You have just been boarded by the CG.

I understand that the CG is exempt from having to observe 4th Amendment protections as regards boaters. They can board anyone at any time they want to, period. Not the question I have. My question is that upon boarding, one wants to cooperate as much as possible to make things go smoothly but how far does that extend? If say some JG or deckhand comes aboard and starts giving the boat owner orders like pull that hatch, open that closet, lift that heavy eng cover etc, how much is the boat owner expected to put up with? I would be inclined to tell them, "hey pal, you came aboard uninvited so if you want something done, do it yourself." Does anyone know the truth of the matter? Thanks

Never been boarded in the 21st century by the USCG despite (or because of) berthing and boating within a quarter-mile of one of their stations. Here, they appear to have more important duties. (When boating in the 1960s and 1980s, can't recall ever seeing the Guard except for cutters berthed in Alameda.)



Regardless, I'd be respectful and compliant.

There going to find the illegal aliens you're smuggling, stop now.

Be polite and follow their directives. If you can't comply, explain why. They will do the searching without you so that you don't grab your gun. They are somewhat flexible if you have a cooperative attitude. If your going to be an a$$, bring KY cause there well within mission statement to make your life and boat miserable.

Ted

But again, what is the legal obligation of the owner? Of course one wants to be polite etc., otherwise things don't go well with most authority. But at what point can the owner say, no, you do that.

Reasonable can be a tricky thing to define....

Either work with them the best you can....or they can make things pretty bad......

Most likely they wont...but they don't know how your boat works or is put together...so they will ask you to do a lot...if unable, explain and ask to be helped.

A good example is certain types of latches and locks aren't easily figured out.they dont min doi g the lifting...they juse don want to damaze something and get the bill..

We were boarded by the CG just last week. They were very polite and just checked paper work and safety equipment. This was the third time we had been boarded over a ten year period and every one of those we had no problems, we found the CG to always be friendly and polite. You treat them with respect and they treat you the same. Just remember when something bad happens out there you'll be calling them.

The coast guard wears several hats including law enforcement, fisheries enforcement, boating safety, port security, customs, etc. They can seize your boat and confine you, but not without reason. They are people, too. So when you are an a-hole there is a possibility they might be one too.
On the other hand, if you're in trouble on the water you couldn't have a better friend.
I've been on the water about 60 years and boarded twice, 40 years apart. Everybody was professional.
Boardings go easy if you know the regs and have your vessel in compliance. Well run boats that look shipshape get fewer boardings.

All of the above. I have been boarded several times by each of the dozen or so agencies that have that authority here in South Florida, or so it seems like. The USCG is by far the most professional and polite, FMP is the opposite. County and City water cops are OK, and the Rangers are usually very polite too.

You pull that Sea Lawyer stuff on a guy just trying to do his job and it may not go well.

78puget-trawler said:

But again, what is the legal obligation of the owner? Of course one wants to be polite etc., otherwise things don't go well with most authority. But at what point can the owner say, no, you do that.

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Removed as we are from your CG, polite cooperation is best. Each boarding could be electronically recorded by CG, smart ass behavior, tempting as it is, could see you marked as uncooperative. Might even increase boardings if they access boat records before deciding to board.

We were boarded twice in 2015. Just be respectful and they will also. The second boarding was a very cool morning in NC early April. The cabin was warm. They did not want to get back into their open boat. I asked why they keep pulling over a relatively new slow trawler with two rather portly middle aged cruisers. They said "Because trawlers are so much easier to inspect than sailboats."

78puget-trawler said:

But again, what is the legal obligation of the owner? Of course one wants to be polite etc., otherwise things don't go well with most authority. But at what point can the owner say, no, you do that.

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Heck, you can tell them they can't board if you feel doing so would endanger you and your vessel say due to sea conditions.

I've been boarded a number of times. In one instance I ending up handcuffed to the bow rail of a cutter sitting on a mattress with blankets for shade for 10+ hours till we were released after they determined the cocaine they found on board really wasn't ours. (The cutter did get to put snow flakes on it's bridge sides though for finding it.)

But in every instance, including that one, the CG folks were always polite but business like. In some cases they were down right easy going.

So I'd say like most situations in life, with the USCG, you get back what you give off.

