dhmeissner
Guru
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2012
- Messages
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- Vessel Name
- The Promise
- Vessel Make
- Roughwater 35
You might find a good buy on a motor sailor. Good luck, and welcome to the 10%
Old and Decrepit
- Thread starter scurvy-yard-dog
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
I'd like to be around $20k to $30k. I have a little wiggle room for an exceptional find.
Deano
Senior Member
A 70's vintage motorsailer would be an economical purchase if it surveys well. If you're on a budget, the survey is critical. You won't be the guy throwing money at every unknown that pops up, just at the few that do. There's a rule of thumb about adding 10% above the purchase price for the unknowns but that can be a quite low figure in the real world.
I'm your age and still self employed and will be for the foreseeable future. I have to stay in a marina most of the time to be able to get out there and work.
My costs are $440/mo. for dock fee plus kw for electric but I do have free cable, water and wifi. I also have two pools, a hot tub, mailing address, tiki bar and restaurant (which you probably wouldn't need) but for waterfront property it's reasonable to me. (and I don't have to mow grass) They also let me store my equipment here at no charge which is a real advantage.
Anyway, in a hot summer month, my total cost here is $625/month. We cook a lot on the Magna grill. Those little propane bottles add up. You could go with a larger tank and save a few but we haven't yet. Then again you need ground transport to get your 20 pound tank refilled. We keep a vehicle at the marina so we have transportation because sometimes we are far away on a job and have to fly back to get home and not spend all our time off driving.
In conclusion, find the best boat you can for the dollars your spending
AND GET A GOOD SURVEY.
I'm your age and still self employed and will be for the foreseeable future. I have to stay in a marina most of the time to be able to get out there and work.
My costs are $440/mo. for dock fee plus kw for electric but I do have free cable, water and wifi. I also have two pools, a hot tub, mailing address, tiki bar and restaurant (which you probably wouldn't need) but for waterfront property it's reasonable to me. (and I don't have to mow grass) They also let me store my equipment here at no charge which is a real advantage.
Anyway, in a hot summer month, my total cost here is $625/month. We cook a lot on the Magna grill. Those little propane bottles add up. You could go with a larger tank and save a few but we haven't yet. Then again you need ground transport to get your 20 pound tank refilled. We keep a vehicle at the marina so we have transportation because sometimes we are far away on a job and have to fly back to get home and not spend all our time off driving.
In conclusion, find the best boat you can for the dollars your spending
AND GET A GOOD SURVEY.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
Thanks. It appears that there are a lot of friendly, well rounded people on here, regardless of net worth. Hopefully I'll end up meeting a lot of them down the road.
No Mast
Guru
It's very easy to end up with an older boat that becomes a money pit. Be careful, and worst case sell it and then swap for a different one before you spend too much and can't. Don't get attached. In my experience a used boat that's been sitting will have more hidden issues than one which is routinely used. But in any event when you're closer to that purchase point there's much advice many people here can give about it.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
Hey Deano..... I just received a survey on an Endeavour 32' sloop that I liked. I told the guy that i wanted it more to see what it was all about and that a purchase would be dependent on the sale of my house, which isn't even listed yet but will meet with realtor next week.
He was kind enough to send me a copy along with additional info that wasn't on the listing. It's really a nice boat from what I can tell, which isn't a whole lot.
What marina are you in? I have a pickup that I'll keep around for ground transportation.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
I chuckled at your suggestion not to get attached. That won't be a problem. :so cool:
I'm prepared to have it hauled out and a current survey done. The boat I've been looking at just had one back in August of last year.
Deano
Senior Member
One caution, don't get the survey from the owner or broker. Get your own and do your own research as to who you wan't to use. This forum is a good source for that. Anyway, to answer your original question, I'm in Marina Cove in St. Pete.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
You both have awesome boats. My last boat was a 14' kayak.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
I used to live in South Beach and am now in Kansas City, Missouri. Don't ask...
I like south Florida but not so much the Miami area. The water is great but the people leave a lot to be desired. I think I'd be happy further up the coast and possibly on the Gulf side anywhere between Marco Island and Destin area. I've considered the Gulf Shores area of Alabama too. There are some pretty nice marinas there.
I was warned by my sailing friends, who are building a new home in Cape Coral, about getting my own survey. The one I received from the seller was more for my information on exactly what it all entailed.
