Needed: Krogen Manatee School

My husband and I are shopping for a trawler to do the Great Loop. We've looked at and climbed aboard many models and think that the Kadey Krogen Manatee 36 would best suit our needs. I was excited when I saw a web page for Southwest Florida Yachts that showed a Manatee for charter. We live in southwest Florida, so it was perfect. I contacted them to see if we could charter it with a captain for a few days of trawler school. We're absolute novices, so I wanted to try a Manatee on the water and extend our knowledge before making a purchase. Unfortunately, SW FL Yachts no longer has the Manatee. They have a larger Krogen but the experience wouldn't be the same.

Does anyone know how we can get some on-water training and experience on a Krogen Manatee? We are willing to pay for it, if we could find a trawler school with a Manatee. Or, maybe someone who owns a Manatee would be willing to hire out themselves and their boat.

I know we can hire a trainer to come aboard our boat once we purchase it, but we'd like to get some experience before we buy a boat, especially since it appears any boat we buy will be far from our home. Thanks for any suggestions.

Sue & Rich Freeman, Englewood FL
currently boatless

Sue Freeman said:

My husband and I are shopping for a trawler to do the Great Loop. We've looked at and climbed aboard many models and think that the Kadey Krogen Manatee 36 would best suit our needs. I was excited when I saw a web page for Southwest Florida Yachts that showed a Manatee for charter. We live in southwest Florida, so it was perfect. I contacted them to see if we could charter it with a captain for a few days of trawler school. We're absolute novices, so I wanted to try a Manatee on the water and extend our knowledge before making a purchase. Unfortunately, SW FL Yachts no longer has the Manatee. They have a larger Krogen but the experience wouldn't be the same.

Does anyone know how we can get some on-water training and experience on a Krogen Manatee? We are willing to pay for it, if we could find a trawler school with a Manatee. Or, maybe someone who owns a Manatee would be willing to hire out themselves and their boat.

I know we can hire a trainer to come aboard our boat once we purchase it, but we'd like to get some experience before we buy a boat, especially since it appears any boat we buy will be far from our home. Thanks for any suggestions.

Sue & Rich Freeman, Englewood FL
currently boatless

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True...after some experience on one and seeing and listening to others...maybe even the Manatee will not be the boat for you...good if you can find out before purchasing one.

Is there a Manatee owners group you can contact with your request to experience one in person?

In a like manner, is there any sort of Loop forum, a group who could perhaps offer advice on what the attirbutes of a good Loop boat should be? Obviously you can do the Loop in just about anything from a 12' tin skiff up. But perhaps there are features that make a boat more suited for the Loop than if it didn't have these features.

As psneeld said, it would be preferable to find all this out before you started your boat search than learn it through disappoinment after the sale.

America's Great Loop Cruisers' AssociationTM

https://greatlooptwo.bondwaresite.com/index.php

HI Psneeld & Marin,
Thanks for your comments. We already belong to the AGLCA, and MTOA, and others have pointed us toward the Krogen Cruisers group. So far though, no options have surfaced for cruising on a Manatee on the water.

I don’t understand the need for actual experience on a Manatee before you decided to buy as part of the buying with most boats is a trail and also the final final Sea Trail. By the time you get to the Sea Trial you should know if the Manatee is for you. If you are NOT a serious pre approved buyer most brokers/sellers will not take you out. The concern is there are to many tire kicker/lookers to spend the time and funds on non serious buyers.

Our neighbor have their boat for sale and he will not take them out unless they can prove/show they are serious buyers. I would not take just anybody out on the Eagle, on their say so. Show me the cash/finance.

Sue Freeman said:

HI Psneeld & Marin,
Thanks for your comments. We already belong to the AGLCA, and MTOA, and others have pointed us toward the Krogen Cruisers group. So far though, no options have surfaced for cruising on a Manatee on the water.

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If you can't get aboard one...fnd the right person and they can pretty much talk you through a virtual cruise.

The last two boats I have lived aboard, I had no interest in sea trialing them prior to purchase because I had a good idea on how they rode and handled AND those attributes were actally secondary to many other features. Many boaters would say I'm foolish, stupid, etc..etc...to that I would say, when they get to where my mind is..then tell me those things.

Someone who has lived aboard (or cruised extensively) can pretty well describe what it's like using a galley underway and whether you can live with that much counter space or not. They can tell you just how comfortable it is sitting and enjoying a boring leg of the trip while not at the helm....etc...etc..

