Lectrasan Conundrum

ksanders said:

Steve, can you provide a link?

The reason is that I researched this and the EPA governs NDZ's and their web site shows all the current NDZ's in California.

There is a statewide NDZ but is is only for ships 300 tons and larger.

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ABCs of California Boating Law prohibits treated discharge in any marina , yacht harbor , freshwater lake or impondment where acess to other facilities are available of treated waste. So all marinas are required to provide toilets, yacht harbors with mooring as well, all fresh water reservoirs have public restrooms available, many on the floats. So rivers and some anchorages are open but not many.

Scary said:

ABCs of California Boating Law prohibits treated discharge in any marina , yacht harbor , freshwater lake or impondment where acess to other facilities are available of treated waste. So all marinas are required to provide toilets, yacht harbors with mooring as well, all fresh water reservoirs have public restrooms available, many on the floats. So rivers and some anchorages are open but not many.

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Thanks Steve

I downloaded and read the section regarding sewage on page 52 and it seems reasonable. It says that you cannot discharge treated sewage if you are tied to a warf, or dock that has restrooms available. I have no challenge with that, as discharge of even treated sewage is in violation of most marinas moorage agreement.

State law also prohibits dumping any human waste (treated or untreated) in a marina, yacht harbor, fresh water lake, or fresh
water impoundment from any vessel tied to any dock, slip or wharf that has
toilet facilities available for the use of people on the vessel

There's nothing in that to prohibit the discharge of treated waste in ANY harbor or anchorage...only in marinas, so-called "yacht harbors" (however those may differ from marinas) and fresh water "impoundments"/lakes, which is no different from federal law.

...as discharge of even treated sewage is in violation of most marinas moorage agreement.

Which only serves to show how few marina operators know that the discharge from a Type I is actually MUCH cleaner than the water in ANY marina.

Show total landlubber mentality.

Ask them to walk through their neighborhood in the middle of the cold, rainy night to go to the bathroom.

Till marinas provide some kind of pumpout the can be done in your slip....that law holds little weight for me while the town (like Monteal) is doing far less to keep the water clean. Most boatowners want the water cleaner than the landlubbers anyhow and would be happy to contribute to installing proper pumpout options if it made a difference.

Maybe California has a clue...but too much of the rest of the world sure doesnt.

"Maybe California has a clue" Last one out turn the light out !

The conundrum just got way worse.

We decided, after reading all the above, that we should ditch the old unit and if we decide we want treatment, go with a new one. I asked a friend who is doing a low-budget refit on a recently purchased old trawler if he would like to have it since he is very handy and can overhaul it in his garage. He said he would come out and take a look. He did while I was deep in the complex installation of our rebuilt bowsprit and windlass. I went below for a tool and he was already taking it out of the boat. He had all the electronics and the salt unit removed. The next time I was able to go down and pay attention, he was realizing that it was full and he couldn't disconnect any hose without dumping sewage into the bilge.

What to do now? Is there any way to evacuate this thing without a bucket brigade and a boat that smells for days?

We are currently using the holding tank. Our system is set up with a "Y" valve to the tank and to the Lectrasan. The head is an electric macerator, fresh water flush, and above the waterline. There is a vented loop in the line from the Lectrasan to the discharge seacock as the unit is below the waterline in the engine room.

Since the contents of the Lectrasan are presumably treated and we will be in a place where we can discharge on the way to the pump out at a different marina, is there anyway to hot wire the Lectrason enough to empty the hoses and the unit sufficiently to remove it without making me very unpopular with the crew?

If we just turn the "Y" valve to the Lectrasan and run the head, will it push enough fresh water through the unit to get it reasonably clean for removal?

Maybe yes may be no...that's how it is supposed to work. The unit does not pump...it will free flow through just by flushing if not clogged in any way.

If not add some bleach and dump it.

Or better like I learned a long time ago...I use my older bucket buddy shop vac ( the kind at the big box stores where you just buy the head) with an old 5 gallon bucket that is used for only head and bilge water. I put a few ounces of bleach in first and suck away. Whether clogged toilet, hose, etc.

Then just dump in marina head.

"What to do now?"

Wait till MIDNIGHT.

Remove the cover and shpp vac the tank. Or Cut the waste hoses and plug them with tapered plugs, remove the tank to a flush toilet and drain the contents. It's only a couple of gallons.

Scary hit it, when replumbing your blackwater you will want to replace your hoses. Remove the hoses at the toilet, plug em and haul Lectroscans and hoses all at once. Much easier and more pleasant to deal with on the hard present and future than losing it in the bilge.

None of the above.

There is no pump in it, so no need for any power to it.

Put a heavy duty trash bag--two, if you think you need more protection--around it to catch the spill and disconnect the hoses. First, remove the hose from the fitting on the top of it and plug or otherwise seal (duct tape?) the fitting. If you can disconnect the incoming hose--the one that goes into the side of it--at the toilet or y-valve so you have a long enough piece to keep it elevated long enough to plug it, very little should be lost into the trash bag.

When I first installed my Electroscan years ago I would have trouble with either the check valve sticking or the float valve allowing overflow. I was usually purchasing the cheapest salt crystals I could find. This salt came out of the bag brownish and there would be dirt in the salt tank which would stick in the check valve and float valve. I switched to Morton Salt Crystals and ever since I have had no problems with those valves. The Morton is pure white and my tank never shows residue. With regular acid cleaning I have had trouble free use for 8 years.

HeadMistress said:

None of the above.

There is no pump in it, so no need for any power to it.

Put a heavy duty trash bag--two, if you think you need more protection--around it to catch the spill and disconnect the hoses. First, remove the hose from the fitting on the top of it and plug or otherwise seal (duct tape?) the fitting. If you can disconnect the incoming hose--the one that goes into the side of it--at the toilet or y-valve so you have a long enough piece to keep it elevated long enough to plug it, very little should be lost into the trash bag.