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Deano
Senior Member
East coast of Florida is a bit pricey, the gulf can be better if you look around. Many marinas charge a surcharge for livaboards, this one we're in does not. If you want to be warm year round stay as far south as you can.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
This comment surprised me, Phil. Are you saying that most of the water in the Gulf is not deep enough for a 4 to 5 foot draft?
Shat man! You've got it made. Keep looking, with that much cash, you'll find one in good condition that fits your needs. Especially if you wait till this economic boom bursts... which should happen sooner rather than later... by mid 2017 is what I figure as the latest date; for the next swoop downward.
You've received a lot of good information so far. One thing I didn't see mentioned and feel is relevant.
There are a lot of former sailboat owners here. It's quite common for sailors to switch to power as they age. The reason is simply easier for them to handle, combined with more livable space in the same size. Health is a leading cause and I'm not suggesting slowly you're going to be falling apart, but often it's just one small think that leads to a different mind set or capability.
Sailboats are often considered less expensive to operate, but there's nothing cheap about replacing sails or other hardware and if you're motoring all the time then only a modest savings over power. If one has a true love for sailing then it's still probably the way to go but I think it takes that love for it.
There are a lot of former sailboat owners here. It's quite common for sailors to switch to power as they age. The reason is simply easier for them to handle, combined with more livable space in the same size. Health is a leading cause and I'm not suggesting slowly you're going to be falling apart, but often it's just one small think that leads to a different mind set or capability.
Sailboats are often considered less expensive to operate, but there's nothing cheap about replacing sails or other hardware and if you're motoring all the time then only a modest savings over power. If one has a true love for sailing then it's still probably the way to go but I think it takes that love for it.
No Mast
Guru
Delano and Scurvy--thanks!
Btw, as part of survey I would send the engine oil for analysis. It's a good way to see if there's any internal and expensive issues. It's not as helpful if the oil was just changed, be weary if it was. I'd also get or borrow an IR thermometer and check the engine out when running both cruise and at max. The top of the valve cover should be same temp across all cylinders. A spike in any could be expensive, but can't tell without pulling the top end off.
Btw, as part of survey I would send the engine oil for analysis. It's a good way to see if there's any internal and expensive issues. It's not as helpful if the oil was just changed, be weary if it was. I'd also get or borrow an IR thermometer and check the engine out when running both cruise and at max. The top of the valve cover should be same temp across all cylinders. A spike in any could be expensive, but can't tell without pulling the top end off.
ranger58sb
Guru
FWIW, relevant to the discussion about power or sail, I don't find fuel our largest cost factor. It's all the other stuff, and I can control fuel consumption (somewhat) by paying attention to speed.
So that in turn would mean, for us, the power/sail debate wouldn't be about cost of fuel, but rather about features that each style offers (or doesn't). I like many sailboats, especially some of the MS versions (traditional Nauticats come to mind)and some of the cats... but living in a cave (as with most of the monohulls) and tripping all over the rigging (shrouds, stays, winches, etc.) would drive me crazy. (Crazier?) All that pesky "heeling" on a monohull is also problematic for us...
And then we find -- if we want to go somewhere -- it's much easier to just do it, in a powerboat. Usually no tacking/gybing required, even at trawler speeds we can usually get there sooner than if we were under sail, etc.
But then another trade-off is noise underway <sigh>... Ah, well, it would be, if the winds were consistent around here. As it stands, many of the sailors here have to motor quite a lot anyway, except for maybe March-May and again in Oct/Nov.
-Chris
So that in turn would mean, for us, the power/sail debate wouldn't be about cost of fuel, but rather about features that each style offers (or doesn't). I like many sailboats, especially some of the MS versions (traditional Nauticats come to mind)and some of the cats... but living in a cave (as with most of the monohulls) and tripping all over the rigging (shrouds, stays, winches, etc.) would drive me crazy. (Crazier?) All that pesky "heeling" on a monohull is also problematic for us...
And then we find -- if we want to go somewhere -- it's much easier to just do it, in a powerboat. Usually no tacking/gybing required, even at trawler speeds we can usually get there sooner than if we were under sail, etc.
But then another trade-off is noise underway <sigh>... Ah, well, it would be, if the winds were consistent around here. As it stands, many of the sailors here have to motor quite a lot anyway, except for maybe March-May and again in Oct/Nov.
-Chris
syd
Here's a link to many South East U.S. marine sales I pulled out o' da hat fer ya. YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
855 boats (85 pages, 10 boats each) on YachtWorld...
