Soft Shackle

Does anyone use a soft shackle to secure their anchor snubber to the chain? I have an enclosed pulpit and any hardware could bind when passing thru. What do you all think?

It would work fine, a does a simple rolling hitch, but I don't like the idea of the snubber running down through the pulpit and roller. Not sure exactly what you mean by "enclosed" pulpit though. For me, with the roller/chute surrounded by the pulpit proper, I had no issue putting the chain plate on with a reach around or reach through the chute for that matter; it was big enough to accommodate my hand and arm.

FredB said:

Does anyone use a soft shackle to secure their anchor snubber to the chain? I have an enclosed pulpit and any hardware could bind when passing thru. What do you all think?

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That is what I am doing now. Initially I was just using a hitch to attach my bridle to my anchor chain but it occasionally would slip a little making me have less confidence in it. Currently I am using a dynema "shockles line grabber" around the anchor chain and attaching my bridle to it using a soft shackle. The soft shackles I made but the shockles line grabber I bought from defender. On my chain I actually wrap it around the chain twice.

For the bridle I use two 25' lengths of nylon three strand. On one end I have spliced a nylon thimble and the other just a 12" loop. Both thimbles are attached to the line grabber on the chain with a dynema shackle.

I also have a snubber with a chain hook. My procedure is before I set my anchor I attach the snubber so it and the cleat take the load. Once the anchor is set I attach the bridle above to the chain and let out the chain so the bridle takes the load. I can adjust how much bridle is out by adjusting each of the nylon lines through the hawse holes. I then reattach the snubber so that if the bridle should fail, the snubber would take the load rather than the windlass. It now is very quick for me to do this after only a short time using this system.

I use a soft shackle. I just run it through one link of chain and through the spliced eye on the end of a line. Cleat the bitter end of the line on deck and let the anchor chain out until the line is taking the weight. Works great, and you don't have to deal with a chain hook that falls off.

twistedtree said:

I use a soft shackle. I just run it through one link of chain and through the spliced eye on the end of a line. Cleat the bitter end of the line on deck and let the anchor chain out until the line is taking the weight. Works great, and you don't have to deal with a chain hook that falls off.

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Do you notice any chafing of the shackle? That was my concern when I considered doing what you describe. Maybe I will give that a try, it would save me one step.

OK, I'll be the guinea pig here....what is a soft shackle?

GFC said:

OK, I'll be the guinea pig here....what is a soft shackle?

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https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22soft+shackle%22+dyneema&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=7BaaV4anLKSwjwTKobLQAw

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-...-soft-connectors-soft-shackle-small--12501904

GFC said:

OK, I'll be the guinea pig here....what is a soft shackle?

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Here is how I make mine, but there are other techniques. I will usually sit down and make several at a time and always have a few at hand. They were much more useful on the sailboat obviously, but I have found uses on "Kinship" as well.

Edit: forgot to post the link. http://l-36.com/soft_shackle_9.php

dhays said:

Do you notice any chafing of the shackle? That was my concern when I considered doing what you describe. Maybe I will give that a try, it would save me one step.

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That was my concern as well, but others I know who use them report excellent results. I've honestly only used mine a couple of times, so it's too early to report on wear. We have a chain lock built into the boat and most times I use that, reverting to a snubber only when there is more weather. The weight of the chain is a pretty darn good snubber unless it's really blowing, and even then the primary benefit of the snubber is to keep the chain from moving in the roller and making a lot of noise.

I tried to use the shakle through a chain link last night when anchoring. It would have worked but would have taken a bit of work to feed the shackle through the link. Using the shockles line grabber was actually easier.

I really wish I had a chain lock on the boat. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to figure out a good place to install one.

With my windlass, the chain is pretty high off the surface of the pulpit and the roller pivots. You can see that I have a chain hook and snubber line that is holding the chain. This is simply a backup right now as my bridle is taking the load. I use that snubber with the anchor is up to take the weight of the anchor off the windlass. A chain lock would allow me to get rid off the snubber.

I bought mine from ropes.com in Florida. They make them to order in whatever size you want, and will advise on what's best. Cost for mine was about $35, and suitable for 1/2" chain and a 130,000lb boat.

That said, they look pretty easy to make and I will probably try that next time.

I have a question, what is the advantage of a soft shackle over a chain hook? I'm assuming an all chain rode.

twistedtree; said:

We have a chain lock built into the boat and most times I use that, reverting to a snubber only when there is more weather. The weight of the chain is a pretty darn good snubber unless it's really blowing, and even then the primary benefit of the snubber is to keep the chain from moving in the roller and making a lot of noise.

