Is it difficult to sell a wood Grand Banks?

Hello all.

I have been a lurker on trawlerforums for a while now dreaming of the day when I would have my own. Ive finally found a 1973 Grand Banks 32 which appears to be in great shape from the keel to the deck (professionally rebuilt motor with low hours) and good shape from the deck on up. Now that I am ready to pull the trigger I find I am getting cold feet because it is "almost impossible to sell a wood boat" (See the discussion here and remark by FF).

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/wood-hull-three-years-3178.html

Is this true? Should I consider my original purchase price, all my future hours of blood, sweat toil and tears, all work on the boat and expenses a complete loss? Will I be the last one to ever pay anything for this "woody". Am I the only one who love wood anymore?

I'd love to hear any opinions about the resale-ability of of nicely kept wood Grand Banks especially from anyone who is in a position to know or has had experience.

(I agree that its kind of crazy to think about reselling this thing before I even buy it but if there is no market for wood boats perhaps I should just pay more for a glass boat in hopes that it will maintain its value more -or at least not go to 0).

thanks for any opinions on the matter.

Welcome to the forum!

If you expect to buy any boat and recoup your investment to any degree you are mistaken. A boat is an expensive hole in the water that you dump money, time and sweat equity into and generally lose significant money on your investment when you sell it. Yes it will be tougher to sell a wood boat, especially one that is past 40 already. If you don't appreciate a wood boat for what it is and are considering it because of price, fiberglass is probably a better choice for you. How long you plan to own it may weigh more on your decision. If you plan to sell in a few years as this is just a step toward something else, than yes this is probably not the best choice. If you plan to own it for a long time, then the depreciation in dollars may actually be smaller than a fiberglass boat. As a percentage, what cost does this boat have compared to an equivalent fiberglass model?

Ted

Many boat yards don't remember how to haul, block or work on wood boats today. Unless you are a dedicated wood boat restorer don't buy one.
There is enough going wrong with a 40 YO boat without adding wood.

Welcome aboard!

Channel Islands? The ones near Santa Barbara? Anyway, Find out if the hull has ever been re-fastened, how, and who did it. You would need a survey by someone who knows wood boats. They're out there still, but fewer for sure, also sadly many marinas will no longer accept wood boats.

Good luck!

MP

A dedicated and experienced wood boat lover is the ideal candidate for this vessel. If you possess those traits and skills then sure, have a hard look. If your background lacks wooden BOAT repair skills I agree with Bayview.

BTW, I have found good wood boat owners enjoy 1960s and 70s Rock Music while their vessel is on the hard being re-planked. Hanging around these types running a screw gun is kinda fun.

FWIW - around here in the NE a bunch or marinas had been 'stuck' with wood boats that no one came back to claim.
As a result they require a form of 'guaranteed' removal payment if you are wintering on the hard at these marinas. Similarly their requirements for insurances for slip owners of wooden boat has become more strict.
So I would line up my ducks when it comes to boat insurance and marinas before I finalized a wooden boat purchase.


Good luck with the boat and hope this helps

Prolly not too hard if you sell it really really really cheap.

There's two attractive wood boats for sale on our float. A 32GB for $24 and a 37 Chris w twin yanmars for $19. The Chris was $29. They may both be good boats.

If I was in the market for a boat I would consider either of these but the'd have to pass a very through survey and be cheap .. like these. I'm betting the GB could be had for less. Here's the Chris.

Nostalgia costs $$$. Lots of $$$$

If you're starting out worrying about value, cost, have ANY expectation of recouping purchase price with a wooden hull then you probably can't afford what's coming down the road for normal maintenance.

JMHO.

I'm not too familiar with LA and the marine facilities in that area, but in the PNW there is still a market for quality wooden boats - and there are several small yards that specialize in servicing them.

In the PNW, though, there are also numerous covered moorages - and IMHO that's the only way to slip a wooden boat. Maybe you can keep up with the maintenance in LA where it doesn't rain as much, but an exposed wooden boat can deteriorate at an eye-popping rate.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that - simply because you are asking this question on an internet forum of strangers - you should not own a wooden boat.

