Mystery Oil

Any benefit to adding Mystery Oil to fuel for the Ford Lehman 120?

Bob Smith told everyone at the spring GB Rendezvous that 1 quart per 100 gal will make for a happy Lehman.

Zero.

In fact you could say it has a potential negative effect.


"17)Marvel Mystery Oil Gas, oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems) HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel. 320:1 ratio 10.4 oz/tank $3.22/tank"

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76...ts.html#/forumsite/20625/topics/177728?page=1

I see you stated that engines 2007 and later could become compromised. How about engines before this date?

I didn't state anything. I was quoting. And based on the results of the quoted test, I'd say MMO is of no benefit to any diesel engine.

But people can waste their money on it if it makes them feel better.

I think quoting is stating Bill .. you just don't have to stand behind it like all the other stuff we say on TF.

Oil in the fuel sounds like a good thing but I'm convinced it's not needed in any way and possibly could be harmful .. probably not likely though. Other than Stabil and BioBore no other additives are needed. I think Bob Smith is a mechanic by trade and is a very helpful guy but I've heard many mechanics recomend all kinds of fluids for engines since I was a teen (in the 50's). Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not .. mostly the latter. Bob Smith has near deity status in some corners of this forum but on fuel additives I think he's showing his real feathers. Everything else I would/could say about the man is very positive.

I always have and always will use Castrol mineral 2 stroke oil @200:1 in my diesel 4x4 Pajero

I'd rely on what your engine manufacturer says. Did I overlook J. Deere saying I should add oil to the diesel fuel? (Ordinary diesel fuel seems oily to me.)

If Bob Smith, who was VP of Lehman and wrote the Intro to the Lehman Owners Engine and Parts book, recommends the product, for engines he produced and still supports, his implicit view the product is good needs to be given some credence. That said, I`ve never heard of the product and my engines seem to survive well without it.

manyboats said:

I think quoting is stating Bill ..

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I beg to disagree. But I do believe the results of the study.

gaston said:

I always have and always will use Castrol mineral 2 stroke oil @200:1 in my diesel 4x4 Pajero

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I agree if one can't resist the temptation to "help" their fuel w a lubricant two stroke oil should be far better than most or all other oils.

But again none of the fuel oils availible to us need extra oil. Like Mark says .. read the manual or even call the manufacturer and speak to an engineer. That can be done.

Come to think of it if I added lube oil to my diesel fuel I'd consider a synthetic motorcycle racing lubricant called "Bell Ray MC1+". But I would call the maker of that product (very tech minded) about using it. Depending on what they say I would forget about it or do more research. But the bottom line is what is there to be gained. And whatever it may be I don't think I could significantly benefit from it as my engine does everything I would want it to do as it is. Even if it could double the life of my engine. Why would I want that? I can't even come close to wearing it out as it is. So what would be the point? Why take chances? Too much to loose and definitely too little to gain.

manyboats said:

I agree if one can't resist the temptation to "help" their fuel w a lubricant two stroke oil should be far better than most or all other oils.

But again none of the fuel oils availible to us need extra oil. Like Mark says .. read the manual or even call the manufacturer and speak to an engineer. That can be done.

Come to think of it if I added lube oil to my diesel fuel I'd consider a synthetic motorcycle racing lubricant called "Bell Ray MC1+". But I would call the maker of that product (very tech minded) about using it. Depending on what they say I would forget about it or do more research. But the bottom line is what is there to be gained. And whatever it may be I don't think I could significantly benefit from it as my engine does everything I would want it to do as it is. Even if it could double the life of my engine. Why would I want that? I can't even come close to wearing it out as it is. So what would be the point? Why take chances? Too much to loose and definitely too little to gain.

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Note of warning never use a synthetic 2 stroke oil in diesel its been known to split and not mix as against mineral 2 stroke where it mixes 100%


2 Stroke in diesel is best used on "electric" common rail motors I think my Perkins would run on used Mc Donald chip cooking oil

I worked on a drilling rig in west Texas in the 80's. Those rigs were powered by big diesels. They ran 24/7 365. The mechanics swore by marvel mystery oil added to the fuel. I've used it in my lehmans for the last 7 years

I worked in a machine shop where several of the machinists wouldn't go out on a feild Job w/o MMO. Used it as a cutting oil.

gaston,
The Bell Ray is very high in heat resistance and of very high viscosity. The viscosity is so high it can't be run in auto 2stroke lube injector systems. 100% synthetic. And your right it quite likely won't mix w diesel. Dosn't mix extremely well w gasoline but once it's mixed it stays mixed. But I'm just making conversation here. I wouldn't use it or even consider using it unless a lot of investigation showed large benifits and I was planing on running my boat constantly for the next five years.

Again I don't think anybody's gaining anything by adding oil to diesel. And listening to mechanics swearing won't help.

Marvel Mystery Oil = magnetic algae killer.

MMO, Smells good too!

I can see that this is a very sensitive subject. But here is my 2 cents worth.
I'm not a engineer, or a diesel tech, but I have put all kinds of oils and after market additives in my construction equipment, motor homes and late (pre 08) model trucks. The engines were all designed to run on the older diesel that had higher amounts of Sulfur. I saw no adverse effects on any of the engines and was convinced that adding a Lube in the form of ATF, cheap 30 weight oil or even Lucas additives at the rate of 1 quart for every 100 gallons. And will continue to do so with diesels that are pre 08.
Many of my friends that are semi truck owner operators have done this to there older fleet. In fact a very good friend just ordered a new truck without driveline and is installing an older engine to be installed upon delivery, guess it's a common practice outside Calif. He did have to rebuild his last one at 850,000 miles, so maybe he knows something.
But hey, advise on the inter web is just that, so do with your diesel as you see fit. Most of you will never wear a diesel motor out, unless it had a lot of hours on it prior to you. Adding a quart of cheap oil to every 100 gals isn't gonna were your engine out any sooner.

