, drop off some TV's and other items before spending the night at the Sheraton hotel. Since we have everything covered up with paper and plastic its not practical to spend the night aboard plus we have the technicians from Alcom Marine arriving early Monday to begin installing the electronics. We also have the electrician returning Tuesday (he had to look at the inverter last week) to complete the propane tank installation.
I had two different canvas companies visit the boat and we are now awaiting their quotes. We would like to get this started next week and completed ASAP. We are planning a one piece cover around the PH windows, FB console / seat cover and folding Bimini top.
Assuming Alcom Marine is off the boat Friday we plan to have the cleaning crew perform a complete cleaning of both the inside and outside Saturday morning before we arrive in the afternoon and start to officially move aboard. We should see the window coverings late this week or early the following week followed by carpet two weeks later - then we are done?
The following are just observations between different experiences related to the commissioning process;
On our Nordhavn's the boat would arrive in SD and a PAE crew would drive it 60 miles up the coast to DP and spend about four - six weeks commissioning the boat. We would coordinate with the electronics, interior and canvas vendors during this time but they would not be allowed to start their actual installation unit PAE was done. This added about one extra week at the end.
On the Helmsman 38E the actual commissioning process took about two days followed by the trip south to SD and two more days for Scott to check and tweak the balance of untested systems. The few items that required attention would take two weeks to coordinate and contract with local vendors which Scott and I did together. I was able to have the interior and canvas vendors get aboard the first week to take measurements. Overall time for everything to completed is expected to take about four - five weeks from off load at Long Beach with the custom carpeting being the last item installed.
Conclusion: The process used by PAE takes a little longer (more complex boat), doesn't allow us aboard to use the boat but provides a 100% complete and ready to go boat at the end. The process used by Helmsman is a little shorter, allows us aboard quickly with "interrupted" time and offered me insight into many of the systems during the tweaking process. It also requires more coordination with vendors on my part (which I offered and enjoyed) but Mary would rather do without.
Scott continues to answer his cell phone 24/7 when I call with question and everything is working out fine. Overall we are very pleased with the "readiness condition" the boat arrived from the yard and how things have been progressing.
John
Bay Cruise
Sorry we missed you, we are at Sunroad Marina on Harbor Island. Feel free to stop by in a few weeks after the interior is completed for a closer look.
John
Sorry we missed you, we are at Sunroad Marina on Harbor Island. Feel free to stop by in a few weeks after the interior is completed for a closer look.
John
twistedtree
Guru
John, with the Helmsman, when in the process do yo take ownership of the boat? With the Nordhavn, you don't take ownership until the end after everything is complete. I recall with teh Helmsman you take ownership much sooner, and complete lots of the work under your ownership, but am not clear on exactly when that happened(s).
Thanks,
Peter
Thanks,
Peter
Great question, with Helmsman we take legal possession after the boat arrives at our port (Long Beach) but remains under warranty. A little different than with PAE and possibly due to the longer commissioning process with the larger boats. I should also add that Helmsman will perform a complete commissioning including electronics and other items if buyers request. We felt comfortable doing all this after receiving the boat. Yesterday we had Alcom Marine start the electronics installation which should take a week.
twistedtree
Guru
OK, that's kind of the other end of the spectrum compared to PAE. Not judging - there are pros and cons both ways.
So you take ownership on arrival at the US port (long Beach in this case), Helmsman does their checkout and commissioning after you own the boat. Then all the accessories like soft goods, electronics, other gear also happens on your ownership. I guess the good part is that you have more control over the process and schedule, and access to the boat in the interim. The down side is that bringing the boat to finished condition is on you, and you don't have any leverage beyond warranty to bring the boat into spec if there are any build issues. All of this is moot when dealing with reputable companies who stand behind their products, but worth noting for others considering a boat build.
Last Point
One final mention on this topic is that I totally agree with you that dealing with a reputable company who stands behind their products is key to a successful purchase. I especially like dealing with the principles of boat building companies (not a dealer network) like PAE and Helmsman. I would not hesitate to contract and build another boat with either company.
Talking about boats, yesterday Mary and I were walking along the public guest docks on Shelter Island, SD and I spotted a N46. We walked down to see who it was and noticed she was older and a little worn. I looked at the transom and realized she was N46001. We were looking at a piece of boating history as she was the original N46 built in 1989 and started the entire PAE trawler history. We later had a chance to talk with the owner (he said he was the 4th or 5th owner) and enjoyed all the great things he had to say about the boat and his voyages. Possibly someday we will find hull number 1 of the Helmsman 38PH??
