Private mooring Tsehum Harbour Sidney

Hawgwash · Feb 23, 2016

Just came across this mooring buoy for $1750 Can.

http://victoria.craigslist.ca/boa/5443859031.html

What I was told;
You can see it from the fuel dock.
It was put down 3 years ago and inspected last July.
3 inch wide chain weighing 300 lbs.
200 lb. cement block with 11 100 lb. cement bags attached.
Transient rental is allowed.

dhays · Feb 23, 2016

lol, I was just thinking what a great scam that would be. Sell off random mooring buoys that you don't own or that are placed illegally.

How does one verify the ownership of a mooring buoy?

BandB · Feb 23, 2016

dhays said:
lol, I was just thinking what a great scam that would be. Sell off random mooring buoys that you don't own or that are placed illegally.

How does one verify the ownership of a mooring buoy?

Plus determine it is legally placed and that the right to place it there is transferable? I'm just not familiar with the practices of privately owner mooring bouys in mooring fields.

dhays · Feb 23, 2016

BandB said:
Plus determine it is legally placed and that the right to place it there is transferable? I'm just not familiar with the practices of privately owner mooring bouys in mooring fields.

Good questions. Here in WA state, a private residence has the privilege of setting a mooring buoy adjacent to their property as long as it doesn't interfere with prior rights or interfere with navigation. What they can't do is lease or rent that buoy separate from the residence. ie, you can't rent a mooring buoy you placed in front of your house, but you can rent the house with the mooring buoy.

JDCAVE · Feb 25, 2016

BandB said:
Plus determine it is legally placed and that the right to place it there is transferable? I'm just not familiar with the practices of privately owner mooring bouys in mooring fields.

It's a gong show up here! Regulations are few to none! You don't need to be resident to out one down. I know of of a chap from California who has one off Annette,Pont, Prevost Is. I live in Lions Bay and I know of someone from Squamish who has one off one of the waterfront properties here.

Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

BandB · Feb 25, 2016

JDCAVE said:
It's a gong show up here! Regulations are few to none! You don't need to be resident to out one down. I know of of a chap from California who has one off Annette,Pont, Prevost Is. I live in Lions Bay and I know of someone from Squamish who has one off one of the waterfront properties here.

Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

Well, as I recall in going back and finding some videos of the gong show, one can ultimately be gonged.

sunchaser · Feb 25, 2016

Fortunately there is a Harbour Authority for this buoy field as well as legal holders for the private ones. If anyone is truly interested the ownership and niceties are easy enough to sort out. I see this mooring field 100 meters off my back deck. But, lots of shallow water.

Hawgwash · Feb 25, 2016

sunchaser said:
Fortunately there is a Harbour Authority for this buoy field as well as legal holders for the private ones. If anyone is truly interested the ownership and niceties are easy enough to sort out.

Then you know something few others do.
In doing some homework for curiosity only, Van Isle Marina referred me to Parks Canada, who sent me to the Tsehum Harbour Wharfinger who stated emphatically, Transport Canada in Vancouver is the proper authority.

Transport Canada entered me in the departmental hopscotch parade with no return call from any of the 5 voice mailrooms I entered.

The gentleman offering the mooring while being decent and legitimate, has no clue about authorities or niceties. :banghead:

boatpoker · Feb 25, 2016

private mooring buoys are becoming a significant issue on the route from Toronto to the Bahamas. eg. Beaufort NC, a terrific anchorage destroyed by people planting old V8's with chain and charging $25 per night. Not sure how they get away with taking over public domain for a profit.

JDCAVE · Feb 25, 2016

Hawgwash said:
Then you know something few others do.
In doing some homework for curiosity only, Van Isle Marina referred me to Parks Canada, who sent me to the Tsehum Harbour Wharfinger who stated emphatically, Transport Canada in Vancouver is the proper authority.

Transport Canada entered me in the departmental hopscotch parade with no return call from any of the 5 voice mailrooms I entered.

The gentleman offering the mooring while being decent and legitimate, has no clue about authorities or niceties.

