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Jethro

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I am new here, and hoping to garner some information.* My wife and I are shopping for a compact trawler.* We have been looking hard at the Ranger R29, both via the internet as well as sporadic magazine articles pertaining to them.* We are intrigued with them to say the least.* We are not so much interested in the trailerable aspec of them, it is more the compactness of them and the long list of features that are included.* I often see them referered to as the "perfect coastal cruiser" for a couple.* I understand what this means, but really would be interested in their "offshore" capabilities.* We would like to spend our winters in the Bahamas and have even considered places further south (Turks/Caicos, D.R.).* Are we crazy to even consider this in such a compact trawler..?

Thoughts would be appreciated..!
 
Jethro:

I have been aboard R29s on two different occasions. They are great little compact boats and I could see myself owning one. Would I take it to the Bahamas and beyond?
NO WAY!
 
SeaHorse II wrote:

Jethro:

I have been aboard R29s on two different occasions. They are great little compact boats and I could see myself owning one. Would I take it to the Bahamas and beyond?
NO WAY!
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I'm with you Walt. First of all, you can buy a lot more boat for the same money, but most importantly, it's not a boat meant for open ocean. Period!!!

*
 
Hate to think about the effects of a large wave coming down on the stern, particularly with that huge swimming platform.
 
Hey, thanks guys. That's the type of honest feedback I was looking for, and tha's kinda what I figured the responses would be.

Now, with that being said, and realizing this is the "trailerable" part of the forums, so this question may be better suited in one of the other forums, if so, feel free to tell me so.

How bout the Camano "Troll", she's a little bigger, and from what I hear, built like a tank and designed to be a comfortable "seaworthy" boat...whatever that means. Is she Bahama worthy..? Maybe even a little further south..
 
There was a brand new Ranger 29 for sale on our dock for awhile. While I found the price somewhat staggering for what you got, it did not appear to be a boat you'd want to get into really rough water, high winds, etc. A good friend recently ran a Ranger 29 from the Seattle area up beyond Desolation Sound. He and his kids that went with him had a great time, no question. But it's a coastal cruiser for sure.

A Camano Troll appears to be a much more substantial boat (I've never actually been on one). It's greater weight alone should reduce the "cork in a hurricane" ride you'd get in a light boat like the Ranger if the weather kicked up. I would be pretty leery of the Camano's big windows out on the ocean if the weather turned mean, but that's a concern in any boat like this, including a GB.

My only experience in open-ocean boating has been in Hawaii where I crewed on a few sailboats and did a lot of fishing with a friend. The boat I fished on most was a Uniflite with a planing hull and twin-Chrysler V-8s. We had a lot of fun but it was a completely wrong boat for that kind of fishing. My friend went on to larger boats and today has a small fleet of longline tuna boats. But other than that Uniflite, all his boats have been displacement. I fished for a bit on his first displacement boat--- a 36-footer-- and the difference in ride and stability was impressive. I dont' think I'd want to go out into the open ocean in anything other than a displacement boat, the one exception being a lobsterboat which is built to handle rough water and can run fast to get to cover before bad weather hits.



-- Edited by Marin on Monday 17th of January 2011 08:11:56 PM
 
The Ranger 29 is a very lightweight boat and it's "offshore" capabilities are minimal.
The Camano Troll is a step up but a not a big one. They are beautiful boats and for a mostly planing hull they are very efficient. I lusted after them a few years ago and think they make very excellent use of space. Used Camano Troll 31s are available for under $125K.
But if you want a small trawler (smaller than a Nordic Tug) you will have very few choices. One that is a very good boat w good rough water capabilities is the Albin 27 but again there are few to choose from. You will find, however quite a number of "cruisers" that aren't so cute that are better sea boats. I'd look there first.

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Monday 17th of January 2011 08:35:43 PM
 
IMHO, one qualification of a coastal cruiser is a boat operated so it is able to*reach a safe, accessible refuge in time*to avoid winds over*24-31 m.p.h.* Protected waters with less wave heights for the given wind velocities, will raise the threshhold.