Of course I'm sure there are exceptions from time to time.

Boarded last year, all of my documents and equipment were right on top of my stack so the inspection was fast and they appreciated not having to wait while I searched for required items. It's a pretty superficial inspection, so they are unlikely to actually look for anything unless they are looking for something specific. I know what my shortcomings are and they never found them, I would make life easy for them and myself by complying...

Well OK, other than having several posts warn me not to be an *******, I guess I didn't really get my question answered. Be polite and compliant. Sure, duh! But I guess no one here really knows the actual answer if indeed there is one to be had. Which is what level of cooperation is required as I asked such as physically making access to the party for inspection such as lifting up heavy tables, and deck sections over the eng room etc. No intention of trying to be a "sea lawyer". I will confess it does irk me and I know I am not alone in this, that our 4th Amendment protections under the Bill of Rights do not extend to being on a boat! I had thought I might learn something other than "be nice", LOL! Sort of.

So far no luck with your question Puget. A phone call to the local CG office might give you a quick answer.

Read up on exactly what the USCG can do for a safety and compliance "inspection" boarding.....it is far from a "search" of your vessel.

It irritates me that people always bring up the fourth amendment like they carry it around I their wallet, complain about the USCG having the ability to ignore it...but the have never researched exactly what the USCG can and can't do during a boarding. It is no where close to a warrantless search.

The answer to your question is.....yes you have to make available the spaces they are allowed to search. They usually can look into man sized compartments or bilge areas without major rearranging of a boats interior. If you know an easier way for them to inspect what they need too...just tell them. Bottom line is no they don't expect you to do anything you are not physically capable of doing. But if you say you can't access your engine room when cruising...they may pull the BS flag on you.

I did say similar tips back in post 5.

Capt Bill is also correct that requesting the boarding be done differently for safety is a good idea, won't always work...but get it on the radio at least so it may be recorded.

If a hatch is too heavy for you to lift easily, ask them for help.

I'll take the USCG over our local Sherriff dept any day! Got an apology from local Sherriff. One of their all about him pulled me over because he has a news crew and needed a story on the TV! They learned their water Sherriff didn't know the rules when I complained, but unfortunately the news got a shot of my daughter in a bikini...holiday weekend. Was so unprofessional and I followed up to his boss and got the apology. Bring on the USCG that are very professional and they can look wherever, I have no issues.

78puget-trawler said:

Well OK, other than having several posts warn me not to be an *******, I guess I didn't really get my question answered. Be polite and compliant. Sure, duh! But I guess no one here really knows the actual answer if indeed there is one to be had. Which is what level of cooperation is required as I asked such as physically making access to the party for inspection such as lifting up heavy tables, and deck sections over the eng room etc. No intention of trying to be a "sea lawyer". I will confess it does irk me and I know I am not alone in this, that our 4th Amendment protections under the Bill of Rights do not extend to being on a boat! I had thought I might learn something other than "be nice", LOL! Sort of.

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Your scenario simply is not going to happen. I've been boarded many times on deliveries and on my own boat (probably due to the Canadian Flag). They are not going to ask you to do anything but stay out of their way. Any hatches or heavy lifting they want to do themselves. This is a simple matter of self protection for them. I even had one vessel "arrested" on a delivery and still had a laugh with the heavily armed guys that boarded me. In every case They were at worst business like and polite, more usual is friendly and helpful.

I just spent some time looking this up on the CG site but no real answer there either, other than comply. Interestingly it did say that the max fine for refusing to be boarded was $500. It also said as expected that the courts have upheld their authority to board, which we already knew. And no I don't carry the Bill of Rights around in my pocket so don't be so easily irritated. It is in fact a warrantless search. If the cops came into your home without a warrant and opened all your drawers and closets, and went thru all your stuff what would you call that? Right, its called a warrantless search, illegal. So other than the fact that the CG has historically been able to get around it what would else would you call it? Its a warrantless search unless there is reasonable suspicion to believe that something illegal is happening inside the home or on a boat or wherever. Just that in the case of the CG it does not apply. While it may be true that unless they become suspicious while on board, or find enough minor violations to search further, they still had to board/enter a privately owned residence, if only a temporary one to find this out. That doesn't fly on the beach does it? And I can lift any hatch on the boat, just curious if when they board my boat, if there is a legal obligation for me to do so. Really didn't expect this thread to go this way at all.

