Would one of you please buy this vessel?

OK, it's not a trawler, but this is a real, pedigreed yacht that deserves an owner who can appreciate something so nice. I'd buy it myself if it were on the left coast, but it's in Connecticut so that isn't happening.

1979 53' Lyman Morse, single 3208 with bow AND stern thrusters, and gorgeous wood interior. Asking $99K and, honestly, they seem anxious.

The photos are carefully chosen to hide the oddity - there's a well deck separating the main cabins from the aft cabin. But I think that any owner would truly love the privacy. Somebody please buy this and put me out of my misery.

I won't buy it, because I already have a boat that is adequate for my purposes. But, that said, very nice looking vessel! And the price seems right, too. So fingers crossed that someone who can appreciate it buys it.

Of course, if they wanted to take a trade in . . .

When a broker says "needs TLC" it usually means it's freakin' disaster.

Nice looking boat but not one single picture of the important stuff, that always makes me a little wary.

boatpoker said:

When a broker says "needs TLC" it usually means it's freakin' disaster.

Nice looking boat but not one single picture of the important stuff, that always makes me a little wary.

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OK, sure, it's not PERFECT. Gee. Neither's my boat. Is yours?

And I'm not sure what you mean about "the important stuff" - there's a picture of the anchor. And of both helms. And both wheels are covered in leather! Did I mention that?

Take a look ?

I'm 40 miles away if anyone is willing to pay expenses for my up close opinion for what it's worth.

Below market value. Obviously not or it would be sold.

Just sayin...

Gordon

Gordon J said:

Below market value. Obviously not or it would be sold.

Just sayin...

Gordon

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How true. It's to this point above the market for it. Oddities and unique items don't market well.

boatpoker said:

When a broker says "needs TLC" it usually means it's freakin' disaster.

Nice looking boat but not one single picture of the important stuff, that always makes me a little wary.

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I kinda like the exam table on the bridge.

I'm always a bit wary, when the biggest selling point highlighted is a wood burning stove on a boat.

AusCan said:

I'm always a bit wary, when the biggest selling point highlighted is a wood burning stove on a boat.

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Exactly - bow and stern thrusters, both stations - and the broker highlights in all caps that it has a wood burning stove. I love incompetent listing brokers! These guys spend more time telling you that they're award winning sellers of Chris Craft, Cruisers, and Tiaras than they do saying anything meaningful about the boat.

To be fair though, that is a particularly nice wood burning fireplace installation.

Damn you guys are harsh...looks like a pretty good boat for a great price..more than likely the owner is really proud of his fireplace install (I had one on volunteer and in winter everyone thought is was the so cool) that he pushsd the inept broker to highlight it. The boat has some great stuff on it ..and a good pedigree..on this coast I would not hesitate to look at it.
People do price boats at good prices every once in a while if the need it to go..who knows.
Hollywood

hollywood8118 said:

Damn you guys are harsh...looks like a pretty good boat for a great price..

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That's what I thought. And I'd rather invest in TLC on a first-class vessel than one that wasn't as deserving. Everything in the photos indicates an owner who took pride in his vessel and didn't cobble it up with junk equipment or poor installation. So I would bet that the engine room is seaman-like as well. I'm guessing that the TLC is the canvas is starting to go and now probably the brightwork needs attention.

And I think I know how that aft cabin came to be. I'll bet this boat started life like most Lyman Morse flybridge cruisers with an enormous aft cockpit a la picnic boats. And the owner needed another stateroom and commissioned - at great expense - this modification that left the aft bulkhead of the saloon intact. It wasn't perfect - note the limited access to the ladder to the flybridge - but it was well executed - note the fold down desk on the forward bulkhead of the aft cabin.

Aft cabin "separated" designs were not uncommon in power and sailboats in and before that era. It also provided an easy way to service and lift out engines in some cases. My first offshore sailing was done in a cutter rigged vessel with separate aft cabin. The owner liked it for single handing or crew checking with quick access to the wheel if the "auto steer" wind system overly altered course.