-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 17th of January 2011 08:58:21 PM
 
I realize that I will forthwith be banned from this site and my name blotted from memory, but if you want a small cruiser capable of offshore passages you want a blue water sailboat.* Given the market, for the cost of a Cal 40 or similar, you can have a vessel with the same internal capacity as a 29 Ranger, but capable of crossing oceans without the risk of becoming flotsam (or is it jetsam?).*

By definition, when they say 'coastal cruiser', I think what they mean "is by all means never take this vessel into the open ocean."
 
Delfin wrote:

I realize that I will forthwith be banned from this site and my name blotted from memory, but if you want a small cruiser capable of offshore passages you want a blue water sailboat.* Given the market, for the cost of a Cal 40 or similar, you can have a vessel with the same internal capacity as a 29 Ranger, but capable of crossing oceans without the risk of becoming flotsam (or is it jetsam?).*

By definition, when they say 'coastal cruiser', I think what they mean "is by all means never take this vessel into the open ocean."
Click to expand...
At risk of joining you, burning in hell for longer than anyone could have imagined, I must agree with you Carl. Personally, I'd rather do the trip in Delphin, but...

*
 
If I was to design a coastal cruiser I'd expect it to go 5 or 10 miles into the open ocean as regularly as it's owner wishes as long as he proceeds under fair weather forecasts. But Mark, I can assure you that you will be out in winds way over 40mph in Puget Sound on rare occasions and in Alaska not so rare. Only very timid sailors that hardly go anywhere will avoid 40 mph winds. Eventually you will be there*** ...just like eventually you will run a-ground. Richard Cook did very serious and extensive cruising in a light flat bottomed outboard boat and I've crossed Dixon Entrance in seas as big as 2 story houses also in a light OB boat but if a designer set out to design a primarily seaworthy boat I'm sure it would be heavier than most other boats designed w other priorities. But w a light boat it's great to have a lot of canned beans in the bilge securely stowed when it gets nasty.
 
nomadwilly wrote:

*But Mark, I can assure you that you will be out in winds way over 40mph in Puget Sound on rare occasions and in Alaska not so rare. Only very timid sailors that hardly go anywhere will avoid 40 mph winds. Eventually you will be there*** ...just like eventually you will run a-ground.
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Eric, it's not so much the wind but the 15- to 20-foot seas such winds can create that are the issue.* By the way, I've already*run aground six times, including four times one night.

*
 
Delfin wrote:

* Given the market, for the cost of a Cal 40 or similar, you can have a vessel with the same internal capacity as a 29 Ranger, but capable of crossing oceans without the risk of becoming flotsam (or is it jetsam?).*
Click to expand...
My ideal, small ocean voyager, although not nearly as*inexpensive as a Cal 40:

1624290_19.jpg


*
 
Are we crazy to even consider this in such a compact trawler..?


No , but there is no need to.

The bigger the better in terms of on board comfort . Today with many really inexpensive boats that usually just need some polish , a 45 or 50 fter would not cost more.

Of course if you hare boat work ANY sixed boat will be a hassle.

Anchoring out , size (at least under 55 or 60 ft) is no cost or hassle .

Read FL Marriner , find a nice 45 fter for say $35K and get going.
 
Marin wrote:A Camano Troll appears to be a much more substantial boat (I've never actually been on one).
______________________________________________________________
Same here.....I did go aboard one several years ago at the dealer on Lake Union. (Can't remember his name.) I remember being impressed with the boat and wondering how they rode. I like them!
Click to expand...
 
Thank You for your thoughts everyone, I really do appreciate it. While I am not a "novice" boater, I have ZERO trawler experience and limited knowledge of them. So getting your feedback is much appreciated.

I have crossed over and back to the "west end" of the Bahamas several times in a 28 foot Mako center console with twin 300's (fishing..not doing illegal things..LOL), but obviously we wait for a weather window and then we go fast..! I've posted the same quiry on other sites, and it's pretty much 100% no way on the Ranger and about 60/40 on the Camano being doable, including an endorsement for the Bahamas from the manufacturer themselves. I appreciate some of your thoughts on a sailboat, but we just aren't interested in that experience. We would rather travel in a trawler and be limited to just the Bahamas and watching the weather closely, than go sailing to wherever. Once you reach the Bahamas, it's pretty much all coastal cruising nearly all the way to the Exumas, with alot of places to slip out of the weather if necessary. Making the jump to the Turks/Caicos is obviously a whole nother story, but again, its not a huge open water crossing.
 
