Contract Signed / New Build Underway

Pictures

Art said:

Hi John,

Unless I'm mistaken... post 161, 191,192 are the only three on your thread that show pictures of your new-build. Seems you've mentioned other photos. Have any to share?

May is getting close. Bet Scott would not mind for TF members to see more about your boat.

Happy Boar-Build Daze - Art

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We just received some great pictures from Scott of the yard and all the boats in process. I will start to post them tomorrow. Its been a busy week trading emails and discussing our changes. Very exciting week for us. More to follow over the weekend. Thanks to everyone who have been following our journey.

John

Update from the yard

It has been a busy week with numerous emails flying back and forth between Scott and I while he was at the yard in China. We started out discussing the pilothouse house forward facing windows and their appropriate angle along the bottom. While some may think this is getting into the "weeds" of building a boat and best left for the builder, I live for this part of the adventure.

I should mention that with all our changes along with other enhancements Scott was planning for this next generation H38PH a new top side mold was built from which they use to build the entire upper deck / salon / pilothouse structures. Getting everything properly laid out and located is critical during this part of the build process.

So after agreeing the pilothouse windows, I figured this was a great time to discuss yet another change (I'm not so sure Scott thought the same but he is always willing to listen). One of the great aspects of the H38PH is its open salon / galley area and large windows which provide for plenty of natural light. As much as we like the change to large windows I personally believe they may b a little too large for this boat and could be reduced without giving up any of the benefits. So why would I be so concerned with window size? My primary reasoning is safety. While we are not planning to cross any oceans we do find ourselves dealing with open ocean coastal cruising and southern California swells which can be large. The thought of a large swell breaking on our beam, while unlikely still makes me think twice about window size. The other aspect we thought we could improve was to add a little more separation between the windows allowing for a little more interior teak wood inside the salon. It didn't take Scott more than 24 hours to have the yard draw up a new profile with new windows about 15% smaller. He sent us a side by side comparison which Mary and I studied before emailing him back and said "let’s make the change".

The following is a list of changes we have made so far (many which will be standard on follow-on boats) include: enhanced all new PH roof line, extended upper aft deck, longer bow railings, revised salon windows (6 ea.) and all new galley / salon layout.

I'm attaching a new photo Scott forwarded showing a number of boats in different stages of production including the two 38PH in front of us. Notice how clean the floors are in this place, very impressive.

More to follow over the weekend..

John

New Deck Mold

Attached is a photo of the all new deck house mold the yard built to accept all the changes Scott and I are making to the all new H38PH"E". I think I have the new designation correct "E".

The mold allows for the longer upper aft deck and new pliot house roof.

John

N4061 said:

Attached is a photo of the all new deck house mold the yard built to accept all the changes Scott and I are making to the all new H38PH"E". I think I have the new designation correct "E".

The mold allows for the longer upper aft deck and new pliot house roof.

John

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John - I don't see photo or link.

N4061, I agree reducing the size of large saloon windows is a wise move for hostile, open waters (from one with large saloon windows boating in protected waters.) Don't see the angle of forward-leaning pilothouse windows to be critical unless the angle is extreme (from one who has forward leaning pilothouse windows.)

N4061 said:

As much as we like the change to large windows I personally believe they may b a little too large for this boat and could be reduced without giving up any of the benefits.

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Hi John. I found it to be very helpful to setup all sorts of cardboard mockups at home in my living room for the pilothouse, salon, galley, etc. My wife especially appreciated it, and there are times when a photo or a drawing just doesn't give you the true feeling. Regarding windows, I started way too small and then kept increasing size until I was comfortable, instead of from the other direction.

It sounds like you're probably past that now and are proceeding however. Hope it all works out well

Deck Plug Photo

Lets try this photo again;

More Photo's

A couple of boats ahead of us and our hull.

Thanks, John!

Mock-ups

makobuilders said:

Hi John. I found it to be very helpful to setup all sorts of cardboard mockups at home in my living room for the pilothouse, salon, galley, etc. My wife especially appreciated it, and there are times when a photo or a drawing just doesn't give you the true feeling. Regarding windows, I started way too small and then kept increasing size until I was comfortable, instead of from the other direction.


Great suggestion and something we actually have done over the years. We still have some of the cardboard left over in the garage. Another approach I used was to take out the tape measure and use our kitchen as the mock-up when trying to convey the size of the galley countertop area. While not exactly apples to apples it worked well. One thing we have learned over the years building houses and boats and recently at work when moving an entire manufacturing cell layout into another building is that everything looks larger on paper. Thanks

John

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And chance of getting full res pictures? What you posted are basically thumbnails (150x113) and you can't really see anything in them.