People are plopping them down without a lot of info and they certainly aren't checking with authorities. I know the guy at the Lions Bay marina who is doing the work and he just takes your money and drops them down. The Village thinks they have jurisdiction but in reality, they don't. It's a complicated mess, to which Hawgwash alludes. Also complicated with foreshore rights but it's all ignored.

Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

TDunn · Feb 25, 2016

Unless that mooring is in a very protected harbor it is a very light duty setup. For example, I have a private mooring in a reasonably protected harbor. It consists of a 5,000 lump of granite, 40' of 1-1/4" chain (bottom chain), 40' of 5/8" top chain and a 20'x 7/8" double braid pennant. My mooring is rated for a 40' boat. My mooring is in 31' at high water and 16 feet a low.

Here moorings are regulated by the local town. I have a permit and pay an annual fee. I cannot rent my mooring out unless I agree to have it inspected annually. For a non-rental mooring the inspection cycle is 3 years.

dhays · Feb 25, 2016

In Puget Sound, virtually all mooring buoys need to have a permit by the Washington Dept of Natural Resources (DNR). Any moorings that don't have the permit as illegal. Most mooring in Puget Sound are illegal but enforcement is difficult. Generally, DNR responds to complaints, ie you put a mooring in front of another persons property, have an abandoned vessel attached to it, or it impedes navigation in some way.

One of DNRs concerns is how the chain from moorings scours the sea floor, damaging eelgrass and kelp beds. These are important for continued fish habitat so DNR is encouraging (requiring?) the use of all rope moorings with a mid-line float to keep the line from rubbing along the seabed. These would need to be dived on for maintenance much more frequently than the old "hunk of concrete and chain" moorings which are so common.

refugio · Feb 28, 2016

Also, I believe that regs are moving towards screw anchors rather than random-assed lumps of whatever.

Keith

Hawgwash · Feb 28, 2016

refugio said:
Also, I believe that regs are moving towards screw anchors rather than random-assed lumps of whatever.

Lots of random-assed stuff up here. We still use tide grids and I bet Eric is the only one knows what they are.
:whistling:

TDunn · Feb 28, 2016

Hawgwash said:
Lots of random-assed stuff up here. We still use tide grids and I bet Eric is the only one knows what they are.

I have used one for some quick bottom work. We have one next to the town dock.

Hawgwash · Feb 28, 2016

TDunn said:
I have used one for some quick bottom work. We have one next to the town dock.

Well yeah, but you're probably the same vintage as Eric.

And me.

clyde · Feb 28, 2016

where the heck is 'lions bay', bc

rochepoint · Feb 28, 2016

clyde said:
where the heck is 'lions bay', bc

Google is you friend, search "Lions Bay, BC" and it will show you on a map. It is about 15 miles north of Horseshoe Bay on the east side of Howe Sound...

Hawgwash · Feb 28, 2016

Google, my friend, Google. But then we don't want everybody to know either.

MurrayM · Feb 28, 2016

Google is indeed your friend...this was the first item listed for searching: transport Canada mooring

https://www.tc.gc.ca/Publications/en/TP14799/PDF/HR/TP14799E.pdf

Where it says, in part;

The Navigable Waters Protection Act (NWPA) protects the public right of navigation in all Canadian waters. It states, “No work shall be built or placed in, on, over, under, through or across any navigable water unless it is approved by the Minister.”

The Navigable Water Protection Program (NWPP) may require work owners to install private buoys or other aids to navigation to mark wharves, marinas, aquaculture areas, water intakes and outfalls, dams, and bridges, etc. According to the NWPA, these buoys must be reviewed and approved along with the work, and must be installed and maintained according to legal standards, or as directed by the Minister.

Transport Canada considers mooring buoys as “works” under the NWPA, since they usually secure vessels in fixed locations (such as docks, piers or wharves), and do not aid or direct mariners.

This means that the placement of a mooring buoy is subject to review and approval under the NWPA, unless otherwise excluded by TC policies and standards. To learn more, please contact your local NWPP office.

You're welcome

dhays · Feb 28, 2016

Hawgwash said:
Lots of random-assed stuff up here. We still use tide grids and I bet Eric is the only one knows what they are.

