What the heck is wrong with canvas people?

I need a new enclosure and bimini made for our FB. It's a big job, I'm expecting it to be along the lines of five to seven thousand dollars.

Our boat is in Stuart, FL, right next door to Sunset Bay Marina. Stuart is LOADED with boats, it's one of the boating capitols of Florida. There are at least 6 marine canvas guys in a 10 mile radius of our marina.

I've called all six of them at least four times each over a three week period. One of them was professional enough to let me know that he was too busy and couldn't take the job. The rest all say "yeah, I'll get out there tomorrow to take a look and give you an estimate." Not one of them has been on my boat yet.

Is there that much business that they can just ignore a job of this size? Do they not want the work? I haven't told anyone I'm in a hurry, nor have I told them I want it cheap.

Really crappy service.

Just a wild guess but it might be they want to be a subcontractor to a marina so they are assured to be paid.

Welcome to the marine industry in general. It's not just the canvas guys.

Ever thought about doing it yourself?

I had the same thing happen last year. I talked to a guy twice and he never showed.

Giggitoni said:

Welcome to the marine industry in general. It's not just the canvas guys.

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I'm sad to say it's not just the marine industry either.

Dougcole said:

I need a new enclosure and bimini made for our FB. It's a big job, I'm expecting it to be along the lines of five to seven thousand dollars.

Our boat is in Stuart, FL, right next door to Sunset Bay Marina. Stuart is LOADED with boats, it's one of the boating capitols of Florida. There are at least 6 marine canvas guys in a 10 mile radius of our marina.

I've called all six of them at least four times each over a three week period. One of them was professional enough to let me know that he was too busy and couldn't take the job. The rest all say "yeah, I'll get out there tomorrow to take a look and give you an estimate." Not one of them has been on my boat yet.

Is there that much business that they can just ignore a job of this size? Do they not want the work? I haven't told anyone I'm in a hurry, nor have I told them I want it cheap.

Really crappy service.

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I have a friend who is a yacht manager in the area and he went through the same thing with canvas guys, even ones he had dealt with many times in the past. They seem to have more business than they can do. I do think as someone else mentioned a lot of them are doing a lot of subcontracting for shipyards and they realize they have a lot of business riding on doing it right and on time, so that's their priority. Still I would have thought someone who manage many boats would have gotten their attention.

River Rat said:

I'm sad to say it's not just the marine industry either.

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The flip side...my son is a successful small electrical contractor. People get POed at him when he says he is too busy; can't handle it. Like he should just hire more people.

I don't think canvas people are any different than other small contractors. Not showing up helps you weed out the unreliable ones.

Its just not your area. On the Columbia River we have the same problem. The guy I use does great work, but took him all summer to outfit my boat. The guy is extremely busy but when he tries to hire someone they either fail the drug test or want $40 an hour. So it isn't just Florida.


May I suggest visiting some of the shops and talk to them. Try not to impress you want the job done yesterday, rather once you agree on the price, offer to pay half, then discuss a deadline. What happens if he misses the deadline? Some free work, extra work or as I did a "fine" of $50 a day when he misses the deadline. I also got little freebies like flag covers, BBQ and winch covers for free......

I'm sorry you're having such trouble getting someone to look at your canvas.

I recently had the opposite experience with a canvas company. Had seagulls try to open clams on top of my bimini. Got a local recommendation, guy showed up the next day. Following week, had new Bimini, fits great. Best part is they use a CAD machine to do their work. He said if I ever need replacement, call him he can ship identical Bimini anywhere, as long as the frame doesn't change I'm good.

They're not all bad, hope you find a good one soon!

Crusty Chief said:

Ever thought about doing it yourself?

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I can sew a little bit, but our FB is huge, crafting a bimini and full enclosure for it is not a job for a first time learning experience.

Had a similar experience here in Campbell River, but then I heard about Will at Friendly Bear Fabricators. Excellent - he got back to me in a timely manner, came to the boat and took measurements, and shortly after installed perfectly fitting canvas covers. Highly recommend him.

Dougcole said:

Is there that much business that they can just ignore a job of this size? Do they not want the work? I haven't told anyone I'm in a hurry, nor have I told them I want it cheap.