One final mention on this topic is that I totally agree with you that dealing with a reputable company who stands behind their products is key to a successful purchase. I especially like dealing with the principles of boat building companies (not a dealer network) like PAE and Helmsman. I would not hesitate to contract and build another boat with either company.
Talking about boats, yesterday Mary and I were walking along the public guest docks on Shelter Island, SD and I spotted a N46. We walked down to see who it was and noticed she was older and a little worn. I looked at the transom and realized she was N46001. We were looking at a piece of boating history as she was the original N46 built in 1989 and started the entire PAE trawler history. We later had a chance to talk with the owner (he said he was the 4th or 5th owner) and enjoyed all the great things he had to say about the boat and his voyages. Possibly someday we will find hull number 1 of the Helmsman 38PH??
Last edited by a moderator:
twistedtree
Guru
Yes, he was at the rendezvous in Alaska this past summer.
Codger2
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,691
- Location
- US
- Vessel Name
- Circuit Breaker
- Vessel Make
- 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
I'm watching this commissioning with a great deal of interest as John's boat is just 4 boats away from "Sandpiper." (Same dock!) Although I've read quite a bit about the Helmsman line of boats, the publicity doesn't do this boat justice. It's one "good looking" boat and Renee & I stop for a look every time we go by.
Although the boat is a 38 footer, it appears to be quite larger when seen in her slip. (I like it much better than John's previous Nordhavns!
)To clarify and add detail to the discussion about our "transfer of ownership" process:
Our usual contract has ownership transfer occurring after the boat has been commissioned and demonstrated to the buyer's satisfaction. Closing proceeds and final payment of an agreed percentage held back is made. In John's case this would have occurred in San Diego after delivery.
John chose to contract with his preferred supplier for electronics installation after delivery, so this would have then followed the closing. Otherwise Helmsman Trawlers will install electronics and other post-arrival items as part of the purchase contract and will consider this to be part of the commissioning process prior to delivery.
After their contract to purchase was signed, John and Mary chose to take advantage of low interest rates and arranged for a loan, which was not part of the original agreement. The lender would not lend money without a security interest (as would be usual) in the form of a USCG Preferred Marine Mortgage. To make that happen the actual transfer of ownership took place when the boat was loaded for ocean transport in Shanghai. This allowed the lender's funds to be released for final payment to the yard, and at that point we correspondingly had a confirmed Bill of Lading. The boat was thus in our control and was insured for ocean transport by Helmsman Trawlers.
I hope this helps with understanding. Naturally the security of buyer's funds and the certainty of a boat in exchange is of paramount importance.
So in most cases the "leverage" that twistedtree mentions is assured by the actual closing being scheduled to occur after commissioning and demonstration. But in all cases it is also assured by the importance of reputation -- delivering on our commitments.
Scott Helker
Helmsman Trawlers
Our usual contract has ownership transfer occurring after the boat has been commissioned and demonstrated to the buyer's satisfaction. Closing proceeds and final payment of an agreed percentage held back is made. In John's case this would have occurred in San Diego after delivery.
John chose to contract with his preferred supplier for electronics installation after delivery, so this would have then followed the closing. Otherwise Helmsman Trawlers will install electronics and other post-arrival items as part of the purchase contract and will consider this to be part of the commissioning process prior to delivery.
After their contract to purchase was signed, John and Mary chose to take advantage of low interest rates and arranged for a loan, which was not part of the original agreement. The lender would not lend money without a security interest (as would be usual) in the form of a USCG Preferred Marine Mortgage. To make that happen the actual transfer of ownership took place when the boat was loaded for ocean transport in Shanghai. This allowed the lender's funds to be released for final payment to the yard, and at that point we correspondingly had a confirmed Bill of Lading. The boat was thus in our control and was insured for ocean transport by Helmsman Trawlers.
I hope this helps with understanding. Naturally the security of buyer's funds and the certainty of a boat in exchange is of paramount importance.
So in most cases the "leverage" that twistedtree mentions is assured by the actual closing being scheduled to occur after commissioning and demonstration. But in all cases it is also assured by the importance of reputation -- delivering on our commitments.
Scott Helker
Helmsman Trawlers
rochepoint
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 1,747
- Location
- Sidney BC, Canada
- Vessel Name
- Roche Point
- Vessel Make
- 1985 Cheer Men PT38 Sedan
Welcome Scott!
Scott: Just rhetorical, don't answer. How did you possibly put up with someone who couldn't make up his mind and all the changes? You must be a saint. lol
I would definitely have chosen the route of you completing the commissioning, but understand why he didn't. He enjoys this stuff, you know. You should start working him right now toward the next build.
I would definitely have chosen the route of you completing the commissioning, but understand why he didn't. He enjoys this stuff, you know. You should start working him right now toward the next build.
