Midnight Re-boarding, can you? Alone

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SCOTTEDAVIS

SCOTTEDAVIS

Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
918
Location
US
Vessel Name
FIREFLY
Vessel Make
Pilgrim 40
While we discuss emergency exiting elsewhere how about emergency re-boarding.

Could you?

Here is the scene, middle of the night you get up to check the anchor (*pee over the side) and for what ever reason you fall overboard. You have the boat in the normal overnight condition that you always have it when overnight anchoring.


Can you get back in by yourself with no help?

How about....add any or all your choice.

1. Water temp is 59^F

2. Current is 2.1 kts

3. Waves or chop

4. You broke your wrist in the fall.



No help is available, no life jacket or harness attached.

Can you get back in the boat? How? Why not?

Discuss

* as Richard says not a good idea, but I bet we all have done it a time or two. I find it to be among the luxuries to do so on a nice night with a full moon, but I digress, sigh.

I will have a very hard time on my boat.
 
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You set some difficult handicaps: current, broken wrist, etc no telling if I'd make it. But, I have done what I can to improve the chances.
photo 1 the original ladder was out of reach from the water, worse, if the dinghy was on the davits it would block the ladder (a very nice one) from swinging down into the water, plus the ladder was held in place by a latch high on the transom.
photo 2 I removed the existing ladder and installed one (Windline 3 step) which telescopes and slides under the swim platform it is not difficult to deploy from the water, unsnap a strap, pull it out and it tilts down. I also installed a hand hold on top of the swim platform to make it easier to climb out. The ladder won't show in the picture but it is under the stbd side of the swim platform under the white PVC "handhold"
 

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WOW - So you want to make it easy, huh! - LOL

When aboard boat our 6' swim ladder at transom swim step is always available in either the down position or up position where simply a firm tug could bring it down. Knotted pull-uself-up thick knotted line is left in down position. 56 degree water saps energy quickly. Broken wrist is a real determinant for swimming or climbing aboard. Long as I made it to rear of boat, fighting the current with one hand and two feet, I'd find some way to climb back aboard. Some of my success might lie in the body weight carried at that time of life. I try to stay in a very fit 235 lbs... but some years, when no gym work was accomplished for a long time... I've been known to well exceed that number! - :facepalm: :D

Otherwise... Poppa Arthur, my favorite grand dad - died 1964, hope to see ya soon! :dance:
 

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SCOTTEDAVIS said:
While we discuss emergency exiting elsewhere how about emergency re-boarding.

Could you?

Here is the scene, middle of the night you get up to check the anchor (pee over the side) and for what ever reason you fall overboard. You have the boat in the normal overnight condition that you always have it when overnight anchoring.


Can you get back in by yourself with no help?

How about....

1. Water temp is 59^F

2. Current is 2.1 kts

3. Waves or chop

4. You broke your wrist in the fall.



No help is available, no life jacket or harness attached.

Can you get back in the boat? How? Why not?

Discuss



I will have a very hard time on my boat.
Click to expand...
First off, don't pee off the side of your boat - it's the number on cause of drowning deaths among male boaters.

For me - do have a boarding ladder off my swimstep that can be deployed easily by a swimmer in the water. Then the question is could I get to it? Well if I was at the bow and fell off, with 2.1kt of current, my boat would be facing into the current and so I'd drift down the side of the boat. That gives me about 10-15 seconds to regain my senses before drifting past the stern. Hopefully that would be enough time for me to swim in and grab the swim platform (with my unbroken wrist :)).

If there were bad conditions at night I would have my life jacket on.

Richard
 
Nice Steve, that would work well. A+

Boats with a dive platform have a huge advantage but as you show require some thought and tweaking.
 
Britannia said:
First off, don't pee off the side of your boat - it's the number on cause of drowning deaths among male boaters.

Richard
Click to expand...

Richard - That true... in recorded stats. Means I'm often a death defying Captain! How do pee-deaths get recorded as such? Taint no ability to determine what the fellow was a doing... less of course the wife was a watching!! :rofl:
 
Art said:
Richard - That true... in recorded stats. Means I'm often a death defying Captain! How do pee-deaths get recorded as such? Taint no ability to determine what the fellow was a doing... less of course the wife was a watching!! :rofl:
Click to expand...
Open zipper is the indicator, so I'm told. Though I don't believe everything I read!

Richard
 
Actually, there was a definitive posting in National Fisherman IIRC about 20 years ago. Almost every fisherman who has gone overboard was found with zipper down. I have seen many people peeing into a scupper or on deck for this reason. There is some truth to the 'peeing over the side' being a literal issue.
 
Maybe mermaids got to them first.
 
SCOTTEDAVIS said:
Can you get back in by yourself with no help?

How about....add any or all your choice.

1. Water temp is 59^F Yes

2. Current is 2.1 kts I'm a strong swimmer but I don't think I could swim into a 2.1 knot current. I'd be looking on how to get to shore.

3. Waves or chop Yes

4. You broke your wrist in the fall. Maybe? If not, I'd be screaming from being in so much pain, Lena or Morgan would wake up. :) We do have a folding swim platform ladder accessible from under the platform.