There once was a beautiful Egg Harbor in a nearby slip. One day it took on water and had to be pumped then hauled. A few months later I drove by the yard where they had it blocked up and the hull boards looked like they were pealing off. I don't know anything about wood boats, but that picture stuck with me and I'm not sure that you could give me one now.

My boat may get blisters or a through-hull fitting my break, but at least I don't have to worry about that kind of damage.

One of my insurance clients has owned his 1953 42' Chris Craft since 1987. They live the boat, and keep it kn fresh water on Lake Union. Maintenance has been an ongoing ritual for them- they recently plunked down $30k to refastwn the entire bottom!

Walk carefully in this arena- ask the right questions, and weigh all the factors. Cheap can be very expensive....

I have recouped my investment on a plastic boat that I bought cheap, and put a lot of effort in to. No, I did not get paid for my time, but I had a very nice boat for five years and in the end got my money back. It was a Catalina. Between it, a Benetau or a Hunter you can do that. Think Chevy, Ford or Chrysler. If you buy an older one and take care of it you'll get most of your money back. Like everything else, if you buy a new one you lose 25% when you drive it off the lot, so to speak.

Soooo, boating can be done without losing too much money. If you buy a less popular model it gets harder. Buy it right, invest in the right items (you'll never get your money back for that hot tub but you MAY get half of an engine overhaul back) and take care of it so it shows well and the damage can be contained, especially if you can do some or all of the work yourself. You will never recoup running costs, dockage, insurance or maintenance.

It is a labor of love, but there are rewards. If you're on the hook sitting on the deck watching the sunset with the Admirals hand in yours, and a nice cocktail in the other you are reaping those rewards. But, for every one of those days there are three days of cleaning bilges, scraping bottoms and varnishing trim. And you have to keep up with the cash flow.

Now take all that, and add wood. As explained above it's getting less popular by the day. Marinas, insurers can be bothered less and less. There IS a small, almost cult like following of wooden boats. Read Wooden Boat magazine. There are yards, mostly in the NE and PNW that will work on them, and do a good job. Not cheap, even compared to the work on plastic boats. And there will be more work, a lot more. A plastic hull needs some wax, and some anti fouling on the bottom. Worst case the bottom needs to be taken down to fiberglass, some blisters dried and repaired, barrier coated and painted. (Some plastic boats get really bad blisters to the point of being a structural threat, but those can easily be avoided.) Wooden boats will need planks, caulking, REGULAR scraping and painting. At some point ALL the planks will need to be refastened with EXPENSIVE hardware (not available at Home Depot.) There WILL be leaks. And you better get after them QUICKLY or there WILL be rot.

As I said, there are enthusiasts that love old woodies and learn and share the skills to keep them afloat. It's more than a labor of love, it's a lifestyle.

If this is you, go for it. If not, stick with plastic. Bad enough as it is. And yes, I grew up on wooden boats for the first decade or so.

But to answer your question ;-) yes, woodies can be bought (and sold) for a fraction of what similar plastic tubs go for.

I have two suggestions if you buy a wood hull boat.....
1. Insure it well
2. Use strong dock lines. They'll keep it from going all the way under.

Wow. This is pretty bleak. I have seen so many disparate opinions on the matter. Is there truly NO market for wooden boats.

I understand that owning any boat is an expensive proposition but are they truly " almost impossible to sell" as the other thread indicates?

I believe the consensus is that there is a market, but a very small one. There is a reason most boats are now made of something other than wood. There is a reason that wooden boats are significantly cheaper. As someone mentioned earlier, if you need to ask a forum if it's a good idea to buy a wooden boat, you probably shouldn't buy a wooden boat. I don't mean that to be offensive, but I've owned several boats and been around many more for nearly 2 decades. I try to do as much maintenance as I can myself. I'm not an expert, but I've seen enough to know that I wouldn't have one. As another poster mentioned, there are enough things to go wrong on a fiberglass boat...I wouldn't want to add the potential of the thing that makes the boat float rotting out. That is very bad. Fiberglass boats can sink too, but generally not because the bottom rotted away.

mplangley,
Don't get too upset. These guys (mostly) don't know anything about wood boats and are just regurgitating what other plastic boat people say.

