New Member Disappointment

I am a new member & have just purchased an Atlantic/Prairie 30 "Moondance". The boat is great, but I have questions about the way the batteries (4 banks) are connected & charged. There is only one battery switch (1-2-Both). I have tried to contact the previous owned through the broker numerous times with no response from the previous owner. I am very disappointed about this. I have sold boats before and was always available to the new owners and answered all of their questions. I know nobody can answer this question, except the person who set it up & used it for a number of years, or an electrician after untold hours of tracing wires. I just wanted to vent my frustration about their non response.

You can treat the batteries like a single battery

Or if you're nervous disconnect the start batt not long after shutdown.

1Sailor said:

I am a new member & have just purchased an Atlantic/Prairie 30 "Moondance". The boat is great, but I have questions about the way the batteries (4 banks) are connected & charged. There is only one battery switch (1-2-Both). I have tried to contact the previous owned through the broker numerous times with no response from the previous owner. I am very disappointed about this. I have sold boats before and was always available to the new owners and answered all of their questions. I know nobody can answer this question, except the person who set it up & used it for a number of years, or an electrician after untold hours of tracing wires. I just wanted to vent my frustration about their non response.

Click to expand...

Sorry for your trouble. Don't sell us short. Take 20 pictures covering all the aspects of the system. Post them in this thread. Most likely we can help you. I'm pretty good at this stuff, but can't analyze what I can't see, so be thorough with your pics,

Ted

1Sailor,

Did you low ball him, nit pick at survey, etc.? This can leave a real bad taste in the sellers mouth. It happened when I sold my house. The guy was a total A..hole about everything, then somehow thought we would be buddies, and I would help with a bunch of stuff. Don't think so.

1Sailor said:

I am a new member & have just purchased an Atlantic/Prairie 30 "Moondance". The boat is great, but I have questions about the way the batteries (4 banks) are connected & charged. There is only one battery switch (1-2-Both). I have tried to contact the previous owned through the broker numerous times with no response from the previous owner. I am very disappointed about this. I have sold boats before and was always available to the new owners and answered all of their questions. I know nobody can answer this question, except the person who set it up & used it for a number of years, or an electrician after untold hours of tracing wires. I just wanted to vent my frustration about their non response.

Click to expand...

Welcome.

Sorry about the frustration. You may be able to find a contact number for the PO through the marina where the boat was kept and skip the broker.

If the only switch is a 1/2/Both/Off switch it shouldn't be all that hard to see how it is wired. I would also consider how you would want the switch to be wired and then go from there.

Thanks for your reply. The way the wiring is done, VERY NEAT BUNDLES going into the battery switch, I'm not sure which bank is the engine start & the house bank 1or 2. I want to be able to anchor out, from time to time, and have 12 volt refrigeration going. I want to be sure that the engine start batteries are not being discharged and I have the power to start the engine. A simple response from the previous owner would be an easy & polite thing to do!

Just use an amp clamp on individual banks with a load on, then cycle switch. Easypeasy

I made an offer on the boat that was accepted. The survey naturally came up with a few MINOR issues that were taken care of. I didn't knit pick, or make a big deal about anything. Nobody forced them to accept mu offer. The boat was up for sale for 2 years or so. I sold boats and didn't get close to what I thought I should, but I was a gentleman about it and personally went through the boat with the new owner, gave him my cell# & answered all of his questions that came up even after weeks later.

Just asking, he might be bitter after 2 years on the market, it could just be the broker not passing it on. Anyway, do you understand the amp clamp suggestion?

Sealife said:

1Sailor,

Did you low ball him, nit pick at survey, etc.? This can leave a real bad taste in the sellers mouth. It happened when I sold my house. The guy was a total A..hole about everything, then somehow thought we would be buddies, and I would help with a bunch of stuff. Don't think so.

Click to expand...

If you only have a single switch, 1,2,both,off, then you only have 2 banks, 1 and 2. Likely the batteries are 3 House, 1 Engine. Sould be easily verified with a clamp Ammeter.

koliver said:

If you only have a single switch, 1,2,both,off, then you only have 2 banks, 1 and 2. Likely the batteries are 3 House, 1 Engine. Sould be easily verified with a clamp Ammeter.

Click to expand...

Well said Sir.

Basically if you have a two way switch there are only two separate battery packs.

Your system is 12 volts, so there is either one battery in each of the two packs, or a whole load of them wired in parallel.

So you can treat your batteries regardless of how many there are as just two separate single batteries with a simple switch between them.

Greetings,
Mr. 1S. Get a beverage and a note pad. Turn selector switch (SS) to off. What works? Hopefully not much other than your bilge pump(s). Open fridge door to see of light works. Try to start engine.
Turn SS to 1. Same deal as above. What works and what doesn't?
Turn SS to 2. Same deal as above. What works and what doesn't?
Again, hopefully, when the SS is in the ALL position, everything works. Should be a simple process to determine which of your 2 battery banks (as mentioned above) is starting and which is house.
Drink beverage.

There are actually 4 separate banks of batteries, one under the V berth for the bow thruster, one on the forward starboard side of the engine, & two on the aft port side of the engine.. I do understand the clamp on Amp suggestion. The wires are not easily seen, and are bundled neatly, and since there is only one switch,??? I will be able to figure this all out after crawling around the boat & bilge. I started this thread only to voice my frustration in not being able to get a response from the previous owner. It would be easy for him to answer these questions, even through a third party (the broker).

I also want to see if I can leave the switch on "Both" as it is and that there is a diode to prevent the engine start battery from discharging. I did cycle the switch from 1 then 2 & all of the house lights worked on both settings.

I am going to "Moondance" now to play some more. Thank you all for your replies!