I have lots of memories from my childhood and youth (not altogether pleasant ones) of working on the hull of my dad's sailboat, usually at 3:00 am in the dark and cold trying to get the work done on the tide. It seems as if the right tides never would occur during the day on a weekend but at night. Maybe it was just my Dad's peculiar sense of time. :smitten:

clyde · Feb 28, 2016

we have a tidal grid at port orchard yc! use it every yr! i helped build it, and was the 1st one to use it! every town in alaska has one or more grids...when we lived in wrangell, ak, there were 2 grids, used to do all, or most of the bottom work! every spring, i got the privledge of wrapping my hands around a paint brush handle!...clyde

Hawgwash · Feb 28, 2016

rochepoint said:
Google is you friend, search "Lions Bay, BC" and it will show you on a map. It is about 15 miles north of Horseshoe Bay on the east side of Howe Sound...

Until the very late 1960s Lions Bay was a small collection of summer homes accessed by a gravel road. Howe Sound was pretty much like so many of the coastal inlets; rugged and mostly uninhabited.

Today, the Village of Lions Bay, with a population of about 1,500 is an enclave of the elite. Sorry Mr. Cave. Retired politicians, greens and my dentist who as an avid triathlete, seems to coordinate exotic cruises with my root canals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions_Bay

Hawgwash · Feb 28, 2016

MurrayM said:
You're welcome

Ah yes and thankyew. Now, if only I can get them to return my phone call to answer a simple question "how to authenticate ownership."

koliver · Feb 28, 2016

Hawg:

I have a properly installed private mooring bouy in front of my house on Saltspring Island. I had it placed about 4 years ago, complete for $1400.00 I don't know if the price has changed much since then.
The anchor is a 5' x 2.5'x2.5' concrete block that I have been told weighs approx 4000#. The chain is 3" long 1/2" diameter links, galvanized. I used my own "topper" 2 tire float, but had I wanted, would have had a float that looks like the one advertised, for no extra charge. After three years I had a diver inspect all of the gear. He advised me to remove the bottom 10' of chain, as he thought it would not wrap around the block and sink the float, as he presumed (correctly) had been occurring. That process also eliminated a worn shackle at the bottom. He told me to put him on my calendar for another inspection in 2018.
As for location, that area is under the jurisdiction of the Harbours Board. When I asked about my own location, they told me it was fair game, so long as I was not impeding the fairway. Since Google Maps shows a number of private moorings in Tsehum Harbour, I presume they are all operating on the same level of permission, ie '"OK until it isn't any more".

Hawgwash · Feb 28, 2016

koliver; said:
I presume they are all operating on the same level of permission, ie '"OK until it isn't any more".

Thanks. I presume you are correct since everyone says "I see notheeeng."

djones44 · Feb 28, 2016

JDCAVE said:
People are plopping them down without a lot of info and they certainly aren't checking with authorities. I know the guy at the Lions Bay marina who is doing the work and he just takes your money and drops them down. The Village thinks they have jurisdiction but in reality, they don't. It's a complicated mess, to which Hawgwash alludes. Also complicated with foreshore rights but it's all ignored.

And then there's the free-lance crab traps up here to make night boating so exciting.

- Dwight

refugio · Feb 28, 2016

clyde said:
...every town in alaska has one or more grids...

When I was living on my small Romsdahl in Harris Harbor (Juneau) back around 1981 there was a converted minesweeper on our grid that fell over and broke the hull. The tide went in and out of that boat for a couple of weeks until they got it patched up and refloated. I think I have a couple slides of it buried in my archives.

Keith

Hawgwash · Feb 28, 2016

djones44; said:
And then there's the free-lance crab traps up here to make night boating so exciting.

Somebody in Ladysmith Harbour has the answer to crab traps. They just go out and take 'em. I know two locals who have lost two sets each.

Was a time I thought nothing of running back to Vancouver at night from oh, I don't know, maybe Hardy Island, maybe Boat Harbour or somewhere. In fact I used to love coming through the harbour at night.

Sometimes it would be so dead out there, we'd get a 3 or 4 way chat going between maybe a tug, a transiting fish boat and Vancouver Traffic or even Park Royal. Just for fun and company.

I doubt I would be so eager for that any more.

Private mooring Tsehum Harbour Sidney

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