A look at Engine Rooms - Part II

When we left off discussing "engine room accessibility" I had shared one real life experience which I believe supports my position on the importance of proper engine room checks and easy ER access. Now lets take a closer look at accessibility into and around the engine.

One of the reasons we selected the N40 over other similar sized FD hull trawlers was the engine room door, great access around the main engine and through out the engine room itself. While the ceiling height was under 5 foot, it was plenty tall enough for me (5' 5") to kneel, sit or squat while performing hourly checks, cleaning or maintenance. The access door was under 4' but with the lower floor upon entering the ER it was large enough.

With and engine room door top on our list for any boat it does limit the playing field especially when you are looking at smaller boats and even worse when you move from FD to SD hull boats.

When we decided to test the waters a couple of years ago we selected the N35 (semi displacement boat) in part for the engine room access door (yes this was on a 35 footer) and the ample space around the large Yanmar engine. Granted the ceiling height was lower on the N35 I could still perform hourly checks and spent much more time working on the stuffing box then ever imagined.

Looking at the H38PH I have to give the designer credit for not only fitting a second head into the boat but also positioning the engine room access door (about the same size as the N35) under the raised pilothouse floor. The location of the engine room and entry point offers about 4' of head space and just enough for me to perform all my hourly checks without having to lift up hatches and disrupting the rest of the crew. The door is positioned such that you enter the ER on the port side and forward of the engine. You have to make an immediate right turn upon entering and find yourself forward of the engine. The day head wall is on the port side of the engine which prevents easy access and something I wish we could change but will have to live with. Fortunately all fills and accessories on the starboard side and in easy reach. All my temperature readings can take place on this side and aft of the engine. Ceiling height drops once you crawl aft but with out having the generator there are very few times we would need to travel that far aft and when we do we can always life the salon floor hatches. For major work on the engine there is a very large hinged hatch in the center of the pilothouse floor with a nice ladder leading down. We have the best of both worlds with this boat.

Also located inside the engine room is a large tool cabinet (missing on smaller Nordhavn's but found on the Kadey Krogen 39) and storage for fluids and oils. Nice touch. Electrical and plumbing appear to be neat, labeled and accessible. Another nice touch are the removal floor fiberglass floor boards.

One thing I really appreciated on the N40's was the one piece engine room floor mold. This was so easy to keep clean and even after a couple of years of use you could eat off the floor. Granted I would clean it down after every run. The down side of this great look was limited access to hoses, electrical wires and some fittings. I remember chasing a water leak working blind under the floor and cursing this one piece mold. Then when we purchased the N35 the engine room floor was just stringers and the hull. Talk about being bare and dirty. The great thing about this approach was that "everything" was accessible. I really came to appreciate this and eventually placed custom cut pieces of carpet between the stringers to help make things look cleaner.

Fast forward the H38 and boat comes with removal fiberglass floorboards. They are white in color, washable and strong. Talk about the best of the both worlds? I have to wonder why more serious boats don't offer this perfect blend of functionality and appearance!

So there have our quick view of the H38PH engine room and one of the main reasons we selected this boat.

John

Photo's (again)

Lets see if these work

Yard Photo's

Larger size photo's

Years ago when I visited Windmist's PH38, I was impressed by the size, height and excellent lighting in the ER. Everything was easily accessible including his watermaker on the port ER bulkhead. Very impressive for a boat this size.

Great stuff, John!

Thanks, those pics are much better.

So how far along are things? Is any of the machinery installed? Plumbing? Wiring? Cabinetry? Other equipment? Watching a boat get built is a fascinating process.

John, I am loving reading about this build and the reasons you made the choices you did.

This isn't meant to be disparaging in any way, but it almost sounds like you are enjoying the build and design process as much or more as you will enjoy using the boat.

dhays said:

John, I am loving reading about this build and the reasons you made the choices you did.

This isn't meant to be disparaging in any way, but it almost sounds like you are enjoying the build and design process as much or more as you will enjoy using the boat.

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John is definitely into the building aspect of it.

Design Drawings

Well after months of trying to upload a copy of our drawing (using Excel) I gave up and took a picture of the drawing from my laptop computer using my cell phone. Believe it or not this is how we redesigned both interior and exterior changes of the boat and even designed another similar size boat (never built). While its enjoyable visiting an existing boat with tape measure in hand and taking dozens of measurements before returning home and spending countless hours on the computer it can get frustrating at times. Especially when you realize you didn't take that one measurement which many decisions are based from. Before long you find yourself back on an airplane flying back to Seattle and being a pest to Scott and Lisa. I will admit taking another flight related to building your boat is much more enjoyable then a business trip - go figure? I believe I made four trip to Seattle (so far) related to this boat and would not count out a fifth and final trip if the yard runs into issues with our changes and I'm forced to make changes.