Like Hollywood and Refugio, lots to like here. Parts still plentiful for the 3208. I missed if it is wood or FRP above and below gunnels. And for Eric, two fly bridges!

sunchaser said:

Like Hollywood and Refugio, lots to like here. Parts still plentiful for the 3208. I missed if it is wood or FRP above and below gunnels. And for Eric, two fly bridges!

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.........

That's interesting for sure, but strange.

Wish there was a profile pic. Can't get my head around the addition for some reason.

Why don't brokers post photos of the back of the electrical panel, battery banks, motor mounts, engine room bilge, steering gear, running gear, waste tank, fuel tanks .........

Better exterior pictures here:

1979 Lyman Morse 52' Down East Cruiser Title

We are shopping. I for sure would go look at her if I was closer. Might go anyway. I like her oddness.

If it was $99000 here in Ozzland I would be all over it like a fat girl with a birthday cake .

Rain Dog said:

Better exterior pictures here:

1979 Lyman Morse 52' Down East Cruiser Title

We are shopping. I for sure would go look at her if I was closer. Might go anyway. I like her oddness.

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Wow. That looks really odd now. Not ugly, just odd. That boat had an awesome cockpit before the conversion. I would have liked that better. Handling lines at the stern looks like a pain now.

I don't think this was a "add on". I believe this boat left LM as configured. Several of the DE builders built these as customer requests. I have seen a Jarvis Newman version. The LM may have been owned by a Marina operator in the 80's that also owned the old Chart Kit. Not sure if this is the boat or not. I think these aft cabin ideas are a spin off of "passagemaker", Bebbes boat, adapted to a DE hull.

A lot of boat for the $.
The space between cabins reminds me of Royal Barges used by royalty.
The wood burner would be an oddity here, but I`ve seen it in the UK. Strange at first seeing smoke coming from a chimney on a boat, often alongside and dried out, in a UK port.

Rain Dog said:

Better exterior pictures here:

1979 Lyman Morse 52' Down East Cruiser Title

We are shopping. I for sure would go look at her if I was closer. Might go anyway. I like her oddness.

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Thanks for that link! That is one of the prettiest hulls I've ever seen.

But the drawing in that listing is clearly for a different boat - it has a galley up and an extra stateroom forward. And the well deck is longer. And it has something in that aft cabin with a pull out berth of the port side. Curious.

I like the roll-up insect screens. But I'm not sure about the sit-stand lower helm station. The two networked Garmin MFDs look to be a decent size, and those thruster controls are not very old. And there's the sat-TV dome (though the other thread here serves as a caution for their obsolescence).

Greetings,
Mr. bp. "Why don't brokers post photos of..." Indeed. Mechanical photos show exactly how much TLC she actually needs IMO.

TLC of course can mean years. I have a friend who had to have what he described as a "heavy duty" sailboat. He ended up buying a 43-foot Slocum, which has the same dimensions as my 2006 Beneteau 423. Of course his boat weighs 40 percent more. He felt that such a boat ideal. Meanwhile, seven or eight years later, he is still getting it just right for an Atlantic crossing. Today, he is thinking about re-powering as a last task before leaving.

He has worked on the boat nearly everyday. He does first-class work and the boat is a good one, but he was working on the boat, not sailing it. Meanwhile, in 2006 I bought my boat new, have sailed to Trinidad and back, down the ICW, the Bahamas and all over the Chesapeake. Of course I have lost have the boat's value in the past 10 years, but I got out of her what I planned- trouble free boating and lots of fun. For my friend, he seemed to add two items to his to-do list for every item that he struck off.

So I am a little wary when I see a boat that needs "TLC."

Also, I often wonder about the quality question, and perhaps I need my eyes and attitude calibrated. I look at Grand Banks, for example and don't see anything that is many more quality than on many other boats, that are part of the "not-so-quality" boat brigade. Is it merely cache, or are Grand Banks, Kady Krogens and DeFevers really better quality? I spent two weeks with a friend on his 48 KK and thought it a fine boat, but other than gelcoat quality, don't think it is significantly high quality that the OA I am preparing to close on.

I am probably missing something and am guessing that I am going to get a whole bunch of correction/direction, and for that I thank you in advance.