Thank you boatpoker, that is more of the kind of reply I was looking for.

78puget-trawler said:

Well OK, other than having several posts warn me not to be an *******, I guess I didn't really get my question answered. Be polite and compliant. Sure, duh! But I guess no one here really knows the actual answer if indeed there is one to be had. Which is what level of cooperation is required as I asked such as physically making access to the party for inspection such as lifting up heavy tables, and deck sections over the eng room etc. No intention of trying to be a "sea lawyer". I will confess it does irk me and I know I am not alone in this, that our 4th Amendment protections under the Bill of Rights do not extend to being on a boat! I had thought I might learn something other than "be nice", LOL! Sort of.

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You will not be asked to do anything other than show your paperwork, and possibly the location of a required plackard.

If they are going to full on search and inspect your boat, you will not be allowed to participate. You will be kept "busy" talking while they conduct any search and or detailed inspection.

If they ask you a specific question like "how do we open this hatch" you need to tell them how. If you do not, and they really want to look there they will find a way with or without your cooperation.

Curious why you are asking 78? USCG is on our side, wonder what you are worried about?

ksanders, thank you for that reply. Again, what I was looking for.
Rossigal, mostly curious. I agree that like the police, they are mostly on our side. But unlike they police they do not have the same restraints, so I was curious just how much the boarded boat owner is expected to do to facilitate whatever it is the CG is going to do. I think I have my answers. Thanks.

I respect the CG and have had nothing but professional interactions with them. I have seen them do incredibly brave things!
With that been said no one should be able to board and search your boat. I don't understand why anyone would give up any of their constitutional rights just so you don't make someone who works for you mad.
Again I understand the courts have said they can have a look but some of those same court say they can deny you the right to defend your!

I hear you Island and 78. Happen to know a Coastie personally, just transferred from here to there, dang it. I'm also a concealed gal, so no issues with personal liberties at all. I just have nothing to hide and the way the world is changing...they can board me anytime and I hope they are boarding many. Not the same world we used to live in. I haven't seen any tell me I can't carry to defend myself (outside of I have to respect the state laws as if I'm on land) so until then, I'm ok. Am I missing something?

Not yet!

To add to the above, my uncle was in the CG in the late 50's and performed rescue service on the Washington coast and was commended for that service. My dad had a breakdown on his tug years ago while crossing Dixon Entrance with a tow and mostly green crew. He never had much use for the CG, but he called them and they ran out from Ketchikan and put a line on his tug until he could figure out the problem, ( he did), and get under way again. And just like the police that folks often rag on. Like they said in the Ghost Busters. Who ya gonna call?, when there is trouble? I have no animosity towards the coasties and their mostly wonderful service, but as above I think its wrong that they can board a private vessel minding its own business and doing no harm to anyone, without a warrant. The police can't, nor should anyone else be able to. But it wasn't my intent to start a flame out over what the CG can and cant do. I know they can, and that is unlikely to change.

Rossigal, as in many aspects of our lives, its not just about not having anything to hide. That is irrelevant. I have nothing to hide either but as I asked above, would you be OK if the local police came knocking on you home door, without a warrant and said hey open up, we want to inspect your house and everything in it?? I didn't think so.

Pertinent Laws

The USCG's primary law enforcement authority is derived from 14 USC 89a (below) provided courtesy of the website of law.cornell.edu. I am not familiar with any laws that would require you to open hatches, or count a fish hold, BUT 18 USC 2237 (also below), and other laws, clearly distinguish what crossing the line is.

I monitor USCG very closely when they are aboard our boats - in the interest of damage mitigation from their gear and general inexperience with access on recreational boats. I refrain from further commentary except to say we have been boarded by USCG this year and in 2013.

Separately, what I find interesting is the fact that some STATES have gotten away from boating safety inspections and now require a higher threshold to be met before initiating a stop for an inspection (reasonable suspicion of a crime). Here is a link to some interesting case law:

NASBLA

I try to keep the mindset that the next boat stopped by any law enforcement agency might be the one that is prevented from hurting people/my loved ones because they are intoxicated or feloniously incompetent.

