Insurance in Australia - The worlds gone mad

This boat I am getting that is coming out of the water Monday for underwater inspection before parting with the bucks and starting work was always going to be a liveaboard, a full time cruiser, living mostly on the hook.

A month ago I called a few places in Australia, told them my intentions and all was good, subject to survey, not a problem they say.

Today when I call to clarify and confirm their attitude has changed.
Today they are not interested in insuring it unless I have a 12 mth lease on a Marina berth where it will be parked most of the time. No pile moorings or mooring buoys allowed.
So shell out $1300/mth for something I will use for several days a year at most.

WTF! Its a boat, it is made to be out there being used not attached to a marina most of its life.

To make matters even more ridiculous I cant get into a marina even if I wanted to because......you guessed it, I dont have insurance.
Cant come out of the water without insurance, technically cant use a fuel dock without insurance (24hour fuel docks are a work around) and here in Australia we now have to have wreck removal and cleanup insurance and I cant get that by itself as its part of full comprehensive.
No third party includes it.

So at this stage at 5:05 on a Friday afternoon and a travel lift booked for Monday at my expense I want out of the deal.

I'm in Oz as well,on a mooring most the time,no marina locally.
We insure with Club Marine,no drama's except a slightly higher premium because I'm not on a marina anymore, mind you the only times that my boat has been damaged has been when on a marina berth.
Not sure why they are making life hard for you, insurers are a weird lot.

stornoway7 said:

I'm in Oz as well,on a mooring most the time

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Yeah, spoke to Maritime QLD about a mooring, would have to sink and upkeep my own after a lengthy approval process and it wouldn't be anywhere you would actually want but I didn't care as I wouldn't use it anyway.

The dealbreaker on that was the pricks said it had to have the boat on it at least 6mths of the year or else it gets taken off me, so effectively, NO CRUISING ALLOWED.

Simi, how many companies did you try..? What you say worries me also, because although I have a marina berth, I was thinking of just moving it to Bribie when we move there and putting it on a swing mooring, and saving a fair bit by only getting third party, and renting the marina berth at Horizon Shores out. Sadly won't happen soon enough to help you.

However, if what you say is true, and you can't include damage to other boats, and associated 3rd party and environmental risks, without having full comprehensive on it, then that blows my idea out of the water. Where are you based - or would be based - if you go ahead..?

Peter B said:

Simi, how many companies did you try..?

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Nautilus, club marine, RACQ, Youi, Trident, GIO, oceanic, even got super desperate and sent an online quote to Northern Reef

What you say worries me also, because although I have a marina berth, I was thinking of just moving it to Bribie when we move there and putting it on a swing mooring, and saving a fair bit by only getting third party, and renting the marina berth at Horizon Shores out. Sadly won't happen soon enough to help you.

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Club Marine will do a swinger, Nautilus will not

Where are you based - or would be based - if you go ahead..?

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Wynnum/Manly area.

Try Anchorage Marine

Simi 60 said:

Nautilus, club marine, RACQ, Youi, Trident, GIO, oceanic, even got super desperate and sent an online quote to Northern Reef

Club Marine will do a swinger, Nautilus will not

Wynnum/Manly area.

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I'm with Club Marine, and have been for 14 years. Might be ok then. What would they not cover you for..?

Peter B said:

I'm with Club Marine, and have been for 14 years. Might be ok then. What would they not cover you for..?

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They would not cover me because I dont have a permanent mooring or marina berth.

I have no need of one as I will be using the boat and cant take a mooring or marina berth with me.

Even if I was able to get a swing mooring for a 60fter, purely for insurance purposes and leave it vacant while off using the boat, MSQ say they will take it of of me if the boat is not on it for 6mths of the year.

Aquabelle said:

Try Anchorage Marine

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Ominous question in their form
Will the vessel be moored?

Truthfully I would have to answer NO
It will be when it is, when its not it will be at anchor or on the hard.
If I am leaving the vessel for more than a day I will take a mooring.

Or should I look at these questions as YES...........until its not.

Fascinating reading guys. I am sorry for the trouble you are undergoing. But I am very interested in the details as I had no idea that the lack of a permanent mooring (slip in the US) could be a problem.

My best.

Simi,
It all depends on how you answer the questions with out being dis honest.
Will the boat be moored....Yes. (it is always moored, one way or another)
Take a berth some where whilst you get your insurance and then go cruising,let the company know that you will be away with in their guide lines. I used to own a berth but no longer do so and just marina hop when not on board other wise find some one with a back yard berth that will let you stay(60' may be a bit hard).
I have been with Club for 25 years and they have never been a problem, your perceptions on the way you are going to operate may be getting in the way of a successful policy,.
I hope you can resolve this issue.

Tidahapah said:

Simi,
It all depends on how you answer the questions with out being dis honest.
Will the boat be moored....Yes. (it is always moored, one way or another)

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Yeah, but next part of the question is "how will it be moored - swing mooring or Marina?"

Take a berth some where whilst you get your insurance and then go cruising,let the company know that you will be away with in their guide lines.

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May work with some, Nauitilus as an example wanted to sight a marina contract for the term of insurance so 12 mths.