Gordon

Gordon J said:

Also, I often wonder about the quality question, and perhaps I need my eyes and attitude calibrated. I look at Grand Banks, for example and don't see anything that is many more quality than on many other boats, that are part of the "not-so-quality" boat brigade. Is it merely cache, or are Grand Banks, Kady Krogens and DeFevers really better quality? I spent two weeks with a friend on his 48 KK and thought it a fine boat, but other than gelcoat quality, don't think it is significantly high quality that the OA I am preparing to close on.

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There are two types of quality. The first is manufacturing quality as would be accessed by quality control and by the type materials used and the workmanship but only from a manufacturer's viewpoint. Then there is perceived quality. That's what sells. That's what is important from a marketing standpoint.

We all view quality differently. To a Nordhavn purchaser it is design and ability to handle rough seas. To a Bayliss purchaser it's the performance and fishing capabilities.

If you're talking workmanship in terms of finish, there may be little difference between the boats you mentioned. In terms of materials used, the GB traditionally did have a lot of teak and nicely finished quality wood. If you talk hull design, each of the four boats mentioned strives for something different.

Ultimately, quality to you is likely how well it meets your desired purpose. For someone to just say boat A is better quality than boat B means nothing. One can say, boat A performs better or handles rough seas better or had a better gelcoat or finish or has nicer countertops in the galley and heads. Then that says something. Or one can say boat A's hull holds up better, has fewer water intrusions.

Boaters, as a group are humorous. One will talk negatively about many of the older Taiwanese boats, saying they have too much fiberglass and they're heavy and plodding and have poor performance. The other will say, they're great because they're sturdy boats, and the ones that are bad are the boats with thinner hulls or cored from the waterline up or just not having as much material in their structure so weighing far less.

What year and the production facility become important on many of the boats mentioned above.

BandB,

Thanks. I think we are in violent agreement. I only mentioned it here because a poster mentioned the obvious quality of the Lymann Morse, and it got me thinking of the bigger picture.

I often think that the difference in "perceived" quality often has a lot to do with price. And when people pay dearly, they tend to treat it better, take better care of it than a cheaper model. So, the boats with high initial prices are better cared for and hold their value better.

And of course all of us have to answer the question about how much of this perceived quality are we willing to pay for.

And you mention GB having lots of quality wood. Now I am now expert on wood working - a long shot from it - but I often have a difficult time telling whether one type of cabinet making is superior than another. Perhaps it is noticeable between a real top brand and a real bottom feeder.

I guess in general is that I cringe when I hear people use the term quality in connection with boats because I never know what they are talking about and I wonder if they know as well.

my $.02
Gordon

Oh man, what a heartbreaker. That sheerline! That long sweeping foredeck! what a beauty.

For someone that wants to venture offshore the prime concern is SCANTLINGS.

The hull , deck and all the rest must be strong enough to have a breaking wave hit the vessel,climb aboard, perhaps for hours .

Or for the boat to be picked up and tossed on her beam.

No amount of paint or varnish can make an inshore , lakes bays and harbors boat suitable for an ocean crossing.

So this gets somewhat at my point. I have never heard of a Beneteau for example being smashed and torn apart at sea just as I have never seen heavier boats such as a Slocum smashed and torn apart at sea. Both boats are rated A for Bluewater sailing. Quality in this case, might be associated with heaviness. But, I wonder whether the heaviness of the boat is really quality, or can be associated with quality. Perhaps it is just the way old Boats were built and has nothing to do with safety in the long run.

When I read stories of people dying at sea, the stories are typically about a crew who abandons their boat never to be found again, while the boat is found floating intact at some distant corner of the world.

It seems intuitive, that heavier would be related to higher-quality. In the 60s and 70s we often's scoffed at plastic parts on cars, which are increasingly made with plastic and which are increasingly becoming more safe. Inch thick fiberglass maybe safer then three eights inch thick fiberglass, but for that one chance in 100 million that I will need such thickness, I question whether the higher price is worth the decreased risk.

Gordon

At a large yard where I know many of the workers the understanding of quality is termed "Walmart boats." Some obvious things they note stem from their daily activities with FRP repairs, through hull or thruster installs, system repairs and running gear maintenance.

Their list of quality boats is short and "Wamart boats" long.