Defever 44 vs. Kadey Krogen 39

My wife and I are finally going to buy a trawler as a liveaboard and do the loop and Bahamas. I'm looking at a 1989 Defever 44' Offshore Cruiser with twin Lehmans and two heads/staterooms but no pilot house vs. a 2001 Kadey Krogen 39' Trawler with a single John Deere 135 with a pilot house and one head/stateroom. The Defever is an aft cabin and the Kadey's is forward. The Kadey appears to have twice the range but of course only has one engine and weighs less to begin with. Both boats are stabilized and have approximately the same 5000 hours +/- on the engines. We love the idea of a pilot house as we both still work part time and this looks like a great spot to do our internet and phone work. Of course the Kadey is more money but can be financed while I don't think any lender wants a 1989 boat as collateral. Would love to hear any comments on this subject. We are looking at these boats next week. Thanks.

Take the Defever. The difference in living/hangout space is pretty big. Take a tape measure and just measure/calcutate the sq' of your living area. I like both boats.

I like the hull design of the KK much better but I've heard nothing but wonderful about the DeFever build quality.

Since hull design is king w me I'd choose the Krogen.
But if I knew all about it I may choose the DF.

They're both great boats. I suggest you try before you buy -- spend some time on each of them by chartering or bumming rides. We spent time aboard several KK42s and a few Defever 44s (KK39s will be harder to find). We were smitten with the Krogen (and still have a soft spot for them) but several days chartering one proved that it wasn't the boat for us. The Defever feels huge by comparison. The vast outdoor space and near-standup engine room more than compensated for the absence of a pilot house -- for us. You may feel exactly the opposite, but you might not know what really lights you up until you spend some real time with each.

KK 39 is a lot less space than the 44 and as much as I love the KK, the description of usage you give is more the DeFever forte, IMO. I've spent some time on a 39 KK and for anyone over six ft. and stiff, you'd better not drop the soap in the shower. Storage and liveability are both better on the 44 DF. Maintenance spaces are a tie but both very good. If later you do more blue water, the 39's will be around, but it would be hard to give up the space by then.

Thank you

Guys: Thanks for all the advice, it is very helpful. We are leaning Defever and are scheduled to see both boats next Monday. I'll let you know what I think. Jim

I always heard that DeFevers were built by many yards of varying quality...so knowing the origin may be important in determining the quality. Even though a yard may have done a run of a particular model, I am pretty sure some boats were built by other yards under Defever supervision.

from a Defever site....

DeFever History - DeFever Cruisers: A Club for Yachting Enthusiasts with a Passion for DeFever Vessels and the Cruising Life!

In the 1970s, fiberglass became the preferred hull material for boat building. In many of Art's designs, single diesel power gave way to twin engines. He made appropriate modifications, but the characteristic swept sheer, high prow, and displacement hull form were retained. The popular designs of the past quarter century share a distinctive profile, which is a source of pride for owners. The DeFever Passagemaker 34, 40 and 43, the 44 Offshore Cruiser, 49 Raised Pilothouse, 52 Offshore Cruiser, and 60 Offshore Cruiser reflect this DeFever profile that yields excellent sea-keeping capability, interior room and comfort. The Passagemaker 34 and 40 were manufactured at Jensen Marine in California, while the others were built by CTF in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, and more recently, by POCTA in mainland China.
During the mid-80s, the customer’s desire for increased speed led Art to design the 51 POC (Performance Offshore Cruiser). This was followed by the 47 POC, 53 POC and 57 Cockpit POC. All of these boats have simi-displacement hulls for increased speed using larger engines. These were built in the Sen Koh yard, Kaohsiung, Taiwan.
Numerous other DeFever designs continue to grace the waterways of the world. One very popular model among DeFever Cruisers members is the DeFever 41. These were built in the 1980s, first by Miracle Marine Corporation (MMC), and later by Bluewater Yachts, both of Taiwan.

His designs are at this link.

DeFever Designs: DeFever Cruisers - A Club for Yachting Enthusiasts with a Passion for DeFever Vessels and the Cruising Life!