I would never even think of calling the PO with questions. At the risk of sounding harsh, read a book, ask neighbors, pay someone, or ask questions on forums.

Honestly, I wouldn't return your calls if I were the PO either. Not because of you or anything you did. It's just it's not my !@##$# problem anymore. It's your problem now. I have my own @#$$% to deal with and don't need to hold the hand of the new owner with every question they had.

Think about it from the PO's perspective. If he really wanted to keep working on the boat they wouldn't have sold it. He was tired of dealing with the boat when the problems were his. He could certainly care less about your problems now.

A good surveyor should have gone through the various on, 1,2, off connections to verify working not working systems. Ask him your questions. He may have your answer(s) in his survey notes.

"I know nobody can answer this question, except the person who set it up & used it for a number of years, or an electrician after untold hours of tracing wires. I just wanted to vent my frustration about their non response."


When you were in the process of purchasing the boat and describing what was included with the boat was there any conversation about support or calls after the sale? Did you ask for and/or get a walk through of the boat by the prior owner as a requirement of the sale? Was there any agreement on what exact paperwork and systems descriptions were included prior to the sale? Did the broker commit to specific support functions that were to be delivered after the sale? Did your surveyor agreement include a walk through or follow either before or after the sale that included systems explanation?
What was the expectations that were set by the purchasing agreement and any of the follow on emails and/or letters?

FOG said:

A good surveyor should have gone through the various on, 1,2, off connections to verify working not working systems. Ask him your questions. He may have your answer(s) in his survey notes.

Click to expand...

Are you serious?

BobH said:

Are you serious?

Click to expand...

Of course. The PO didn't know the answer to a question I had on a boat I bought earlier this year, so I called the surveyor and he gave me the answer.

You don't know the circumstances of the sale or of the prior owner. They may have far more important issues to deal with or the boat could even be a bad memory or something that hung over them terribly for two years. I can't imagine it personally, but some people are so in need of selling a boat and when that happens want nothing to ever do with it again. I just think it's unfair to judge when one doesn't know.

1Sailor said:

There are actually 4 separate banks of batteries, one under the V berth for the bow thruster, one on the forward starboard side of the engine, & two on the aft port side of the engine.. I do understand the clamp on Amp suggestion. The wires are not easily seen, and are bundled neatly, and since there is only one switch,??? I will be able to figure this all out after crawling around the boat & bilge.

Click to expand...

Let us know what you find out, I am now curious. Typically, with a 1/2/Both switch one position will be the engine start and another will be the house bank. However, if you have a thruster battery as well I am suspicious that your 1/2/Both switches may only be for the house since the house lights worked in both position 1 and position 2.

Try this, if the switch is in the "Off" position, will your engine start or your thruster run? With the switch in the Off position will your house lights operate?

1Sailor said:

There are actually 4 separate banks of batteries, one under the V berth for the bow thruster, one on the forward starboard side of the engine, & two on the aft port side of the engine.. I do understand the clamp on Amp suggestion. The wires are not easily seen, and are bundled neatly, and since there is only one switch,??? I will be able to figure this all out after crawling around the boat & bilge. I started this thread only to voice my frustration in not being able to get a response from the previous owner. It would be easy for him to answer these questions, even through a third party (the broker).

Click to expand...

Logic would dictate that the batts forward would be dedicated to the thruster. Probably charged through an echo charger, separate bank feature on the board charger or an ACR. Next the two batts are probably the house bank. single batt is most likely for starting.

If you are worried about the house bank draining the starting batt... I would install an ACR between the start and house battery... If the switch is installed with position one being the start battery then you can just leave the switch in that position and your house will be isolated..

Just hope logic holds true.

The thruster bank is probably separate from everything else. Not sure about how you'd configure 3 other banks through only one switch. My prairie has a selector switch (1-2-both-off) for each engine. The rest of the 12V system is powered through another selector switch on the 12V breaker panel (also 1-2-both-off).

If I wanted to expand my house bank, I'd probably end up having to physically split it between two different locations. Could that be how you ended up with what looks like 4 banks?

When I bought my Prairie, the PO had made some very foolish modifications to the battery system. In the end all batteries needed to be replaced and a few mis-wired connections needed to be undone.

My point is, don't assume it makes sense. Trace the wires, use volt a meter or whatever it takes to determine what's connected to what.

I guess it could happen. Never ran across a surveyor who knew more than how to collect a check.

BobH said:

I guess it could happen. Never ran across a surveyor who knew more than how to collect a check.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to reassess your process of selecting a surveyor. There are many excellent ones.

I never felt that it was the role of a surveyor to diagram the electrical system of a boat. They are there to ensure that stuff works, that stuff is safe, not to necessary figure out switch configuration.

BobH said:

I guess it could happen. Never ran across a surveyor who knew more than how to collect a check.

Click to expand...

I'm sure they are out there. Probably the same surveyors that say they are too busy after I finish my interview with them on the phone.

Just a side note. Both of the previous owners of my boat, "Southerly" are deceased. Totally on my own. dhays is right. My surveyor could only tell me whether system were working or not. You will get the hang of it.

Funny story yesterday. Decided to fill the water holding tank and try the water. Well it didn't work and I was pretty tired. Started trying switches and found FWP. Yup, Fresh water pump. Duh for me! LOL!!

Welcome to the forum and ask any question you would like. You will probably get 50 different answers. All are helpful believe it or not!

Given that you have a thruster, house bank, a starter, and "four banks". I would confirm that you do in fact have only a single battery switch. We had switches for each engine, the bow thruster (batteries forward), and the the house banks. Total 4 independent switches similar to the one you describe, and those were in addition to multiple independent breakers. Just make sure you have not missed a switch or two!!