Questions

Questions from a sailor thinking Trawler:
On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.

AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.

Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.

These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks

On Gumbo one can operate from upper or lower helm without engaging or disengaging the other, just push or pull either throttle or shift knob.

Fridge, I'm not sure on this one so won't say.

We have propane cooktop and, seldom used, oven, I believe quite a few people are afraid of or dislike using gas so have electric or their boat came with electric stove. We also have a microwave it can operate off of the inverter same as the coffee maker so we can use them without cranking up the genset.

120/12 v fridges work on either with an inverter. I think you would be better with 12 v only and a good battery charger. I would bet that it is 90% propane for stoves otherwise you also need generator. I had a full size RV propane refrigerator in my last trawler. 20# tank would last 10 to 15 days depending on the outside temperature.


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Ulysses only has one steering station so I will not address that aspect of your questions.

She has a propane stove and oven, microwave, toaster, and coffee maker which run off of inverter, generator, and/or shore power.

Refrigeration runs off of inverter for a short period or generator. It usually requires about one hour of run time twice a day (cold plate type).

I do maintain redundant coffee making abilities with either stove or coffee maker.

Regarding stove question...I think most people stick with what's on the boat they are interested in. My boat has electric. I'm not going to retrofit propane. If it were propane, I'd leave it. If I had a choice...I'm not sure I'd care but a propane system is slightly more complex and technically more dangerous...although risks can be mitigated.
Having an inverter answers some of your questions. I just installed one. If I had the inverter before I had to replace that $1400 hunk of crap Norcold, I would have bought I nice household unit...

My 1977 boat is old school. All helm controls are connected mechanically. The only thing digital on my boat controls are my fingers. I've been on a member's Helmsman 38PH that had digital power levers. He had to press a button to transfer authority to the other helm... and accept it at the other helm, I think. Maybe Windmist will see this and confirm that.

AC/DC Fridge: I have one, a Norcold, and it has its own inverter/converter. Not sure if its native power is AC or DC though.

I've got propane for the stove/oven but I hardly use it. It works well when I do, though. I have a POCCC (Piece of Cheap Chinese Crap) Xantrex 1000W Inverter that powers my small coffee maker, microwave and 2nd fridge (AC Only). If I want Keurig coffee, I need to fire up the generator b/c that little appliance draws 1500W! It revs up my Honda gen!

I bet you're looking forward to being able to open a fridge door and look at what's there, aren't you? No more digging into a deep hole in your little counter hole to get food. I remember when one nice sailing couple joined me for a drink in in my cockpit. I pulled out 2 chairs and the wife exclaimed, "Oh, look honey...Chairs! I haven't seen chairs in a while!" You should have seen the relaxed look on her face when she sat down on a comfortable chair. Welcome to the comfortable world of trawlering!!

Oh....and please....no sailboat pics. We have some 12-step recovering sailors as members.

<<AC/DC Fridge: I have one, a Norcold, and it has its own inverter/converter. Not sure if its native power is AC or DC though.>>

I'm pretty sure the way it works, if AC power is available, that is what they will use. Ironically I've heard they are more efficient on DC...probably because of that inverter thing. So I guess Native is DC.

Great questions Adagio, some of my own as I started looking.

Adagio43 said:

On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.

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As near as I can tell, mechanical controls with two stations will be split controls, ie one for throttle and one for power. With newer systems there are electronic controls which can use a single lever for both even with multiple helm stations. Not sure how control is passed however.

FWIW, I used separate controls for throttle and shift for the first time yesterday. It was a bit odd at first.

Adagio43 said:

AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.

Click to expand...

Great question. Seeing as how I likely will be an owner with one of the those, I should probably add that to my ever increasing list of "stuff I don't know".

Adagio43 said:

Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.

Click to expand...