39 and 44 are completely different sized boats. 5 ft on a boat is a huge amount of space. I think you would find big differences between a 40 ft defever and a 45 ft defever or a 39 ft KK and a 48 ft KK. Is there a reason you are limiting yourself to these 2 particular boats? What about a KK42 or 48? Or a smaller defever, or other brands ?

I had a DF43 which is pretty much the same as a 44.
Very liveable boat for 2.Walk in engine room will spoil you compared to other boats in this range,very hard to have another boat without one.
The aft deck is one of the great features as well,so much room to live.
I guess the production numbers tell you this is a great boat.I think its around 400 boats or so.
Have a look at the 49RPH as well,engine room not as good,however still a very good boat.
Good luck hunting.

Yesterday I toured a Hatteras 48 LRC. I had been reading about these for years but never boarded one. Gorgeous yacht I have to say, feels like a tank and very comfortable. Engine room is an issue and frankly a little overwhelming as are so many other systems aboard her. FYI, I toured the 39 KK - way too small for our needs but a lovely little yacht. Monday we see the Defever 44 and then the Hatt for a second time. Would love to hear any comments on the Hatt. Thanks.

Forgot to mention that I have toured a 49 RPH - awesome boat. It went off market and not for sale, at least the one we found.

Take a look at the 49 cpmy. It's a 44 with added cockpit. The cockpit makes boarding much easier, and it has a cavernous lazarette. We keep a big Yeti and a grill in the cockpit, and the lazarette holds fenders, spare lines, shorepower cord, spare anchor, etc, etc, etc.

Drake said:

Take a look at the 49 cpmy. It's a 44 with added cockpit. The cockpit makes boarding much easier, and it has a cavernous lazarette. We keep a big Yeti and a grill in the cockpit, and the lazarette holds fenders, spare lines, shorepower cord, spare anchor, etc, etc, etc.

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I would agree with this sentiment. I am 50 years old and always have my feelers up for "the retirement boat". Right now, the DF49CPMY is leading the pack simply based on value and space and nice engine options as well as nice engine room. I don't know when they started making the 49CPMY but they have been making the 44ACMY since at least 1983. I say that because there was a 1983 44ACMY for sale at our last boat show. Lehman 120s. They were usually Lehmans until the late 90s....then they were Perkins Sabres. Now I think they are John Deeres. I have seen them with Cummins 6BTs but that is rare.

Similar .... My Willard and a GB32.

The GB is huge by comparison. I would be more or less happy w either boat except in following seas and other big water situations. There's nothing like a double ender, a canoe stern or fantail stern in following seas. And the wineglass stern of the KK is as good. Hull design is the most important thing about a boat to me. What you frequently trade for space (other than money) is usually sea keeping abilities. The hull form of a DeFever is more suited to coastal and inshore running including less fuel efficiency. Indeed the DeFever has twice the power. The KK is well represented in "Voyaging under Power" (the passagemaker book) and the DeFevers are not mentioned.

The OP may care less about the sea keeping abilities of the two boats. The DeFever is undoubtably a very good sea boat and the very fact that the OP is considering the DeFever says that it's probably more suited to his needs. And since the boats are so very different I'd think he should concentrate on the DeFever. And from what I hear they may be a better build too.

FWIW...I do have a close friend that cruised his 49CPMY...he crossed the gulf in it a few times....and I mean straight across. He thought he was done cruising so he sold it. One of his biggest regrets. He bought a farm and thought he was gonna spend the rest of his life farming and riding a tractor. He got the boat bug again and bought a brand new Carver....almost impulsively. Hated it. It sits for sale to this day with 80 hours on the engines(2007 model). He bought another DF52 pilothouse....brand new. It is a beautiful boat but he still speaks mournfully of selling that 49...he really loved that boat.

jfelds said:

Yesterday I toured a Hatteras 48 LRC. I had been reading about these for years but never boarded one. Gorgeous yacht I have to say, feels like a tank and very comfortable. Engine room is an issue and frankly a little overwhelming as are so many other systems aboard her. FYI, I toured the 39 KK - way too small for our needs but a lovely little yacht. Monday we see the Defever 44 and then the Hatt for a second time. Would love to hear any comments on the Hatt. Thanks.