Now none of that is to say you will react the same or really understand what is being said. But if they are articulate and have cruised with enough others to see multiple personalities underway...they should spin a good yarn for you and with your eyes closed you can see yourself in whatever boat you know the layout of.

Good luck!

Sue--- In your first post you wrote "currently boatless." I take this to mean that you have had boats in the past, but not diesel cruisers like you are interested in now.

If this is the case then you already know what being on a boat is basically like, as opposed to the "hi, we've been dreaming of getting a boat for years and have finally decided to do it" folks.

But I personally think that getting some hands-on experience with a boat you're interested in is a good idea unless, like some people on the forum, you have had many years of hands-on experience with a variety of boats.

I'd done a lot of boating in Hawaii (on other people's boats) and after moving to this area and getting married we bought a small fishing boat that we used on the Sound for years (and still do). But the whole diesel cruiser thing was new to us so when we decided in the late 90s to explore the notion of getting one it was suggested that we charter one for a week to see if we even liked the experience. We were pretty sure we would, but chartering a GB36 was great introduction to what cruising in this area is all about. And it confirmed that this basic type of boat was what we'd like to have.

And while Grand Banks were not even on our list of cruising boats we liked, this experience plus the fact that older GBs are way cheap, steered us to getting one even though it's not our favorite design.

But I'm a big proponent of drive before you buy. The sea trial is not, in my opinion, when you should be trying to determine if you really like the boat and would be happy cruising on it. You're just trying to determine if everything works plus the seller or selling broker will be wanting to get the trial over with as quickly as possible. Plus by the time you are at the sea trial stage you will have had to commit to buying the boat provided that it met the requirements you set forth with the seller or broker or both at the outset.

So I think your desired plan of either chartering a Manatee if possible or at least going out on one to simply see what it's like is a good one. Coupled with psneeld's suggestion of talking to as many Manatee owners and Loop cruisers as you can find, I think that's the smartest way to determine if a particular type of boat is right for you or not.

The time to find out that you've spent a bunch of money on something that turns out to be not quite right for you is before you commit to spending the bunch of money.

Capt John's cruising America's Great Loop

Great Loop boat requirements

Hi benTogo,
Thank you for pointing me to Captain John's web pages (Great Loop boat requirements). I had read some Looping boat requirements but his perspective adds a new dimension & is more suited to my frugal inclinations. You may have saved me from drifting into a boat choice I would have regretted. Thank you.

Sue Freeman said:

Hi benTogo,
Thank you for pointing me to Captain John's web pages (Great Loop boat requirements). I had read some Looping boat requirements but his perspective adds a new dimension & is more suited to my frugal inclinations. You may have saved me from drifting into a boat choice I would have regretted. Thank you.

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You're welcome.Happy I could help.His website helped me realize I didn't need a cruise ship to do the Great Loop. Now I am planning to build a more reasonable boat that I can trailer and use here at home.

Sue Freeman said:

Hi benTogo,
Thank you for pointing me to Captain John's web pages (Great Loop boat requirements). I had read some Looping boat requirements but his perspective adds a new dimension & is more suited to my frugal inclinations. You may have saved me from drifting into a boat choice I would have regretted. Thank you.

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While that site is great for hard data...he does have some info that is a bit off the mark...like his fuel consumptions and speeds. I bought a trawler that I hope gets around 4 NMPG at 6-7 knots...I think many do or are very close....but he is correct that some sailboats would easily motor between 5-10 knots and only burn around a gallon per hour (even less).

A 40 footer is no harder to handle than a 36 and unless you are paying for something per foor like dockage or repairs...the costs are similar and the extra room is really nice. While the boat may cost more a bit up front...it may be worth it when you find things like you can fit a washer/dryer or a freezer that saves money in the long run...(just an example or two and even they can be argued if one wants).

Even I enjoy camping every once and awhile...but I'm not sure I would want to do it for the whole loop (a year or more). I agree minimalist is better than not at all....but I would suggest you look long and hard at what makes life pleasant in it's journey...on a boat, even 50+ footers space is a premium....so be careful what yoou are willing to give up....even small conveniences that can become sore points after months.

psneeld said:

While that site is great for hard data...he does have some info that is a bit off the mark...like his fuel consumptions and speeds. I bought a trawler that I hope gets around 4 NMPG at 6-7 knots...I think many do or are very close....but he is correct that some sailboats would easily motor between 5-10 knots and only burn around a gallon per hour (even less).I agree with you.Most sailboats that can get those numbers are heavy and have a deep draft of around four to five feet.