In this drawing you will see we started out with the boats original dimensions and insured our changes did not impact anything structural. So working within these constraints we limited our changes to carpentry, electrical, plumbing and now window sizes. Despite not making structural changes we still required new engineering blue prints produced by the yard for a nominal fee (nominal being the subjective word).

OK, lets hope the photo comes through.

John

Boat Building

BandB said:

John is definitely into the building aspect of it.

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Don't tell my wife (Mary). If she gets wind of this I'm sunk

John

N4061 said:

Don't tell my wife (Mary). If she gets wind of this I'm sunk

John

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I highly suspect she's very aware of it.

Boats Tops

I believe a while back we discussed our options related to the type and style of covering we wanted over the flybridge. The boat arrives without any type of canvas or fixed structure so we are fortunate to be working with a blank piece of paper in this area of the boat. At first I envisioned a simple folding canvas Bimini top over the two pedestal seats then Mary suggested something to cover the large L-shaped seating area behind the chairs. This quickly turned into an all new designed fiberglass hard top which Scott was open to discuss. The more research I put into this the more I decided (again) "simpler is better" and we have decided not to pursue the hard top. Our primary reasoning was my concern of adding weight and surface area or windage high up and its potentially negative impact on the boat especially in rough weather.

The other issue which I struggled with was the over all change in appearance a large hard top with side support structures would have on the boat. I spent some time looking at the current trend of many trawler builders who are adding (in my opinion) something relatively "sleek" to a more tradition designed boat and I didn't like the mixed look.

So at this point we are leaning towards a single, relatively long canvas top that covers both the flybridge and aft seating area which we can fold up when not in use. We will have custom coverings made for the entire flybridge area to help keep the sun and occasional rain off the fiberglass and materials. Since our previous canvas maker retired we will be searching for another company we can work with on this project along with all the pilothouse window coverings. That's about it on canvas.

John

Gunwall

I'm back again today. Yes it appears I have a little time on my hands and posting more than usual. Lets blame it on taking Friday off work, having some fun and Mary & I driving to Palm Springs for lunch. Living in southern California has changed significantly the past 30 years when you could jump in your nice car and cruise to the beach to Hollywood in 45 minutes. Now its more like "wait we can not go because rush hour is going to start soon" and you have to really time your trips anywhere. It really sucks.

During Christmas 2015 I bought Mary a new car (Mercedes SL 400) which was her dream care and something she deserved. Talk about "NOT" keeping it simple. She never drives the car so we try to take it our once a month to keep the battery charged. Friday we took the car to Palm Springs (no traffic that direction) about a 60 mile run for lunch. Talk about snow birds, the strip was packed with people and we had a difficult time finding a place to eat without a wait. We had a great lunch in 85 degree weather before heading back home. Thus the time home today to write and back to boating.

Another nice surprise we received this week from Scott was due to the all new mold for the deck house and some minor changes to the hull mold we are gaining 2" to the Gunwall. While many people don'y think this is a big deal we do. OK, here comes the story.

After owning and cruising two larger Nordhavn's I was starting to feel "detached" from the sea. Many days cruising along in calm water up high in the flybridge where we were a good eight feet above the water feeling detached from the water. Even in the pilothouse we were well above the water (a good thing if your crossing an ocean) and rarely seen the water pass by, just the water ahead. Maybe this is due in part to our five years fishing off our 22' Mako Center Console? Anyway I really enjoyed the feel of the smaller N35 and being closer to the water.

Fast forward to the H38PH and the boat offers the right balance of height above the water, high enough bow for rough sea's but a little extra gunwall was on my mind. Hearing the news we picked up 2" almost makes the boat closer to perfect. Talk about timing and boat that is really going to be the next generation H38. Things are looking up

John

Curious as to the detachment from the water. I think speed helps us avoid it, especially when the weather allows us outdoors. However, we also have been accused of using our tenders/dinghies/RIB's more than any others. Much like what your center console did for you. So, what type dinghy/tender do you plan and how much will you use it other than simply to get to shore?