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I would seriously consider the 48 LRC Hatteras. Just sold ours after 12 years, only to upgrade. A true blue water boat with great systems. One of the early write ups stated "built like a tank, wired like a space ship". That was no lie. You can pick up a great one that's been up-dated for around 250,000. You will never loose money when you resell.
Good luck.


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Capt. Don

jfelds said:

Yesterday I toured a Hatteras 48 LRC. I had been reading about these for years but never boarded one. Gorgeous yacht I have to say, feels like a tank and very comfortable. Engine room is an issue and frankly a little overwhelming as are so many other systems aboard her. FYI, I toured the 39 KK - way too small for our needs but a lovely little yacht. Monday we see the Defever 44 and then the Hatt for a second time. Would love to hear any comments on the Hatt. Thanks.

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I think Hatteras is a "you can't go wrong" brand if there is such a thing. Obviously subject to survey, but they're just well built boats, plenty of room. Won't be the most economical boat you find, fuel wise, but more than enough good to offset that.

I would concur with the suggestion of Hatt LRC's. The 42 is also roomy and a good value but the 48 is more of the same good, that is if you don't mind a couple of singing Detroits. Great cruising vessels that have rightly earned a lot of respect, and nice looking too.

Another factor to throw in for comparison. The DeFever with twin engines and an aft stateroom will be the better boat if you are marina hopping. You can turn on the AC in the marina and the lack of flow through air in the aft stateroom will not matter. The twin engines will allow you to dock easier.

The Krogen has a forward stateroom with a hatch right over the berth, wonderful for sleeping while anchored out. The hull is the preferred of the two for seaworthiness and you said you were planning on the Bahamas.

Thus if you are planning on marina hopping, the DeFever has advantages, while if you plan on anchoring out a lot the Krogen has advantages.

Our DF has all the bilges and under drawer spaces gel coated. This permits voluminous space to become quite usable for all sorts of canned goods, drinks, boxed goods and other supplies for live aboards and long distance cruisers.

DFs are intentionally designed for offshore work and heavy weather. Window thickness, water shedding, full keels, high bows and large rudders aid in this regard. Assuming you keep a weather eye, doubtful you'd be in harms way with a DF. Read a great log some years ago about an English couple who bought a DF (44 as I recall) on the US west coast and took it to England via Panama Canal. Or the oft traveled Egret who encountered a DF from NA happily cruising off the Southern tip of Chile.

But chest thumping and personal prejudices aside, current condition, logged prior maintenance and upgrades will tell the story. Just met with a TF member who has a KK 58. That vessel trumps those are under discussion on this thread. But budget enters into it as well I guess, darn it.

Thanks to all who chimed in. I saw IntervaleII online when it was for sale - looked like a gem, really - but I wasn't ready to pull the trigger. I also agree with Bay Pellican about the natural ventilation while sleeping, but I have to say even my wife is leaning towards the Hatt. I'll update after we see the Defever and Hatt tomorrow.

LOVE my 48' LRC. Really well built and solid. Lots of room and very comfortable. I heard and was concerned about those loud, "singing" Detroits mentioned below but turned out to be way quieter than I expected and very happy with noise level. A lot quieter than either of my Grand Banks. It might make a big difference that I have carpet but the ER seems really well insulated to me.

healhustler said:

I would concur with the suggestion of Hatt LRC's. The 42 is also roomy and a good value but the 48 is more of the same good, that is if you don't mind a couple of singing Detroits. Great cruising vessels that have rightly earned a lot of respect, and nice looking too.

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Captain Paul said:

LOVE my 48' LRC. Really well built and solid. Lots of room and very comfortable. I heard and was concerned about those loud, "singing" Detroits mentioned below but turned out to be way quieter than I expected and very happy with noise level. A lot quieter than either of my Grand Banks. It might make a big difference that I have carpet but the ER seems really well insulated to me.

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It's the current Hatteras MY's with the CATS that are loud.

Gotcha. Seems I read a lot that my little 453's were loud and leaky too but mine most certainly are not.