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Can you elaborate on that for me please. How is a lock different from a chain hook and how does your lock replace a snubber. I guess pics would really work for an old brain.

Thanks.

Ka_sea_ta said:

I have a question, what is the advantage of a soft shackle over a chain hook? I'm assuming an all chain rode.

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The soft shackle doesn't fall off. That was the big advantage for me. All the chain hooks I have used require that you maintain tension on the line or the hook can fall away form the chain and become disconnected. Some hooks might fall off if the conditions are right, and some instantly fall off with any slack on the line. The soft shackle won't come off.

Also, you can run the soft shackle over a roller with ease. Some hooks just go clunk clunk over a roller, and other you wouldn't even want to try running it over.

In my experience so far, which admittedly is limited, is that the soft shackle is superior in every way, including cost. Made-for-purpose chain hooks can get very pricey.

They also won't chip your gelcoat when dropped on the deck, won't wear down the galvanizing and don't weaken the chain.

Hawgwash said:

Can you elaborate on that for me please. How is a lock different from a chain hook and how does your lock replace a snubber. I guess pics would really work for an old brain.

Thanks.

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These pictures might help. The first is the windlass and you can see the chain lock just forward where the chain runs through it.

Next is a close up (sort of) of the chain lock. The hinged thingy has a tab on the end that locks down in between two of the chain links and takes all the chain load off the windlass. We have that short section of shock cord on it to hold the catch out of the way when raising and lowering the anchor.

Your picture shows how a chain lock could be added to my boat. I see that yours is on a stainless riser to get it up to the chain height.

Make that TWO old brains. There's something I'm missing here.


Sign me....old brain GFC

dhays said:

Your picture shows how a chain lock could be added to my boat. I see that yours is on a stainless riser to get it up to the chain height.

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Yes, but I don't know if that riser was fabricated by the yard or if that's something that comes with the lock. I'm pretty sure the lock is made by Maxwell who are also the windlass manufacturer.

Looking at your boat pictures, an appropriately fabricated mounting bracket would probably do the trick.

The other style chain lock that I've seen is a chain hook on one end and either a turn buckle or cam lock (like on a binder for holding down heavy equipment for transport) to snug it up. These often double as a lock-down for the anchor which is handy. But my chain lock can't do that.

You keep tension on the hook by having a big lazy loop of chain out behind it, which has the added benefit of adding weight to the "system". In hundreds of nights on the hook in all sorts of conditions, never had our chain plate-type hook fall off. Never had a rolling hitch slip either, including in some sustained multi-day 20+ winds.

Have to admit some of these schemes described above look way too complicated. And some sound like the snubber line runs through the pulpit, introducing chafe potential.

twistedtree said:

These pictures might help. The first is the windlass and you can see the chain lock just forward where the chain runs through it.

Next is a close up (sort of) of the chain lock. The hinged thingy has a tab on the end that locks down in between two of the chain links and takes all the chain load off the windlass. We have that short section of shock cord on it to hold the catch out of the way when raising and lowering the anchor.

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Thanks Peter. I have seen those before. On here, even. Works like an old winch gear dog.

That setup still puts a good bit of downward pull on the bow hardware/pulpit, no?

I took some pictures of my setup.



This is the link e grabber wrapped around the chain. The loop there is what my shackle goes through.






Not sure how well this will show up. The shackle is connected through both pieces of the bridle and through the loop of the line grabber.

dhays; said:

View attachment 54694
Not sure how well this will show up. The shackle is connected through both pieces of the bridle and through the loop of the line grabber.

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Then Medusa goes overboard?

Looks complicated. Might be just the pic though.
Would that be easy enough to deal with in the middle of the night in a panic?

Yeah, just the picture. It isn't complicated at all

caltexflanc said:

You keep tension on the hook by having a big lazy loop of chain out behind it, which has the added benefit of adding weight to the "system". In hundreds of nights on the hook in all sorts of conditions, never had our chain plate-type hook fall off. Never had a rolling hitch slip either, including in some sustained multi-day 20+ winds.

Have to admit some of these schemes described above look way too complicated. And some sound like the snubber line runs through the pulpit, introducing chafe potential.

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Once deployed, having the hook fall out is not an issue. All the trouble I've had has been during deployment of the snubber line + hook. If there is any slack on the snubber as you pay out the chain, the hook drops off and you have to start all over again. I think the degree to which this happens depends on the style of chain hook that you use, and perhaps I made a couple of bad choices when I bought hooks, but I have had poor success with them.