There was a long discussion that you should read on Gas or Electric galley. What I took out of it is that those that need air conditioning, are more likely to use an electric galley as they are running the GenSet all the time anyway. Many of the new boat manufacturers spec out electric galleys for the East Coast and Propane for the West Coast. Bottom line is that either is fine and you can get used to either one. Coming from sailboats, we tend to be loathe to run a Genset. I imagine we will get over that pretty quickly. On that thread above, there was much discussion on how to get that morning cup of coffee without the genset. For me, I am hoping that a 3000w inverter will be enough to fire up my Keurig.

Adagio43 said:

These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks

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You will find that the TF folks are very gentle with us sailors at first. Much like the drunken bar bully is nice and gentle to small children and puppies.

You will find that the TF folks are very gentle with us sailors at first. Much like the drunken bar bully is nice and gentle to small children and puppies.

Lima Oscar Lima!

1 I can only answer for hydraulic systems. No need to do anything but relocate your body to the other station. everything works just the same at both places.

2 You need to know what AC/DC fridge you have. Usually, they are more efficient on AC, so if being at anchor for days at a time is important, don't buy AC/DC. Get DC only, so no losses when having to convert to AC using the (Norcold) built-in inverter. Search for this topic, as it has been discussed many times before.

3 Fear. Don't be afraid. Get propane. Be silent.

No dumb questions. Just dumb if you didn't ask when you should.

Some (maybe all) the electronic controls require disengaging one (shift & throttles) and then you engage the other.

I'm an ex-sailor - you'll love having a trawler!

On controls - my steering and engine controls are hydraulic. No switchover is required. The engine controls move in sync at both helm stations. The wheel at the helm not it use does not move. Neither wheel moves when the autopilot is steering.

I have a propane stove. When I refit my galley I plan to go with a full sized propane stovetop and an electric convection oven. I like cooking with gas and was used to it on my sailboat.

I have a good sized battery bank and an inverter so I can run my espresso machine and 120v fridges (2) and freezer without running either of the generators. At anchor I can go 24 hours without discharging my batteries more than 50%.

I have to do some research on whether to go AC, DC or AC/DC for the fridges/freezer when I refit the galley. It's not clear to me which is the most efficient given I'm always running an inverter when there's no AC (shore power or genset).

Richard

1. We have hydraulic steering and mechanical shifters and throttles. No changeover required, all controls can be operated from either station.
2. We have DC fridge, said to be nominally more efficient than AC. Not sure about the efficiency, but we don't run the gen while at anchor or on a mooring buoy.
3. We have a propane stove/oven and use both regularly. Propane cooking and diesel heating was a basic requirement for us since we boat in the PNW and we like quiet and heat.

Adagio43 said:

Questions from a sailor thinking Trawler:
On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.

AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.

Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.

These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks

Click to expand...

No engagement/disengagement necessary on the dual-helm system we had.

Our AC/DC fridges always run on a DC compressor. When fed AC as power source, the fridges "power supply" converts AC to DC, much like a laptop's power supply.

Ours came with electric, so that's what we use and have come to prefer, for this boat. (Induction would likely be even better.) Coffee and microwave will run on an inverter easily enough, when the genset isn't running.

-Chris

ktdtx said:

Some (maybe all) the electronic controls require disengaging one (shift & throttles) and then you engage the other.

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Our Volvo KAD44P, 18 years old but electronically controlled, has three helm stations. Throttle and shift are fly-by-wire. To take engine/gear control at a different station, I push a button at that new station. No disengagement required at the station which had been in control.

Steering (hydraulic) works everywhere all the time - turn any wheel and it steers.

Adagio43 said:

Questions from a sailor thinking Trawler:
On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.

AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.

Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.

These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks

Click to expand...

I can only answer based on my own boat.

I don't have to engage or disengage anything when moving from the lower helm to the upper helm. The steering is hydraulic and the throttle and gearshift are interconnected cables.

My refrigerator runs on AC if available, DC if not. It's what is commonly called an "AC/DC refrigerator and is probably the most common kind on a relatively small boat.

I don't know why anyone would put an electric stove on a boat. Mine is propane. I do have a large battery bank and inverter so I can also use a microwave oven and a coffee pot (but not at the same time).