Reality is I will probably need a berth for a month to finish and finalise some stuff onboard and around the house so I'll give club marine a run again next week

I`m with Club Marine, I`ve found them good to talk to. Maritime Qld is your real problem. When I moved off a swing mooring to a marina I got a small discount and a reduced excess(deductible) for loss occurring at the marina.
Don`t be tempted to "fudge" answers to insurers questions, you have a duty of full disclosure. Mess that up and you may negate any cover.
Friends total loss of their sailboat last year was very well handled by Club Marine. Even set up a temporary office in a nearby Gosford yacht club for the multiple claims in the area, and paid out for total loss in 2 weeks. So far I`ve never claimed, here`s hoping never. An insurer can be judged on its claims performance.

BruceK,
I have had a couple of claims with Club Marine and it is the reason I am still with them as I have friends who have had considerable trouble claiming with some of the other so called marine insurer's.

Ditto for me with Club Marine,no problem with the one claim I made about 5 years ago.
One of the few insurance companies I would recommend.

I once tried getting a quote from GIO(Suncorp), rep seemed to know zilch about boats, not cheap either.
Benn and Stornoway, good to hear other positive reports. Club Marine is part of Allianz, rather than a small underwriter placing business who knows where.

Ditto for me with my one claim, when someone leaving their berth whacked off a davit years ago. No-one owned up, but some time later, when witnessing the tactics an old fellow used to exit his berth, I think that question was answered.

Simi, Why not just get a mooring where you think of as home base, and advise the insurer of this (? Club Marine), and let the Maritime Qld folk worry about counting the days you're not on it. I suspect while that 6/12 thing is the 'official' version, as they have to have some sort of condition, it is probably not policed all that vigorously, especially when you could probably swing by and spend the odd night there during your comings and goings..?

Peter, or just have a friend hang off it now and again, I don't know if they check the rego nos on a regular basis or not.

Another + for Club Marine from me, although I have not made any claims. I don't need to tell them when I leave my marina berth to go cruising. I am not aware of any limits regarding time at nominated/home berth versus time elsewhere, be it mooring ball or at anchor. Simi, given you need a month or so in a marina to get things organised before you head off, why don't you take a marina berth on a casual basis and then supply those details for insurance?

I'm at Dockside Marina, Kangaroo Point. There is maintenance work in progress but there are some vacant 18m berths. If your LOA is 60' you might still be OK. What is your beam? That might be a show stopper, depending on specific berth. Drawbacks are CityCat wakes during the day, parking and significant currents when entering or leaving berth. I always time it for slack water. If interested, phone Bob (Marina Manager) and discuss options. If your beam is Ok you could go into E8 beside me.

Tidahapah said:

Peter, or just have a friend hang off it now and again, I don't know if they check the rego nos on a regular basis or not.

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Can`t comment on Qld but down here a BSO(Boating Service Officer)works each area. He/she monitors boats on moorings, they notice if you are off it for a long period, I found them amenable to extending absence time periods. They would probably notice a boat not the one allocated the mooring space.
Nothing is certain but why not take up a mooring license? Get the apparatus installed, use it, later seek or negotiate absences. Assuming you can get one for that size boat. Sure there are some $ at risk, but a marina berth for that size boat is expensive, even if you lost it after a while you`d be ahead on marina fees.
Club Marine will cover older boats, they need a survey at inception and every 5 years. They may give you some time to fix things initial survey raises.

Like he said.

Two fall back options although I have no idea what they'll look like price wise for you. Pantaenius and Lloyd's. They would deal more with cruising boats not staying regularly at a specific marina.

BandB said:

Two fall back options although I have no idea what they'll look like price wise for you. Pantaenius and Lloyd's. They would deal more with cruising boats not staying regularly at a specific marina.

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Yes, I would definitely approach Pantaenius for a quote. They have recently extended their operations to the Pacific and are quite competitive regarding quotes.A mate of mine just changed his insurance from Club Marine to Pantaenius(40' Cat) and saved quite a lot on the premium. Also they are one of the few companies that will do true agreed value insurance(Club Marine do not).

FWIW they are located at the Spit in Sydney. Have a chat with Adam Brown he runs their claims side I think, he's a boaty from way back.

Having said all of the above I am with Club Marine and have had cause to use them over the years. Some of the claims have been quite substantial, through no fault of my own though, They paid the claims promptly and I have always found their assessors to be very professional.

Pantaenius has been mentioned. My friends who lost their sailboat/yacht in the huge east coast low last year told me that Pantaenius sent text messages to their insureds in the area, after the wind had picked up to 35-40 knots (at which it stayed for about 3 days) suggesting owners of boats on swing moorings go out to their boats(presumably by dinghy) to check their moorings and attachments. Safety first gentlemen, safety first. Would your cover be affected if you prudently declined the suggestion, hopefully not.
I received something similar from Club Marine this year, but a day or so before a predicted nasty weather event.

Having filled out a form to inquire about insurance with Pantaenius, they really only asked how the boat would be moored, either marina or floating mooring. This I assume is only when the boat is not being used and also there was no request to show ownership of such berth or mooring so I don't think the problem is insurmountable.

Tidahapah said:

Having filled out a form to inquire about insurance with Pantaenius, they really only asked how the boat would be moored, either marina or floating mooring. This I assume is only when the boat is not being used and also there was no request to show ownership of such berth or mooring so I don't think the problem is insurmountable.

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They have many long range cruisers that haven't seen their home in years.