Hawgwash said:

Thanks Peter. I have seen those before. On here, even. Works like an old winch gear dog.

That setup still puts a good bit of downward pull on the bow hardware/pulpit, no?

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Yes, good point. it definitely requires that the lock be mounted to a strong point on the boat. If you don't have such a spot, it won't be a good approach. Mine is on the main deck of the hull, not out on the pulpit. And that section of the deck is all reinforced for the purpose and is also where the main deck cleats are mounted. But the chain still goes over the pulpit roller so that takes all the force too. So use of a lock like mine should not exceed your confidence in the strength of your lock mount point and/or your pulpit.

I should have also said that I would NOT rely on the lock for storm anchoring. I would be perfectly comfortable with it up to 20-30kt winds, but if there were chance of more I would favor a snubber through both hause pipes and cleated off on deck. That brings us back to the soft shackle, and explains why I've only used it a couple of times.

I can't remember if I've had the chain hook fall out when deploying or not, perhaps I got lucky when I bought the hook. I would think that if the hook falling out was an issue , dipping the hook in a flexible plastic coating would help solve that problem.

I have less experience that almost all of you. Even up with my sailboat we haven't anchored all that much.

The pulpit on my boat is reasonably robust, even so I wouldn't want to put too much force on it as others have mentioned. Here are what I see as my needs.

1. Secure the anchor. The PO of my boat used a small line tied to the anchor shackle and cleated to the cleat next to the windlass. This was effective but cumbersome. Instead, I have opted to use a SS chain hook on a 6' length of nylon 3 strand. When the ancho is raised, I place the chain hook on the chain and then clear down the snubber. I then realize the tension on the windlass so the weight of the anchor is held by the snubber.

2. Set the anchor. I have been using the same chain hook and snubber line for this. When the ancho is down and just before I set it, I place the chain hook on the chain and relax the windlass. I can then set the anchor with all the load being taken by the clear next to the windlass.

3. Secure the rode overnight. This is where I use the bridle. The anchor is already set, the engine is shut down, and we are completely secure. I take the thimble end of each bridle leg and pass it up and thought the pulpit (this is the only awkward part as I have to bend down to do it). These are then shackled to the chain with the soft shackle and line grabber. This is very quick and easy. Then each end of the bridle is passed through the hawse holes and cleated. I then release the snubber and let out chain so the load is taken by the bridle. I can let out up to 25' of bridle depending on the anticipated conditions. I then re-hook the snubber on the chain as a backup to the bridle. All of this may take me 1-2 minutes since I don't move fast.

Now, if I am sure of the weather and am in a very protected anchorage, I don't bother with the bridle. Then I will simply use the snubber. The chain hook I have will easily pass over the rollers and through my pulpit. I will have about a 4' length of line on it. If I want more line on a snubber, but don't want to use the bridle, I will just use the soft shackle with a single leg of my bridle line and pass it through the bow rollers.

What would be nice is to have a chain lock. I could use it instead of the snubber for #1 and #2 above. It wouldn't really be any quicker than using the snubber, but then I could eliminate that line on the deck all the time. That is where Twisted's chain lock would be nice. I will have to check with the builder and see what he thinks about mounting one in front of the windlass.

The chain lock isn't very good for securing the anchor while stowed. I find that I want the chain and anchor pulled tight so the anchor isn't wiggling or flopping around is the seas get rough. Since the chain lock that I have is in a fixed position, it will never hold the anchor tight in the pulpit. I currently do the same as you - use a chain hook on a line pulled tight and cleated off. I think this is where a cam lock or turnbuckle chain lock can do better by serving as both a storage tie down as well as a mild weather lock when the anchor is deployed. But the ones I've seen are more cumbersome to deploy so you end up trading off ease of use for multi function.

twistedtree said:

The chain lock isn't very good for securing the anchor while stowed. I find that I want the chain and anchor pulled tight so the anchor isn't wiggling or flopping around is the seas get rough. Since the chain lock that I have is in a fixed position, it will never hold the anchor tight in the pulpit. I currently do the same as you - use a chain hook on a line pulled tight and cleated off. I think this is where a cam lock or turnbuckle chain lock can do better by serving as both a storage tie down as well as a mild weather lock when the anchor is deployed. But the ones I've seen are more cumbersome to deploy so you end up trading off ease of use for multi function.

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Good point about the chain lock not being tight. I hadn't thought of that. I have seen the other type that you mention, but as you said, it adds some complexity making the simple chain hook and snubber maybe a better storage solution. And if I already have one in place, then I might as well keep using it to set the anchor as I have been.