WesK said:

I don't know why anyone would put an electric stove on a boat.

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Electric cooktop, inexpensive units, easy installation, takes minimal space, no special venting required, cooks OK, works well with boats that already have shorepower and gensets, electricity is already on the boat (so no finding/humping propane or alcohol or whatever needed), etc.

Not a recommendation, just an observation.

-Chris

WesK said:

I don't know why anyone would put an electric stove on a boat. Mine is propane. I do have a large battery bank and inverter so I can also use a microwave oven and a coffee pot (but not at the same time).

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Since I'm one of those anyone's you don't see, I'll answer. I choose not to have propane on a boat. I'm not saying it's a huge risk or that many don't have it safely. We use electric for many things on the boat, including air conditioning, and between batteries, inverters, generators and shore power, have no problems getting by without it. As to the coffee question, we'd accommodate that with a coffee pot. But if we need to start the generator and it's not already running, then we just start it. That's what it's there for.

Britannia said:

I'm an ex-sailor - you'll love having a trawler!

On controls - my steering and engine controls are hydraulic. No switchover is required. The engine controls move in sync at both helm stations. The wheel at the helm not it use does not move. Neither wheel moves when the autopilot is steering.

Click to expand...

How does that work, I've actually always been curious about this. What if you leave the wheel at helm 1 all the way to the right and then start steering on helm 2 and turns the wheel all the way left. Does it mean that as soon as you touch the helm 1 wheel, the rudder will go hard over right?

With our helms (Teleflex Seastar hydraulic steering), the visible position of any of the wheels has nothing to do with the position of the sterndrive (our rudder). Only the motion of a wheel is important. When we turn any wheel, the hydraulics are pumped, and the sterndrive turns whichever way the wheel is turned. The other two wheels do not move. Valving in the helms makes this work.

RCook said:

With our helms (Teleflex Seastar hydraulic steering), the visible position of any of the wheels has nothing to do with the position of the sterndrive (our rudder). Only the motion of a wheel is important. When we turn any wheel, the hydraulics are pumped, and the sterndrive turns whichever way the wheel is turned. Valving in the helms makes this work.

Click to expand...

Ahh, so is there no limit to how far the wheel can turn? It'll just go over and over like a jog dial? Or otherwise is there a way to turn the wheel without changing the position of the sterndrive for re-centering purposes?

Our wheels turn about 5 revolutions from the sterndrive's full port to full starboard. Sterndrive movement stops limit how far you can turn a wheel at any one time.

There is no such thing as centering the wheel itself, only centering the sterndrive. We can't look at any wheel and know where the drive is pointed. If we're stationary, and wish to know where the drive is pointed, we lean over the transom and look.

RCook said:

Our wheels turn about 5 revolutions from the sterndrive's full port to full starboard. Sterndrive movement stops limit how far you can turn a wheeel at any one time.

There is no such thing as centering the wheel itself, only centering the sterndrive. We can't look at any wheel and know where the drive is pointed. If we're stationary, and wish to know where the drive is pointed, we lean over the transom and look.

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Thanks!

vp1 said:

How does that work, I've actually always been curious about this. What if you leave the wheel at helm 1 all the way to the right and then start steering on helm 2 and turns the wheel all the way left. Does it mean that as soon as you touch the helm 1 wheel, the rudder will go hard over right?

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As the other Richard said, the wheel is a pump. It's actual position doesn't mean anything. It'll pump hydraulic fluid in either direction until the rudder hits an end stop.

Richard

Britannia said:

As the other Richard said, the wheel is a pump. It's actual position doesn't mean anything. It'll pump hydraulic fluid in either direction until the rudder hits an end stop.

Richard

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Thank you also! I guess it's painfully obvious how much time I've spent operating a boat

BandB said:

Since I'm one of those anyone's you don't see, I'll answer. I choose not to have propane on a boat. I'm not saying it's a huge risk or that many don't have it safely. We use electric for many things on the boat, including air conditioning, and between batteries, inverters, generators and shore power, have no problems getting by without it. As to the coffee question, we'd accommodate that with a coffee pot. But if we need to start the generator and it's not already running, then we just start it. That's what it's there for.