nomadwilly wrote:

...just like eventually you will run a-ground.
Click to expand...
I believe that "two kinds of boaters, those who have run aground and those who will" saying is total BS.* You run argound because you screw up.* I've been messing around with boats of various kinds for over 40 years and have never gone aground and don't expect to ever go aground in however many years I continue to mess around in boats.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 19th of January 2011 12:36:37 AM
 
Marin
Your view is very short sighted IMHO. Established channels shift due to wind and current, Buoys
move due to ice,currents and being hit. I have been aground many times-mostly my fault but also
in a charted channel where I should have sufficient water. Dont' give me the argument that is an
East Coast/ICW phenom. Look at the boats Crowley builds to service Alaskan villages. They are made to go aground-the mission of these is to get fuel and supplies to people. Some of the operators of these boats are in their late 20's and early 30's, they haven't been alive for your 40 years of boating experience. I guarantee they get more experience in one season than any of you
would believe. They don't tie up when it is night. They don't tie up when it snows. They don't tie up
because it is blowing 40 kts. They don't pull into the marina for happy hour. And yes , sometimes they even go aground.
Navigational buoys are advertised on the chart as "Aids to navigation only" and their position should not be relied upon.
 
Point taken Jack. Now let's not get into a pissing match with 17 pages of why you should or shouldn't go aground.

Back on track!!!!

Jethro, you know about going to the Bahamas more than 99% of the people on this board. I personally believe the Ranger would do just fine giving it the same discretion as you did the Mako. Obviously, it is nowhere near as fast but I am assuming that they do go planing speeds???

And the reason Yanmar contracted Bimmer to do their engines was because the LHA series engines were too dirty for the upcoming green laws. I think this is a transient thing until Yanmar can get their **** together and make small cleaner engines. This range includes 100-300hp engines.

Now, as everybody has said, at this price point($230k for a base boat), there are a lot of very fine boats to be had in that range. If you are stuck on the tug theme, Many NT32s are out there for that money. If you shop hard, you might even be able to get into a NT37 although that would take some bargaining. And don't forget the American Tug 34.

While the Camano Troll is a fundamentally decent boat, I don't like them because of the lack of safe side decks. Really no place to hang outside except the cockpit. This is fine in the PNW where boating life is viewed thru the windows. But if you are talking Southern latitudes, I would want some more places to hang out on the exterior...obviously with shade.

And since you are talking Bahamas and seaworthiness, PDQ makes a wonderful powercat squarely in that price range(Used). Extremely efficient and seaworthy and even with some speed if you need it....not to mention it's ability to get into skinny water and wonderful Bahama cocktail accomodations(read hang out and enjoy your surroundings). My only issue with "small" powercats is the "compartmentalization"......everything on the interior is compartmentalized versus being wide open. A seamen would tell you this is a good thing and I agree reference that. But it is very much like a sailboat interior where you are always climbing stairs and/or ducking under something. The PDQ is even a bot salty and handsome...unlike it's Endeavourcat competitor(nothing against them BTW...they just aren't as aesthetically pleasing).

I could go on...but I will spare y'all....
 
Baker wrote:
Now, as everybody has said, at this price point($230k for a base boat), there are a lot of very fine boats to be had in that range. If you are stuck on the tug theme, Many NT32s are out there for that money.
________________________________________________________________

Good point!
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If you want a trawler that's trailerable, your choices are fewer.* We've spent a ton of time in trailerable power cruisers.* You do have to make some compromises in space and layout to have a boat that really works for extended cruising that's also practical to tow.* Probably helps to have been tent campers in the past - our 26' diesel boat seems like luxury.

If I were doing it again, I'd also consider the North Pacific 28, or maybe a Nordic Tug 26.

If you want to consider faster boats:* Sea Sport made some really solid ones in 26-28 feet.* If you're willing to go 30 feet, Bounty made some great ones, Ocean Roamer does now, and Sea Sport Voyager could be a great choice.