Click to expand...
 
I have to go with Steve on this one. One of the less advantaged features off a KK Manatee is getting back aboard. High bow, high side doors and high bulwarks make it more difficult to re-board than the average boat. We've gone to a lot of expense and effort to put together a system to facilitate the ease of re-boarding in such a situation. It would probably be safe to assume that the bow would be into the wind/current and that after the fall from the bow, one would tend to be directed along the side of the boat and aft. There, fenders on lines near the water will be at two points and since the beam of our boat is pretty consistent, it should be possible to grab a line with one hand, at least to give enough time to yell for help or figure out the next move. We installed a swim platform wide enough and with above-platform style tubing bent toward the outside of the transom, making it easy to move oneself from one fender to another on the side, then to the swim platform grab rail. We're having a custom ladder built that looks more like a dock ladder than a swim platform ladder. It extends to the water at about a 15 degree angle so climbing it will put the boarder in a forward leaning posture, as advised by Ted (OCdiver) on this forum. Steps will be wide and non-skid. One hand release and access might not be comfortable, but possible.

As an alternative, if one is not alone on the boat, the dinghy crane was set so that its radius will swing its load to either a side door entry or to the platform aft. Our life jackets are auto-inflate, off-shore type with harness attachments. We've agreed that we will both wear these jackets on trips out on the deck at night.

None of the boarding facilitation ideas above will trump the habit of simply wearing a harness as an on-deck rule, and clipping oneself to a security line running the length of the boat. If I can figure out a decent method of doing that, I would.
 
Me?

At 59^f my Floridian body will not touch the water but hover above it and reverse direction.

Ok the current is a bit much, not much time to get back in, but I would make great time on the way to my next adventure.

Waves and chop could be bad and may be what put me in the water, if so shame on me for being dumb.

Broken wrist and no way am I getting back in as it is I have no easy way into the boat and the stowed swim ladder is not accessible from the water. No swim platform would leave me grabbing the sides of the boat to get to the hawse type cleats for a handhold then hope to be able to swing my foot up to same and using upper body muscles hope to pull myself up and over the rail.

I need to find a better way or stop getting older.


anyone have any of these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale
 
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1 "reboarding device means a ladder, lifting harness or other device that does not include any part of the vessel’s propulsion unit and that assists a person to gain access to the vessel from the water. (dispositif de remontée à bord)"

Required by the Small Vessel Regulations to the Canada Shipping Act, for all vessels where the vertical height (distance a person in the water must climb from the surface of the water) is .5m or more.

Likely the same regulation governs in other jurisdictions. So if you don't have one, you need to get one.

2 The statistic applies to recovery of bodies. More are recovered with their fly down than not. This doesn't mean peeing over the side will kill you. It does mean that the old sailor's rule "one hand for the ship, one hand for yourself" is not followed enough. Be safe out there!
 
Koliver my boat was made in Canada 1987. New reg?
 
Scott
I can't tell from the consolidation I have referenced, as anything enacted prior to that date won't give me the originating date.
However, I have been doing safety inspections at our YC since about that date and have never been without those requirements.
 
SCOTTEDAVIS said:
Me?

At 59^f my Floridian body will not touch the water but hover above it and reverse direction.

Ok the current is a bit much, not much time to get back in, but I would make great time on the way to my next adventure.

Waves and chop could be bad and may be what put me in the water, if so shame on me for being dumb.

Broken wrist and no way am I getting back in as it is I have no easy way into the boat and the stowed swim ladder is not accessible from the water. No swim platform would leave me grabbing the sides of the boat to get to the hawse type cleats for a handhold then hope to be able to swing my foot up to same and using upper body muscles hope to pull myself up and over the rail.

I need to find a better way or stop getting older.


anyone have any of these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale
Click to expand...


I need to ... stop getting older... = 12 ga. Age ceases!
 
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Per many earlier discussions, neither I nor anyone else on the boat pees over the side or any other place other than a head.

Also, we don't get up and go out on deck in the middle of the night alone. We have a second "watch" person. If something made one of us feel the need to go check then we both get up and go.

Depending on the activity, we'd put on a flotation device.

As to the scenario given, 2.1 knot current isn't overwhelming. It's less than half the speed of swimming so manageable.

Now we could get back on the boat on the stern. The platform can be used initially just to calm down and get beyond any anxiety created and then the ladder used to get out of the water. Our ladder is easily accessed.
 
BandB said:
...

Also, we don't get up and go out on deck in the middle of the night alone. We have a second "watch" person. If something made one of us feel the need to go check then we both get up and go.

...
Click to expand...
As a single hander I don't have a choice in this one.

Richard
 
Good thread....

On my sailboat the boarding ladder on the stern hinged midway and the bottom pivoted up and was secured with a short piece of line with a slip knot in it. The end was reachable from the water. Dock lines crossed can complicate things.

I too wear my inflatable more and more. If I were to go on deck in the middle of the night in adverse conditions (a 2 knot current qualifies) I think I would slip it on.