Really crappy service.

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Find this to be a common (half-the-time) occurrence.

I needed genset work. Major dealer guy broke 3 commitments over 6 weeks w/o call.

Not just in boating but how many people know at the end of the season, something needs doing, sleep on it all winter and then want it done when everyone else does?

To add to the shipyard/boatyard theory, I had an acquaintance who got frustrated on his canvas, took it to a boatyard, and in less than two weeks, the canvas maker who wouldn't return his call had done it for the yard.

Hawgwash said:

Not just in boating but how many people know at the end of the season, something needs doing, sleep on it all winter and then want it done when everyone else does?

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Yup, thats why we had a long list of things that needed work, so we took the boat out of the water early November and got right to it. Most things are done and we're looking good for a shakedown trip in a few weeks.

I had a major project done last year, winter of 2014/15. Had the water tanks replaced, lots of surgery and barrier coat and bottom paint. I started talking with the marina about it during the middle of 2014 about what I wanted. It was launched in April of 2015 with everything finished except a transducer install the mechanic forgot about, they hauled and installed it while the boat was in the slings, no charge for the haul. Not waiting till a month or so before the season to get your project in the pipeline is the best way to get a major project done.


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Yeah, Stewart is that busy. I've called for numerous services including canvas, and gotten very slow service, albeit good quality. Same with genset, main engine and fiberglass & paint. If you want quality in Stuart, you're going to have to wait. Indiantown isn't any better. One way around it is to pull your boat and contract to a yard, somebody small but experienced like A&J Boatworks down in Manatee pocket. They have limited yard space and lean on the contractors to keep schedules. The last work I had done there was by G&G Canvas. Took a while but good quality.

Dougcole said:

I can sew a little bit, but our FB is huge, crafting a bimini and full enclosure for it is not a job for a first time learning experience.

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Nothing but time. Well, may need a lot of beer....

If you do a few small projects first, it will teach ya a butt load! you'll be surprised at how well a couple can work together and save some serious bucks.

Then again, I've seen a few couples that really shouldn't work together.

Bacchus set up a canvas tips and help post, take a look, might want to give it a go!

Best of luck, whichever way you go!

Here's the link if your so inclined.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/diy-canvas-tips-tricks-recommendations-22037.html

Giggitoni said:

Welcome to the marine industry in general. It's not just the canvas guys.

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Different over here in Queensland right now. Marina offering half price hard stand, and shipwrights, trimmers and carpenters clamouring for work.

Trouble is I don't need anything done right now...bet you by the time I do, the 'specials' run will be over.

Wonder if a guy could set up a small canvas operation on the right kind of trawler

Peter B said:

Different over here in Queensland right now. Marina offering half price hard stand, and shipwrights, trimmers and carpenters clamouring for work.

Trouble is I don't need anything done right now...bet you by the time I do, the 'specials' run will be over.

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Interesting Peter. to minimise drift, I`ll send a PM.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Its just not your area. On the Columbia River we have the same problem. The guy I use does great work, but took him all summer to outfit my boat. The guy is extremely busy but when he tries to hire someone they either fail the drug test or want $40 an hour. So it isn't just Florida.


May I suggest visiting some of the shops and talk to them. Try not to impress you want the job done yesterday, rather once you agree on the price, offer to pay half, then discuss a deadline. What happens if he misses the deadline? Some free work, extra work or as I did a "fine" of $50 a day when he misses the deadline. I also got little freebies like flag covers, BBQ and winch covers for free......

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I should change my location - I'm on the Columbia River in Portland, OR.

Can't agree more. I was waiting for a electrician to help me get started installing a new electrical panel that, with his supervision, I pre-wired in his shop. Like the guy very much & I consider him a friend. He has yet to show up when he says he will -- he is that busy. He told me that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease". My guess that is how he deals with the stress of his business. I'm looking at my new panel setting in a chair - waiting for him to show up & help me with Temp power. I can do it, I just don't have all the tools I need on the boat. So I'm waiting again. Give him the weekend off, then I'll go make eye contact with him on Monday. That's just the way it goes. Not my way of doing business. Just saying.