-- Edited by RCook on Wednesday 19th of January 2011 10:41:45 AM
 
Thanks again for your input, this is a great site. I'm sorry my post led into a minor "spirited" discussion, I hate to just barge in and disrupt harmony on any forum, unless I mean to do it..LOL.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, the trailerable aspect of the smaller trawlers is really insignificant to me. My wife and I are merely interested in a more compact trawler, which are REALLY darn hard to find. Our choices seem to be very limited, our lack of trawler knowledge prevented us from knowing this. But we remain undeterred, and will eventually find the perfect boat. We both REALLY like the Camano, just wish we could find some owners on these various forums to get the real inside scoop. From what I've gathered on them, they seem to be just what we are looking for, and there seems to be a good number available at very reasonable prices. When we saw the Ranger R29, we kinda veered offcourse (no pun intended), very neat little boat, but I'm not a huge fan of the interior layout, though I will admit that it is ingenious how they manage to squeeze so many features into such limited space. But as a few pointed out, it is light and compound that with the hull design...well, I can see one taking a beating when things kick up. The cats are intriguing, I've been in a few smaller center console cats, and they are stable boats, however there is a fine line in the hull designs, and if they don't get it right, the hull slap between the two hulls can drive a person nuts, unless of course one has an unlimited fuel fund and doesnt mind running hard to get on plane and on top of the waves to minimize the slap. This is a major problem with sailing cats as well.

Again, we both thank you all (wife has been reading over my shoulder) for your thoughts. Please feel free to add more advice if something comes to mind..! We are soaking up the trawler info like sponges..!
 
Why a "trawler"?

In most sizes they are simply motor boats that wont plane with a "trawlery " deck house.

Down in the 25 -30 ft size the Pug Ugly NIKE boats will have more room, go 3x to 4x the speed and cost less .

Easy to stay under $10,000 and still enjoy the ICW , the loop, or a winter in the Bahamas.

Sure there will be a higher fuel cost BUT the speed and comfort should make up for the gas bucks.

The lower cost maint on a gas motor will easily keep the 5 or 10 year cost lower than a diesel with yachting use.

$6000 for a set of injectors , plus installation , or $5500 for a factory new gas engine?

Tahiti is OUT , but it is OUT on 99.999% of the "trawlers" too.

A NIKE boat ( Profile view) is a Bayliner or any of dozen of its competition.



-- Edited by FF on Wednesday 19th of January 2011 02:36:57 PM
 
Another boat to check out is the CanMar Commander. http://www.canmaryachts.com/ These are made in Canada.* I pulled the little photo off the web.* The company website has an excellent virtual tour you can take of the boat.* Note that there are additional views you can select from the boat planview on the tour page. For example, the photo "bar" has a virtual tour of the head but not the forward cabin.* But on the boat planview you can select a VT of the forward cabin.

Several years ago Carey (of this forum) and I went to the Vancouver boat show. Carey knows quite a bit about these boats but I'd never heard of them. There was a new Commander 30 on the floor and we went aboard it. VERY impressive and intelligent use of space. It seemed more like a 36' boat or even larger. They also make a 26' Commander but I've not been on one of these.

A fellow with a boathouse near our dock bought one of the larger SeaSport models a number of years ago.* He had it for a few years and then one day a new Commander 30 appeared in his boathouse.* He has had the Commander for several years now.* I've not talked to him about it but I understand he's a fairly discriminating boater and can afford what he wants so he must have had good reasons for changing from a SeaSport to a Commander.

Most of the photos on the company website show the boat planing.* So this isn't a "trawler" in the sense that many of our boats are.* But..... if the Commander is driven at planing speeds fairly efficiently, speed can be a major advantage.* I would much rather go fast than slow.* You can always slow down a fast boat, but you cant' make a slow boat go faster.* Plodding across the Strait of Georgia is a study in frustration as far as we're concerned.* If it's rough, sure, you don't want to pound your teeth out or tear up the boat.* But on a nice day, it would be wonderful to zip across at 15 or 20 knots.

Anyway, the Commander is very much worth checking out, in my opinon.* They've been making them for awhile now so there are certainly used ones on the market.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 20th of January 2011 01:51:39 PM
 

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Marin wrote:

Another boat to check out is the CanMar Commander. http://www.canmaryachts.com/ These are made in Canada.* I pulled the little photo off the web.* The company website has an excellent virtual tour you can take of the boat.* Note that there are additional views you can select from the boat planview on the tour page. For example, the photo "bar" has a virtual tour of the head but not the forward cabin.* But on the boat planview you can select a VT of the forward cabin.