On the flip side if you were to talk to a wood boat nut their take would be a comlpete opposite of what you hear here.

Try to find a surveyer that specializes in wood but does it all. Don't let them know you're looking at a specific boat and find out what all the downsides of wood boat ownership is .. for each type of construction. I' offer to pay for his time.

Thanks manyboats - (and everyone else for that matter even though your dashing my dreams).

Is such a nice boat.

I was planning on negotiating the price today (asking 23k) but now my feet are cold.

mplangley--- If you want to know about wood boats and wood GBs in particular, this is the wrong forum to be talking to. Join the Grand Banks owners forum Grand Banks Owner's Resources and ask your questions there. There are a lot of participants on that forum with wood GBs, some of which were near-derelicts when the owners bought them to restore. You will get truly meaningful answers from people who have a lot of experience with wood GBs from owning them or in the case of the forum's founder Bob Lowe, owned a boatyard that specialized in the maintenance, repair, upgrading and restoration of GBs, both wood and glass. Search that forum's archives and you will find discussions on virtually any topic imaginable having to do with wood GBs.

mplangley said:

Is such a nice boat.

I was planning on negotiating the price today (asking 23k) but now my feet are cold.

Click to expand...

Well the photo looks pretty good!

Another aspect to consider is where you intend to moor it, and what activities they may allow or disallow. Particularly if you intend to do your own maintenance. Many marinas have restrictions on sanding, noise, et cetera - which means that you may end up having to pay someone else to do the maintenance that you planned to do yourself.

The boat in the photo looks well cared for, so hopefully there won't be any major restoration required - but keeping it in that condition will require regular work.

A wood boat in good shape can be a very good boat. There are maintenance issues though that have to be dealt with. For example I repaint my boat every year to keep it looking good. IF you are a reasonably skilled boat carpenter, then the wood work is pretty easy. On the resale side, you will be fighting an uphill battle because of the lack of knowledge of wood boats these days. That is particularly true with boats like the GB32 and GB36 where there are lots of glass boats of the same model. The result is that the woodies tend to sell for 1/4 to 1/2 or less what equivalent age/condition glass boats sell for. Where a wooden boat will hold its value is in an older classic (pre WWII). However, even with classic boats the time to sell them can be years.

It is easy to repair major damage on a wooden boat though with only basic wood working tools.

My comments are based on my ownership of a 1936 wooden boat.

Just noticed the price. If you only pay around $20K you really don't have much to lose. $20K is pretty much pocket change when it comes to boat ownership (as you will discover).

23k is like buying a new Toyota Corolla. If you can handle the other expenses, could be a good way to enjoy the water. Do your homework and money math, don't worry about foot temperature.

Captainhead??? I think is the right screen name owns a 42' GB woodie in your general area. I'd send him a pm and offer to treat him to lunch or dinner and talk wood boat maintenance with someone who's been doing it right and by himself for a VERY long time.

Good luck

I had a sailboat friend who had a beautiful wooden boat that was his pride and joy. One day a power boater ran down the St. Johns river and waked the marina where his boat was kept. It sank with 15 minutes to the bottom of the river, still in her slip. It turned out that some bug had eaten the calk in the joints, and his boat was being waterproofed by it's beautiful paint job... Heartbroken, he said at least it didn't happen offshore.

One marina in Merritt Island requires the owner to post a $10k bond to haul a wood boat. they say that it is required since old boats get abandoned, and that's what it costs to dispose of the remains.

Just remember two famous sayings: "It's all about the price" and "There's an ass for every seat."

If the boat surveys in great condition (previous owned dumped all his hard earned money into it) and if you can buy it for a killer price, then how can you go wrong? Maintain it correctly and enjoy!

If you pay a low price and maintain it then it certainly can't depreciate any further.

But if are thinking about bringing it permanently to Florida or the Carib, then you might want to re-consider.