Short Captain Oscar fireside story:

The previous sailboat was a Catalina 42. Summers it was in Rock Hall MD, winters in Fort Lauderdale. I did a total of three round trips, all but 100 of the 6000 miles outside, half of it solo.

And yes, when it was calm I peed off the stern. One hand on the back stay, legs against the top lifeline. Yes I was wearing an inflatable AND a harness tethered to the boat. Still, the autopilot would keep doing it's job and slapping on the side of the boat trying to undo the harness, hold on and work your way around to the boarding ladder at 4 or 5 knots would be a hand full.

The boat was a fixer upper and I did 90% in the first few months I owned it. One thing I hadn't done yet I took on after the first Florida trip, and that was replacing the rather grungy looking life lines. Unbeknownst to me the turnbuckle on Port side had lost it's split pin and was less than a turn from coming undone.....

No more peeing off the rail.
 
I. Pee into a bailing bucket, keeps the pee contained like me inside the boat.

Some things just can't be unseen. Like the body of a young lady found in the waters dockside where I live on board.Just before Xmas, but at least that family has closure

I have pulled alot of folk from the cold water. Non seemed to have the ability or want to scream for help in the short period of time they had to do so.

Please take a moment to at least think about this subject, not only if you are the one in the water. But to also be aware of folk in the waters that might need help.

Cold water kills fast.
 
Bad news...not many I know could swim against a 2.1 knot vcurrent with clothes on, broken wrist, hyperventiilating, probably disoriented till well past the boat.

Good news....not many places I anchor that have 2.1 knot currents....some but something to consider then.

Even once back to the swim platform....in wet clothes, broken wrist, exhausted from swimming against a 2.1 knot current if even possible....hypothermia is starting to drain you fast....how many could pull themselves up a less than perfect ladder?

That's a grim scenario if there is no help available....but no reason not to have the ladders and/or platform for self rescue...and some sort of mechanical lift device for another to assist...even better if it could be self assist.
 
psneeld said:
Bad news...not many I know could swim against a 2.1 knot vcurrent with clothes on, broken wrist, hyperventiilating, probably disoriented till well past the boat.
.
Click to expand...

The disoriented made me think that the real key to survival is not panicking. One can survive and can get to the boat, but if one panics that will not happen.

However, the more important key is having a setup and a system that doesn't require any special physical skill but is a simple, easy solution.
 
I know from large amounts of rescues, survival training, training up through water safety instructor instructor and several falls into the water myself......disorientation is not panic.

One is often fatal, the other just a result of an unintentional act....they can go from one to the other, they can even coexist, but one is not the other.

An unexpected fall will usually result in disorientation. Warm water, no pain and daylight let's you see through it quickly...add all those things and disorientation can be hard to regain.

Add that to the other parameters can be a game changer from the armchair evaluation so making it to the boat isn't a given.

Thus a good reason to do what you can to avoid this situation of parameters that I see as a probable no self recovery situation. Not many might wind up with all those parameters....but risk management should have you anning to minimize those hazards.
 
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Yes, I could make it back on, but only if I had the presence of mind to grab any of the (thankfully six) aft cleats as I came by and then pull out the ladder that telescopes out from under the swim step. One more justification for (most) power boats and not sail, unless they have sugar scoop transoms.

As long as we're talking about this though, I always assumed I'd be able to flop myself back into our dingy from the water (Zodiac Zoom 260). Last season just for fun we ran the dingy to a nearby swim beach, tied the mooring line to the swim area marker buoy, then jumped out for a swim. When we were ready to go back home we could not get back into that raft for anything. I always assumed I could tilt it up if I had to and just roll over the tube like a wet flopping halibut -- nope, I just could not get the height out of the water to clear that tube. We eventually had to tow-swim the raft to shore, step in, and then paddle our way back out. That experience made me buy a rope swim ladder for that dingy, although even then it's not an easy climb.
 
psneeld said:
I know from large amounts of rescues, survival training, training up through water safety instructor instructor and several falls into the water myself......disorientation is not panic.

One is often fatal, the other just a result of an unintentional act....they can go from one to the other, they can even coexist, but one is not the other.

An unexpected fall will usually result in disorientation. Warm water, no pain and daylight let's you see through it quickly...add all those things and disorientation can be hard to regain.

Add that to the other parameters can be a game changer from the armchair evaluation so making it to the boat isn't a given.

Thus a good reason to do what you can to avoid this situation of parameters that I see as a probable no self recovery situation. Not many might wind up with all those parameters....but risk management should have you anning to minimize those hazards.
Click to expand...

I agree you cannot depend on one being able to overcome those or even less difficult situations. Your plan should put minimum requirements on the man who is overboard and not depend on them being able to execute tasks they normally would seem able to do.

While I haven't seen directly what you have, I have seen accounts. I've read about those very close to the boat swimming instead toward a distant shore.
 
At 2.1 knots, if you dont grab something going by like a swim platform bracket or get your fingers into a through hull, you're not likely going to get back to the boat at all. Look for something you can get to like another boats anchor line.
 
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