Tenders

BandB said:

Curious as to the detachment from the water. I think speed helps us avoid it, especially when the weather allows us outdoors. However, we also have been accused of using our tenders/dinghies/RIB's more than any others. Much like what your center console did for you. So, what type dinghy/tender do you plan and how much will you use it other than simply to get to shore?

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Detachment from the water was to translate the boat was too large or tall providing a feeling that we were on a cruise ship of sort and no way near the water. This is a gross exaggeration but I think it explains the feeling. I want to be closer to the water (like on sail boat) until things get rough then I'll be wishing for bigger, much bigger so I will be watching the weather forecasts a little closer.

Regarding a tender choice we are not sure. We had excellent experience with a 9' Caribe inflatable soft bottom which believe it or not we purchased long before the Nordies and called it our "Boat in a bag". We would put the boat in the back of the PT Cruiser and the gas tank / oars / ropes in a car carrier on top of the car and take that boat to all the the southern California harbors for a day out on the water. Talk about simplicity and great fun! You have me thinking we may have gone overboard with the H38PH.

I like the Caribe's for their larger tubes but go with their hard bottom rib model. I also like the look of the Whitetail (?) composite rowing boats with teak trim (Mary doesn't care for the look) so I'm not sure yet. The tender will be used for pre-dinner cruises inside the marina, transportation from the boat to the dingy dock at Catalina Island and other anchorages. Nothing too serious and it only needs to accommodate the two of us plus Daisy (she weighs 7 lbs). A small 10hp OB is all the power we need. Again, keeping it simple.

John

N4061 said:

Detachment from the water was to translate the boat was too large or tall providing a feeling that we were on a cruise ship of sort and no way near the water. This is a gross exaggeration but I think it explains the feeling. I want to be closer to the water (like on sail boat) until things get rough then I'll be wishing for bigger, much bigger so I will be watching the weather forecasts a little closer.

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I understand completely. One or our early questions was, "At what size does it stop feeling like a boat?" We were thinking more in terms of length than height. Our boating until 2012 was lake boating and a bowrider, then it was sport boating such as a Riva at first. When we were trying to figure it all out and chartering we chartered one boat that lost the feeling for us. Incredible boat but we didn't feel it.

John:

I too love the look of the classic Whitehall Spirit row boats, whether it be the scull, sailing or the classic rowing version they are just plain beautiful little boats.

Whitehall Spirit® Solo 14™ & Tango 17™ - Whitehall Rowing and Sail

The home built all wooden ones are beautiful. Here's a link to one of my favorites...

http://boatbuilders.glen-l.com/6696/whitehall-rowing-craft-builder-interview/

N4061 said:

I like the Caribe's for their larger tubes but go with their hard bottom rib model. I also like the look of the Whitetail (?) composite rowing boats with teak trim (Mary doesn't care for the look) so I'm not sure yet. The tender will be used for pre-dinner cruises inside the marina, transportation from the boat to the dingy dock at Catalina Island and other anchorages. Nothing too serious and it only needs to accommodate the two of us plus Daisy (she weighs 7 lbs). A small 10hp OB is all the power we need. Again, keeping it simple.

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This may be a sacrilegious suggestion, but have you ever considered an electric outboard? I have one for my dinghy on my sailboat. My rational was like this. I don't need to go fast in my dinghy in the waters that I sail. I also don't have to go very far. I don't like to carry gasoline around with me on my boat. With an electric motor, there is no annual maintenance. No fumes. No noise. Lightweight. Solar panel or 12v charger always keeps the battery fully charged.

It wouldn't work for many as they need to make longer runs with their tender. But if you like simple, it is worth considering.

dhays said:

This may be a sacrilegious suggestion, but have you ever considered an electric outboard? It wouldn't work for many as they need to make longer runs with their tender. But if you like simple, it is worth considering.

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That's a very good idea. I'm going in the direction of an inflatable with an inflatable bottom, which limits to about 10ft and slow speeds. Just for going ashore, like you said. I'd like to keep the motor simple, like a Seagull with a built in fuel tank, or similar.

Perhaps an electric outboard (not a trolling motor) with a quick-connecting battery, could be the way to go. That eliminates gasoline.

BandB said:

I understand completely. One or our early questions was, "At what size does it stop feeling like a boat?"

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When I proudly owned my 65 footer, standing on the flybridge, I felt like captain of a 100ft motor yacht. But honestly I understand what you guys are saying as it was very detached and after awhile I yearned to be on those "little" 30ft cruisers who were down at the water, fishing 12 inches off the water and feeling the spray in their faces. Of course, since I'm one of the world's most God-awful fishermen, maybe it wasn't such an issue anyway???