CC

OK, so stuff you have used has not hurt you engine. How do you measure or quantify "not hurt" and like wise "does help"?

A fuel additive study done by the trucking industry a few years ago tested a number of diesel additives for effctiveness. Some were found to be helpful. Some not so much, and a few were found to be detrimental. This study was posted by a member to the Grand Banks Owners forum which is where I read it.

Marvel Mystery Oil was one of the additives tesed. MMO was developed during WWII to help prevent the gumming up of carburetors in military vehicles due to poor or variable fuel (gasoline) quality used in the combat zones.

As a diesel fuel additive the trucking industry study shows that MMO actually reduces fuel lubricity, something you do not want in an older jerk-injection engine like the FL120. Rather than having little or no beneficial effect as a diesel additive MMO was found to actually have a detrimental effect. The study summary states it is NOT recommended as a diesel fuel additive.

Bob Smith knows a lot about Ford Lehman engines but in the case of MMO he is unfortunately promoting an old shade-tree mechanic's myth.

sunchaser said:

CC

OK, so stuff you have used has not hurt you engine. How do you measure or quantify "not hurt" and like wise "does help"?

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Not sure how to quantify or measure, just made sense that if you take the Lube out of the fuel, or reduce in the form of Sulfur, motors that were designed to run on the older fuel would suffer. If nothing else, I felt better in doing so.

I kinda look at it as the days when we had leaded fuel for for gas motors, we needed to add stuff to help them run when the govt. decided we didn't need it any more.

And I suppose it won't be long before new technology will change things again. Just a matter of time I suppose.

Again this is just my opinion, and you all know what opinions are like.

As sulfur was removed from diesel, lubricity additives have been added prior to sale. They seem to meet the necessary standards.

Seems the concern for this by the big engine manufacturers is, if the fuel don't meet the standard, use an additive...if it does, there is no need to regularly add one.

So it would seem to me, without testing your fuel every fill up you are just guessing, I just havent convinced myself that burning several hundred gallons of substandard fuel every once and awhile will probably not hurt my engine to where I would ever know.

If I use it every time, then for the better, well known and proven additives, of which I don't consider MMO to be a member of, the cost is not great, but there. Also it is just having it on hand when travelling, and adding it at fill ups that is not a big deal, but still an added step. Again for something that is relatively unproven as necessary by any large body of science that I completely trust.

All I know is the vast majority of boaters and commercial operators I know DON'T use additives and don't seem to care and run their engines for as long as anyone else.

Marin said:

A fuel additive study done by the trucking industry a few years ago tested a number of diesel additives for effctiveness. Some were found to be helpful. Some not so much, and a few were found to be detrimental. This study was posted by a member to the Grand Banks Owners forum which is where I read it.

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Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

Being a mechanical engineer and also one who has done some fairly extensive testing in the past using the same method used in the diesel place study, I can say results using this method are very reliable.
Therefore I trust the study much more than the "feel good" opinions of mechanics. Facts are facts. Period.

MMO, Smells good too!

Has a friend at Mobile that sent MMO to the lab.

#1 diesel, red die and oil of wintergreen for the smell.

If anything for an old diesel I think 2 stroke lube oil would be best help.

FF said:

MMO, Smells good too!

Has a friend at Mobile that sent MMO to the lab.

#1 diesel, red die and oil of wintergreen for the smell.

If anything for an old diesel I think 2 stroke lube oil would be best help.

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Fred

I'm glad to learn of lab test done on MMO to find its contents. Is "#1 diesel, red die and oil of wintergreen" all the test depicted... or were there other contents found (or not able to be found) in MMO. I've always wondered MMO contents. Any chance of report on the test?

As an oil additive: I had a very interesting, positive-outcome experience with MMO in a high performance 350 gasoline Chevy truck engine; at 90K mi +/-. It now has 110K and still going strong with same problem not reoccurring.

I.E., Previous Problem: While accelerating during up-shifts entering freeways there was a pronounced heavy puff of grey smoke each time changing gears. Engine emitted no smoke while running at speed or down shifting or while going down hill in compression and then tromping on gas peddle. Per recommendation from an old, seasoned mechanic, I changed oil (always do so at approx 3K mi); included 1 qt Marvel Mystery Oil. By next oil change - problem solved!

This is the only time I ever used MMO.

IMO the only mystery in MMO is why people still buy it.

As stated above few diesels wear out and mechanical diesels will burn most any oil. So much so that there was a system some time ago that added old lube oil to the fuel to burn it.

Any time you use a product for something it wasn't intended there's a good chance undesirable things will happen.

Many over the years that don't know any better use automotive lube oil in two stroke engines. Auto lube has additives in it that reduce the tendency for it to mix w gas so fuel drain into the crankcase will float on top of the oil and evaporate more readily. Obviously you don't want something in your two stroke oil that prevents it from mixing w gas.

I don't think MMO was designed for anything but to sell to people that buy into "tricks" where some mystery product knows better than all the engineers of the land. I am more than suspect of a lubricant labeled "mystery oil". The appeal to suckers is obvious. If it said "Marvel upper cyl lube for Diesel engines" or just "Marvel upper lube" for short and it said (w footnotes) shown to reduce wear by Catapiller, JD ect ect .. whole different ballgame. It's about as snake oil as snake oil gets. Maybe it makes toilets flush better duh. Oh it makes my bathroom smell better .........

This has been a discussion for several decades. 21 years and I have not added oil to the diesel as today's diesel already has additives that meet most mfg requirements. Besides we burn serveral hundreds of gallons in the wabasto which burns clean.