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Some boats don't have gensets. Some of the gensets are broken.

I much prefer to cook with gas. So does my wife. So much so that when we moved to a new (to us) home, we took out a working electric range and installed a gas range. We had to have the gas line extended to it.

WesK said:

Some boats don't have gensets. Some of the gensets are broken.

I much prefer to cook with gas. So does my wife. So much so that when we moved to a new (to us) home, we took out a working electric range and installed a gas range. We had to have the gas line extended to it.

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You said you didn't understand how anyone would choose electric. I simply stated while we did, not why you or anyone else should. We have gensets. Our gensets are not broken. We also get excellent results even with electric grills.

As to cooktops, we use induction. I know how many women want gas because they feel it reaches higher temperatures but in cooking, reaching a maximum temperature is rarely very important unless you're going for the temperatures of commercial ovens, which reach over 1000 degrees. Conventional ovens set at 450 degrees are going to be 450 degrees regardless of electric or gas. Gas may get there quicker.

To me there's a huge difference between having gas in my home and having propane on the boat. We have a commercial kitchen at home and it's gas. But we also have had very careful piping, know where all the disconnects are, and how to turn the gas supply off before it reaches the house. That's not like a propane tank, where storage for extras on a boat becomes an issue. Plus as often as we grill on a boat, we'd be constantly needing new tanks.

So, I have no fault with those who prefer propane. I just don't.

BandB said:

............ I know how many women want gas because they feel it reaches higher temperatures .............

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Yea, that's not a bit sexist!

Having just left a week at my in-laws house with an electric stove I am reminded that electric does not reach whatever temperature you want as fast as gas, but more importantly, it does not cool down as fast as gas. Turn the gas burner off and it's off. Turn an electric burner off and it's still as hot as it was a minute ago. It takes several minutes to cool down. And with gas, you can see how high the flame is. Electric. you have to guess what "medium" means.

Back to the boat, propane makes no noise. Electric with a genset running does. It may not bother you, but in a quiet anchorage, it's pretty inconsiderate to run a genset before everyone else is awake.

WesK said:

Yea, that's not a bit sexist!

Having just left a week at my in-laws house with an electric stove I am reminded that electric does not reach whatever temperature you want as fast as gas, but more importantly, it does not cool down as fast as gas. Turn the gas burner off and it's off. Turn an electric burner off and it's still as hot as it was a minute ago. It takes several minutes to cool down. And with gas, you can see how high the flame is. Electric. you have to guess what "medium" means.

Back to the boat, propane makes no noise. Electric with a genset running does. It may not bother you, but in a quiet anchorage, it's pretty inconsiderate to run a genset before everyone else is awake.

Click to expand...

I should have said cooks, not women. Just you were referring to your wife and since I believed her to be a woman, I addressed it in that way. However, women does come across sexist. I apologize.

Well, our genset does not make the noise you describe to wake and disturb others. It has a sound shield and is in a sound proofed engine room. Very low decibel level, and the areas we cruise, gensets are used in the anchorages and not thought of as rude. We also don't anchor much. As I stated, our situation is different. You questioned why anyone would use electric. I told you our reasons.

Now as to induction cooktops. Instant heat. Can bring water to a boil quicker than gas. Heat only the pan so no waste. Instant cool down. Safer than gas or regular electric. Also ours on the boat use silicone mats and meet the ABYC requirements for pot retention. Much easier to use while underway as pots won't slide. The negatives are initial cost and the need for pots and pans that are compatible. So for those on the fence of gas vs. electric, I'd suggest considering induction as well. It overcomes all the issues you described except the need for electricity.

I had a '78 Carver that used mechanical push-pull dual station steering setup. There was a selection lever at the lower station to choose. Mechanical throttles and gear control cables with both stations moving together.
With newer controls you can have it any way you want.