30'to 45' / $20K to $50K / power and sail. Largest boats first, then size trickles down to the smaller ones. Scroll baby - Scroll!!
Good Luck!
Happy Boat-Search Daze!! - Art
Here's a link to many South East U.S. marine sales I pulled out o' da hat fer ya. YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
855 boats (85 pages, 10 boats each) on YachtWorld...
30'to 45' / $20K to $50K / power and sail. Largest boats first, then size trickles down to the smaller ones. Scroll baby - Scroll!!
Good Luck!
Happy Boat-Search Daze!! - Art
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Diesel Duck
Senior Member
How Not to Sell Your Boat!
After looking at many of the boats in the YW link provided by Art I'll be amazed if many of them sell at all. Why is it that the majority of them have the worst possible photos of their boats? Don't they want to sell them?
First impressions are everything when it comes to selling something, especially via an ad on the internet, so why people don't take the time to stage their photo shoots is baffling to me. Hell, many of them didn't even take the time to clean the mirrors in the heads or tidy up the galley or even straighten up the berth at all. Simply amazing!
After looking at many of the boats in the YW link provided by Art I'll be amazed if many of them sell at all. Why is it that the majority of them have the worst possible photos of their boats? Don't they want to sell them?
First impressions are everything when it comes to selling something, especially via an ad on the internet, so why people don't take the time to stage their photo shoots is baffling to me. Hell, many of them didn't even take the time to clean the mirrors in the heads or tidy up the galley or even straighten up the berth at all. Simply amazing!
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
Good point, BandB. I sort of figured that and now it's been confirmed. Enjoy your day.
Pack Mule
TF Site Team
- Joined
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Sailboats are great, but on most unless it's a big one the seating is just not comfortable .We bought our trawler and purchased some nice chairs to sit in rather than sitting on something . Big difference .
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
Thanks, Art. I hope to be on the water by fall..... if not sooner. Just in time for hurricane season.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
OP
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
syd
Here's a link to many South East U.S. marine sales I pulled out o' da hat fer ya. YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
855 boats (85 pages, 10 boats each) on YachtWorld...
30'to 45' / $20K to $50K / power and sail. Largest boats first, then size trickles down to the smaller ones. Scroll baby - Scroll!!
Good Luck!
Happy Boat-Search Daze!! - Art
This is really going to be helpful, Art. Part of the problem I'm finding when searching for boats is having grown up in the midwest, I don't know what makes of boats to search for that fit my needs. I've been looking at Gulfstars and Bayliners and like what I've seen. There are several of them in the 29' to 32' boats in the low $20k to mid $30k range that are not too big or too small for a single guy.
Is it really that bad?
It is to a trawler owner. It isn't to someone who has always been on sailboats. It's just a big difference. Narrow, whether monohull or one side of a cat, just isn't conducive to a spacious feeling.
Also design for speed in a sailboat doesn't make the most comfortable boat at anchor. Sailboats do vary. However, a narrow monohull is going to be a bit roly at anchor.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
I was thinking the same thing, Diesel Duck. Being a photographer by trade, I know the importance of showing quality photos to sell anything. That's all that people have to rely on in order to proceed in finding out more about the item (boat). It's almost as bad as someone trying to sell a vehicle on Craigslist with NO photos.
Maybe I can earn some extra dough shooting people's yachts that are for sale. When I lived in South Beach, I shot a lot of real estate there for Buy Owner. Same thing with the boats.... just on a smaller scale.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
Something I guess I should consider. Thanks, Marty.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
Thanks.
I've been looking closely at the Bayliners and I've noticed that their boats below 32' are gas engines and not diesel. Is there a reason for that?
Is it safe to assume that a boat with a single diesel will need less fuel to move the boat than a twin or is there a trade off in one working harder to move a boat as opposed to twins?
No Mast
Guru
every boat I've seen that has an option for single or twin, the twin burns more per hour but does get to the destination a bit faster. many like twins for the redundancy of the engine. Many don't because its twice the maintenance, more fuel, and generally the running gear on a twin is more exposed than that of a single.
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scurvy-yard-dog
Veteran Member
Regarding your post above about sending engine oil out for inspection, wouldn't a magnet do the same thing? I'm guessing you'd be looking for coolant/water in the oil (milky oil) or metal shavings.
Is it possible to run on one engine? I'm guessing it is and would be great in the case of one engine failing but is it advisable for fuel conservation?