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Good plan Peggy. Please look this over and tell me what you think.


Ahead Sanitation Systems: Marine Sanitation Devices, Sanitation Systems, MSD Type II, Holding Tanks, Marine Toilets,

They did not publish prices but to a novice it looks pretty good. Thanks for being here.

Thanks Peggie (and others), I did as you suggested and it's now sitting on the dock. After some spraying of the bilge with bathroom cleaner and a lot of hosing, the aux machinery space smells better than it ever did. The length of permeated hoses (replacement about 50 items down the To Do list) is 20% of what it was before. The PO also had mounted the unit on a piece of regular lumber which had been soaking up stuff for years. Boy, did that reek when I carried it up to the dumpster!

Roger, buy a gallon of PureAyre--the "household" or "pet" version will work just fine and are available from Amazon for a lot lower price than "marine"--and a pump garden spray jug. After you've thoroughly cleaned all the smelly areas (do NOT use bleach!) and they're at least 90% dry, spray a light coating of it on EVERY surface, nook and cranny. DO NOT RINSE...let it dry for at least 24 hours with all hatches and lockers open, preferably with fans on too. If you still have any odor anywhere you missed a spot. I tripped over PureAyre at a boat show in Seattle about 10 years ago...it's the only thing I've found that will eliminate any odor, even smoke or diesel once the source of the odor is gone.

Mule...I've known Booboo Thibideau for more than 20 years...he used to bring the "AHead" tank to the International Houseboat Show in Louisville KY full of margaritas. My booth was two down from his.

It's a pretty good system, actually, but it's a Type II, which you don't need unless your boat is over 65' LOA....under 66' can use Type I, which are a lot simpler systems and cost a lot less. His toilets are his private label versions of the Sanimarin--a knock-off of the Tecma from a French company with production facilities in Romania. I'm not sure who makes the rest of his product line. Methinks that a novice would be better off sticking with more widely distributed equipment that has more readily available help when you need it.

But as long as you have a link to his website, be sure to click on "links" and then "Booboo's Cajun Cookin'" His pickles and peppers are even better than Famous Dave's hot/sweet pickle chips...everything else is good too!

We love our Electrascan used it on the loop in many many areas, now we have changed out to fresh water heads with the salt injection and life is still great just less salt water smells, as they say a good head is important to all onboard ?

This is a help full thread. I am presently trying to resolve an issue with my electro scan unit. It is showing : error: mixer motor overload. The owners manual is not user friendly, in my opinion.

This discussion has provided me with a better understanding of the system and its operation.

Thanks everyone, especially Peggy. I appreciate this information. Any suggestions on what's next will be appreciated.

John

I found Raritan's tech support a big help when deciding whether to replace our LectraSan. You might want to give them a call.

Sortie said:

This is a help full thread. I am presently trying to resolve an issue with my electro scan unit. It is showing : error: mixer motor overload. The owners manual is not user friendly, in my opinion.

This discussion has provided me with a better understanding of the system and its operation.

Thanks everyone, especially Peggy. I appreciate this information. Any suggestions on what's next will be appreciated.

John

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Did you find the fault in the manual OK?

Check the problems as directed?

Sortie said:

This is a help full thread. I am presently trying to resolve an issue with my electro scan unit. It is showing : error: mixer motor overload. The owners manual is not user friendly, in my opinion.



John

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That means that the mixer motor is drawing too much current.

either...

Non disolving TP
Some foreign material caught
Need to eat more fiber in your diet
Bad mixer motor

Found fault in manual results of following procedures are to replace control. My conclusion is a stuck mixer, have not used system for two + years, nor have I cleaned it. That's my next step. ?
John

Spend money

I have replaced several mixer motors due to corrosion. Each time it required both motors and a tank top. Some of us have bought extended warranties through WM because of the high failure rate. We seem to get about 4 years out of them with salt injection.

Scary said:

I have replaced several mixer motors due to corrosion. Each time it required both motors and a tank top. Some of us have bought extended warranties through WM because of the high failure rate. We seem to get about 4 years out of them with salt injection.

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I am guessing a whole new tank top because you couldn't separate the motors out? ....and even if one was working the other took the composite use down?

Thats correct

psneeld said:

I am guessing a whole new tank top because you couldn't separate the motors out? ....and even if one was working the other took the composite use down?

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The aluminum base of the motors corrode so badly they freeze the shaft on the mixer motor.

Scary said:

The aluminum base of the motors corrode so badly they freeze the shaft on the mixer motor.

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Just wondering....haven't had one apart yet....can you cut the shaft of the motors and still pull them off separately?

Usually both need replacing

I think you can replace each , I'll look in the yard , I can't rember, but I have a couple laying around, I'll check.

Agree.. California 2010 California Code Harbors and Navigation Code Chapter 6. Vessel Sanitation HARBORS AND NAVIGATION CODE SECTION 775-786, (a) The Legislature hereby finds and declares all of the following: (1) Marine sanitation devices should be regulated pursuant to uniform standards and procedures, and California vessel owners should not be subject to any local or state regulation as to the type of marine sanitation devices installed on their vessels. And to top it off.. Section 781. The (California State) Attorney's General, at the request of the department, the state board, any regional board, or any aggrieved person, shall petition the superior court for injunctive relief, as may be appropriate, to secure compliance with this chapter.

So, not only can local government NOT prescribe the type of MSD used onboard (Type 1,2 or 3 - and not within a NDZ) but under California law, an aggrieved boater (harassed by local officials) has the right to petition the California Attorney's General office to fight the harassment on their behalf..!