We do the majority of our boating hours in Canada and our enforcement experience there has been very professional.

The references are next :

14 USC 89a

(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.
(b) The officers of the Coast Guard insofar as they are engaged, pursuant to the authority contained in this section, in enforcing any law of the United States shall:
(1) be deemed to be acting as agents of the particular executive department or independent establishment charged with the administration of the particular law; and
(2) be subject to all the rules and regulations promulgated by such department or independent establishment with respect to the enforcement of that law.
(c) The provisions of this section are in addition to any powers conferred by law upon such officers, and not in limitation of any powers conferred by law upon such officers, or any other officers of the United States.
(Aug. 4, 1949, ch. 393, 63 Stat. 502; Aug. 3, 1950, ch. 536, § 1, 64 Stat. 406.)

18 USC 2237

(a)
(1) It shall be unlawful for the master, operator, or person in charge of a vessel of the United States, or a vessel subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, to knowingly fail to obey an order by an authorized Federal law enforcement officer to heave to that vessel.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person on board a vessel of the United States, or a vessel subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, to—
(A) forcibly resist, oppose, prevent, impede, intimidate, or interfere with a boarding or other law enforcement action authorized by any Federal law or to resist a lawful arrest; or
(B) provide materially false information to a Federal law enforcement officer during a boarding of a vessel regarding the vessel’s destination, origin, ownership, registration, nationality, cargo, or crew.
(b)
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, whoever knowingly violates subsection (a) shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both.
(2)
(A) If the offense is one under paragraph (1) or (2)(A) of subsection (a) and has an aggravating factor set forth in subparagraph (B) of this paragraph, the offender shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or life, or both.
(B) The aggravating factor referred to in subparagraph (A) is that the offense—
(i) results in death; or
(ii) involves—
(I) an attempt to kill;
(II) kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap; or
(III) an offense under section 2241.
(3) If the offense is one under paragraph (1) or (2)(A) of subsection (a) and results in serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365), the offender shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both.
(4) If the offense is one under paragraph (1) or (2)(A) of subsection (a), involves knowing transportation under inhumane conditions, and is committed in the course of a violation of section 274 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, or chapter 77 or section 113 (other than under subsection (a)(4) or (a)(5) of such section) or 117 of this title, the offender shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both.
(c) This section does not limit the authority of a customs officer under section 581 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (19 U.S.C. 1581), or any other provision of law enforced or administered by the Secretary of the Treasury or the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the authority of any Federal law enforcement officer under any law of the United States, to order a vessel to stop or heave to.
(d) A foreign nation may consent or waive objection to the enforcement of United States law by the United States under this section by radio, telephone, or similar oral or electronic means. Consent or waiver may be proven by certification of the Secretary of State or the designee of the Secretary of State.
(e) In this section—
(1) the term “Federal law enforcement officer” has the meaning given the term in section 115(c);
(2) the term “heave to” means to cause a vessel to slow, come to a stop, or adjust its course or speed to account for the weather conditions and sea state to facilitate a law enforcement boarding;
(3) the term “vessel subject to the jurisdiction of the United States” has the meaning given the term in section 70502 of title 46;
(4) the term “vessel of the United States” has the meaning given the term in section 70502 of title 46; and
(5) the term “transportation under inhumane conditions” means—
(A) transportation—
(i) of one or more persons in an engine compartment, storage compartment, or other confined space;
(ii) at an excessive speed; or
(iii) of a number of persons in excess of the rated capacity of the vessel; or
(B) intentional grounding of a vessel in which persons are being transported.
(Added Pub. L. 109–177, title III, § 303(a), Mar. 9, 2006, 120 Stat. 233; amended Pub. L. 111–281, title IX, § 917, Oct. 15, 2010, 124 Stat. 3021.)

I can remember as a young kid watching them dive in the water at the mouth of the Klamath river to save people that were to stupid to follow orders given the same people that had to risk their lives to save them! Literally pulled off their life jacket and jumped in to rescue them! Left a great impression on me.
I have nothing to hide they are welcome on my boat anytime, but I just which they had to do it within the rules of how a normal person would interpret the constitution!
They could at least take us for a ride in one of their boats!