Several years ago Carey (of this forum) and I went to the Vancouver boat show. Carey knows quite a bit about these boats but I'd never heard of them. There was a new Commander 30 on the floor and we went aboard it. VERY impressive and intelligent use of space. It seemed more like a 36' boat or even larger. They also make a 26' Commander but I've not been on one of these.

A fellow with a boathouse near our dock bought one of the larger SeaSport models a number of years ago.* He had it for a few years and then one day a new Commander 30 appeared in his boathouse.* He has had the Commander for several years now.* I've not talked to him about it but I understand he's a fairly discriminating boater and can afford what he wants so he must have had good reasons for changing from a SeaSport to a Commander.

Most of the photos on the company website show the boat planing.* So this isn't a "trawler" in the sense that many of our boats are.* But..... if the Commander is driven at planing speeds fairly efficiently, speed can be a major advantage.* I would much rather go fast than slow.* You can always slow down a fast boat, but you cant' make a slow boat go faster.* Plodding across the Strait of Georgia is a study in frustration as far as we're concerned.* If it's rough, sure, you don't want to pound your teeth out or tear up the boat.* But on a nice day, it would be wonderful to zip across at 15 or 20 knots.

Anyway, the Commander is very much worth checking out, in my opinon.* They've been making them for awhile now so there are certainly used ones on the market.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 20th of January 2011 01:51:39 PM
Click to expand...

On rare occasion, Commander also builds a 38 footer that is outstanding. They don't like to build them, because they take up the space of two thirty footers in the shop. I had a full tour of one of these a few years back and it met all of my expectations. One thing they do real well is to create built-ins for every little thing, including silverware, dishes, fishing poles, etc. The dishes and silverware actually come with the boat.
 
Marin wrote:

*But on a nice day, it would be wonderful to zip across at 15 or 20 knots.
Click to expand...
Is it the voyage or the destination*one seeks?

*
 
markpierce wrote:

*
Marin wrote:

But on a nice day, it would be wonderful to zip across at 15 or 20 knots.
Click to expand...
Is it the voyage or the destination*one seeks?
It's running the boat. Preferably fast but that's not going to happen with a GB.* I view the voyage as a reason to run the boat.* The destination is a place to stay before starting to run the boat again the next day.* Not that I don't enjoy a destination but the main reason I got into boating and flying is to run the machine.* One reason I prefere a twin is that I like running engines.* I'd have three or four of them if they'd fit
smile.gif


I like being on the move.* One reason I enjoy my job is that we do a fair amount of travelling around the world.** I like seeing new things but I like the act of getting to them more (in most cases) than actually being there.

*
 
jethro,
I'd look at the Nordic Tugs at the $150K level and above.
1. They have an engine that has a near bullet proof reputation and it's a common engine, well known and easy to get parts for and work on. Probably 3gph.
2. The fuel tanks are aluminum and your chances of problems are minimal. This is a HUGE problem or time bomb on most other boats.
3. I think Nordics are about as free of blisters as any boat on the market.
I think the 26 is a bit of a little tub and the 37 is certainly not a compact.
If you don't like it find another boat w great tanks, engine and hull.

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 20th of January 2011 10:49:16 PM

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 20th of January 2011 11:00:13 PM
 
nomadwilly wrote:

....he said the gel-coat they use is so smooth nothing can grow on it.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm----* not sure I'd buy that one.* Slime can get going an anything, even a piece of glass.* And the photos of the Commanders on the manufacturer's website all have the bottoms painted.

*
 
Marin wrote:

*
nomadwilly wrote:

....he said the gel-coat they use is so smooth nothing can grow on it.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm----* not sure I'd buy that one.* Slime can get going an anything, even a piece of glass.* And the photos of the Commanders on the manufacturer's website all have the bottoms painted.I'm with you on that Marin. My guess is the guy kept the boat out of the water except when cruising. Maybe he stored it a a place like Hilton Harbor Marina in Bellingham, where they place your boat on the trailer the majority of the time.

*
 
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