Addressing your statement regarding back charges. You bet!!! When you do that, it gets their attention fast!! What it will also do when you take their bid, is that, it will weed-out the want-to-be contractors.

When it comes to getting immediate action from boat vendors, our resident expert is Janice (aboard Seaweed). All issues related to delayed promises of work should be forwarded to her for constructive advisement.

healhustler said:

When it comes to getting immediate action from boat vendors, our resident expert is Janice (aboard Seaweed). All issues related to delayed promises of work should be forwarded to her for constructive advisement.

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Thanks Larry... it's tough to hear you over the sound of my running engine.

And if there is anyone on this forum who has suffered through lies, obfuscations, down right lies, delays, missed promises, dates broken, poor workmanship, lousy details, "unique" (and not in a good way) design flaws, you should speak with me.

I failed and failed again. What I did not do was quit.

As for how to find someone that makes a promise and delivers, I wish I knew.

BandB spoke in a thread about her/his test for hiring folks. The three things that stuck out in my mind were these:
#1) No criticism of previous work or cutting down competitors. I've had that EVERYWHERE it seems and it Never makes the current guy look smarter.

#2) Professionalism -- when asked opinions a good solid reason why to do something one way and not another.

#3) Being willing to pay for that service too.

I'm at the lower end of the $$ scale and have relied on shade tree mechanics in the past. I'm done with that. I've learned a lot (way more than anticipated or desired) about this Kubota. It's surprisingly not that complicated. What I lack though is physical strength.

I don't have it and that's cost me time. The "kids" (anyone younger than me) don't realize that broken promises especially about time are felt far more as I age. Maybe two weeks to them doesn't matter, but to me, that's time. Stealing my time is NOT A GOOD THING.

Some workers steal your money. The time thieves are the worser of the two.

Have I mentioned Betsy (the engine) runs, and runs beautifully?!? If you don't own stock in Crest you might want to buy some. I'm smiling so much the toothpaste companies are bound to make a profit this year!

Janice

So happy to hear your engine is running well now.

You mentioned time. My career was with manufacturing companies and time and efficiency were so key. I learned the value of engineering the work and processes but also insisting on timely delivery by others. The penalty wasn't normally a dollar amount but that you'd never get work from us again.

Somewhat retired it's hard for me to put a value on my time. Is it what I could earn in an hour if working? Is it what I bill for an hour of my time as a consultant? Or is it zero because I'd be doing nothing that makes money and might even be spending money?

Emotionally I still value time and I'll spend to some degree to have it. I still have a hard time thinking of the cost of anything and not including anything for my time. For instance, you tell me I can buy a product for $100 or build it in 8 hours for $40 of parts. The way my mind works I immediately think I'm only making $7.50 an hour. Now if it's something I enjoy doing that's one thing, but otherwise I'd never do it.

You bring forth a much more important view of time though. You learned it through your cancer issues I'm sure. We all have limited time in our lives and we don't have any idea how much that is. So we really do need to treasure every moment. You rob me of time and you're stolen some of my most important possession. I think of it as the ultimate act of rudeness. Why? Because you're telling me that your time is more valuable than mine.

It's for that reason I have no tolerance for being late for an appointment or meeting. I refused to delay the start of meetings for late arrivals. And, I have very low tolerance for anyone who promises me something on a given date and don't deliver. Don't promise if you can't deliver. You're saying that what I have planned, what I intend to do isn't important to you, even though I'm your customer.

Now, I'll tell you that we, the consumers, have caused much of this decline. We refused to pay a premium for service. We don't hold people we deal with accountable. We return to them in the future and they do the same to us again. Does anyone here think Walmart provides A+ service? Well, we made them what they are as we continually selected them based on price only. We blame the service providers such as the mechanics for the trends to poor service, but we, as consumers, are really the ones to blame.

Even if it's not to anyone else, my time is important to me. Robbing me of my time is as bad to me as stealing money from me. I'm tolerant about exceptional problems that arise. Yes, we shipped 1.5% of our shipments late (vs. an industry average of 30+%). But we did notify every customer before the due date of any late items. That is an absolute demand I make from a mechanic or other vendor. At the very least you can keep me informed. If I have to call you the day after the due date to find out, I'm not at all happy about it.

I guess you know this author then?