For the record I own a 1973 wooden 32' GB. If I wanted to hose it off and go then a plastic boat would be fine. I don't.

Boating is an interactive experience, working on Ebbtide, being proud of how she looks and being part of the community is all part of that.

As for all the BS about insurance, yards and maintenance...if you don't live in that world you don't have a clue. These boats are insured, enjoyed and maintained every day around the world.

If that boat talks to you, passes a thorough survey and meets your budget then make an offer and get busy enjoying life.

If you ever get up this way look me up and I will show you what it's all about.

Bob

Here in Fl its hard to give a wooden boat away.

The Canadians up on the lakes are great fans of wood , as well as gasoline as fuel.

With a limited season the boats are shed stored , so are exposed to the elements far less.

With 100% constant care wood is just fine , but the wood boat then becomes the hobby , not boat living or cruising.

Maine also has areas where wood is accepted .

Not too many folks prefer wood maint to cruising so the market is limited , even for Gold Plated boats.

The wood exception is tiny runabouts (Gar Wood style ) in pristine condition and of course the

Trumphy House Boats , the corperate folks have to be seen in, which are fabulous to be aboard.

FF wrote;
"With 100% constant care wood is just fine , but the wood boat then becomes the hobby , not boat living or cruising."

Don't be ridiculous.
Wood boat owners spend more time on maintenance. Probably more than a little bit but probably not much more than that. But something never considered here is that skippers in the 50's knew a lot more about wood boat maintenance. In the 50's skippers did a lot of boating including trips to Alaska from Puget Sound. They spent most of their summer enjoying their boats so your implication that they spent all their time sanding and painting is .... ridiculous.

manyboats said:

Wood boat owners spend more time on maintenance. Probably more than a little bit but probably not much more than that. But something never considered here is that skippers in the 50's knew a lot more about wood boat maintenance. In the 50's skippers did a lot of boating including trips to Alaska from Puget Sound. They spent most of their summer enjoying their boats so your implication that they spent all their time sanding and painting is .... ridiculous.

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Well...one other factor is that the wooden boat world has gone in two directions: the very visible "fine" one with varnish, brass, shows, and so on. And that is clearly a maintenance-intensive route. But there are also a lot of painted wooden cruisers. Some ex work boats. Some production. Some "custom". This is a world in which the boat's value can hover in the positive range but immediately turn negative and become a net liability. The drive to insure all boats in marinas has added to the pressure, and these are the boats to truly stay away from. "Free like a (toxic) puppy" comes to mind.

Finally, some times boats in the "fine" category fall into disrepair and end up in the lower strata. Getting them back up requires money and - often - lack of sound judgement.


Keith

We are looking at a wood boat now,but only if we can sell our present boat. We're not afraid of it but our fear is that something will happen to me before I get a chance to sell it or give it away and Joy will be stuck with the burden of getting rid of it .We have been downsizing some latley (getting rid of stuff we don't use or need) and this wood boat for us is not inline with this way of thinking, come to think of it I probably wasn't thinking straight when I bought any of my boats ,they all needed a bunch of work but we sure do and did love them . If you love it enough to buy it someone else will also. It might take a while and you will probably loose some money if not all.
Being able to take the boat out and enjoy it while you're keeping up with it was a big deal for us . Good luck with your decision .

"They spent most of their summer enjoying their boats so your implication that they spent all their time sanding and painting is .... ridiculous".

Take a good look at your 50 & 60 era Yachting mags.

Most boats were wood ,( a few steel) built to an owners specification.

Most at about 55-60+ had a cabin for a "man" the gent that lived aboard and did the endless maint.

As A kid on City Island NYC there were half a dozen yards doing new builds , Minnefords , Consolidated and others .

I got to meet a few folks whose total job was maint of the owners vessel.

Only a few could captain the vessel , but the boats sure looked as if they should be in a bottle , far better than the big charter boats that rent in the Carib.

Believe me , if you had a 60 ft Trumhpy , you purchased supplys , but never cleaned (or used) a varnish or paint brush, ever.