A 40 footer is no harder to handle than a 36 and unless you are paying for something per foor like dockage or repairs...the costs are similar and the extra room is really nice. While the boat may cost more a bit up front...it may be worth it when you find things like you can fit a washer/dryer or a freezer that saves money in the long run...(just an example or two and even they can be argued if one wants).I agree here also.You could go wider(more beam) with less length.What's the saying,"adding one foot of beam is like adding four foot in length".I think that's it.

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There are several Manatees in south Florida and the owners are known to be welcoming to others interested in them. I suggest you post a message on the Krogen forum at the link below to locate some volunteers.

Our Mango Mama is in Crystal River. I don't know about an extended cruise but you would be welcome to stop by for a visit and harbor tour on her. Click my name to send a private message.
Krogen Cruisers Forums

The minimalist bent and frugality is what appeals to me about Captain John's blog. My husband and I spent 6 months thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail, living in a pup tent, so we're used to being minimalists.
Our ideal boat would be an inexpensive 34-35 foot, single screw, diesel, bow thruster, full displacement trawler with one stateroom, a covered cockpit, an isinglass enclosed pilot house, older but well maintained, little exterior teak, outfitted and ready for long trips (i.e. generator and inverter) with many days spent swinging on the hook, and in Florida. Am I hallucinating? Know any boats that fit that description?

Sue Freeman said:

The minimalist bent and frugality is what appeals to me about Captain John's blog. My husband and I spent 6 months thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail, living in a pup tent, so we're used to being minimalists.
Our ideal boat would be an inexpensive 34-35 foot, single screw, diesel, bow thruster, full displacement trawler with one stateroom, a covered cockpit, an isinglass enclosed pilot house, older but well maintained, little exterior teak, outfitted and ready for long trips (i.e. generator and inverter) with many days spent swinging on the hook, and in Florida. Am I hallucinating? Know any boats that fit that description?

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Bow thrusters, generators and inverters are a step up from the minamalist point of view so now I'm confused????

Run an underpowered lobsteryacht at displacement speeds and that's the closest thing I have in mind that fit's your description till you jump a few more feet.

Well, a Willard comes to mind as something that might include your requirements.. Here are a couple of photos I just grabbed off the web. According to the text with the photos the first shot is 36 feet, not sure of the middle shot but I think it's 30 feet, and the last one is 40 feet.

Hey Sue....Sorry to not have seen your thread until now. I'm in Key Biscayne with my Manatee and if you and I happen to be in the same area at the same time, I'd be happy to give you the tour. I'm busy at work on this boat and will be up the coast with it for a while, but the guys at Krogen typically have a couple of Manatees in Stuart if you can make the trip. There's at least one two stateroom and one single stateroom unit in the area and another one down here in Miami.

I agree with Marin, that Willard is another very good choice of small cruising boat. It was second on my short list when I bought the Manatee. Join the Krogen Cruiser site and learn everything you can about the boat before you jump. Send me a private message if you are coming this way.

Best of luck with your search.

Sue, I know this is an older tread, but it seems pertinent to my current situation.

Hi benTogo,
Thank you for pointing me to Captain John's web pages (Great Loop boat requirements). I had read some Looping boat requirements but his perspective adds a new dimension & is more suited to my frugal inclinations. You may have saved me from drifting into a boat choice I would have regretted. Thank you.

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Can you explain why you went with a 36 GB instead of the Manatee? I'm looking at a Manatee myself. If not publicly, you could message me. Thanks!

River Rat, a pm to Sue will probably smoke her out of her hole. She and her hubby are enjoying the loop on their GB 36 currently and have a blog she maintains but I do not have the link handy.

Craig, Thanks! I'll do that.

Sue Freeman said:

The minimalist bent and frugality is what appeals to me about Captain John's blog. My husband and I spent 6 months thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail, living in a pup tent, so we're used to being minimalists.
Our ideal boat would be an inexpensive 34-35 foot, single screw, diesel, bow thruster, full displacement trawler with one stateroom, a covered cockpit, an isinglass enclosed pilot house, older but well maintained, little exterior teak, outfitted and ready for long trips (i.e. generator and inverter) with many days spent swinging on the hook, and in Florida. Am I hallucinating? Know any boats that fit that description?

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Sounds like a 34' Marine Trader. Everything you need and nothing you don't.