Paravane install

This is about how I would like my boat to look after a paravane install.
I like the small mast for a "get home" sail also.



This is a drawing of my boat with a 40' mast installed. The lines are close to the Kasten boat but not nearly as nice looking. Michael Kasten has some neat looking designs IMO.



Roberta Jean 43 - Classic Trawler Yacht

Forgot the drawing of my boat with a mast. Mast is too big in this drawing. Maybe a 25' mast would look better.

Hope you don't mind if I watch over your shoulder, as I have dreams of paravanes myself in a couple years.

Is this going to be DIY, or are you going to have someone do it for/with you? Asking because the forces involved are daunting...

No, definitely not a DIY. I don't have the skills. I need to get some plans drawn up by a NA.

I have a engineer buddy at the Cat plant here in town who is an excellent fabricator and loves to weld aluminum, and he's excited about the project.

I'm toying with the idea of doing something like Richard did on Dauntless-- a very minimalistic design that seems to be working for him. I've talked with the rigger who did his in Miami, but not sure I can work out the logistics because of the distance.

cardude01 said:

No, definitely not a DIY. I don't have the skills. I need to get some plans drawn up by a NA.

I have a engineer buddy at the Cat plant here in town who is an excellent fabricator and loves to weld aluminum, and he's excited about the project.

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You're on the right track. Starting with a NA is your best and safest first step. As Murray mentioned the forces/loading are huge. The NA will determine the placement of the mast, hull reinforcements and rigging requirements. Maybe contact Tad Roberts? He has designed paravanes systems I believe? Distance may be an issue (he's in BC) but if for nothing else he can help with the practicality of the project.

Ditto. Be interesting to see if you don't just wind up with the sailing version in the end.


Via iPhone.

cafesport said:

Ditto. Be interesting to see if you don't just wind up with the sailing version in the end.


Via iPhone.

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I actually like the idea of a sail rig but don't think it will give me the same amount of roll control, plus it's more expensive, plus I would like to keep the boat under cover these next few years while I'm here in Texas.

But eventually, a sail rig could happen.

Larry M said:

You're on the right track. Starting with a NA is your best and safest first step. As Murray mentioned the forces/loading are huge. The NA will determine the placement of the mast, hull reinforcements and rigging requirements. Maybe contact Tad Roberts? He has designed paravanes systems I believe? Distance may be an issue (he's in BC) but if for nothing else he can help with the practicality of the project.

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I have reached out to Tad and we have discussed some things, but he doesn't have access to a boat like mine so we haven't gotten very far.

I've also reached out to the guy who designed the rig on Dauntless for Richard. Kind of a minimalist rig but it seems to be working. He is in the Miami area and is trying to get access to an SP or PY cruiser to take a look at things

My biggest problem so far has been where to mount the mast. My PH roof is not strong enough and a compression post wouldn't work there due to interior restrictions. One idea (mine not Tad's) was to mount the mast in front of the PH windows but split the mount into two and make the mast a triangle. There are a couple of flat spots at the edge of the PH windows that would make a good mount (and good access inside) but I don't know that area is strong enough to take the compression without a compression post underneath. They are in a corner so that helps I guess. I assume the triangle would need to be stayed at various places.

Very rough idea:

Capt.Bill11 said:

Gyro Gale Stabilizers | Marine Stabilizers for Yachts

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or these at $29,900. Products - Seakeeper Inc.

Superior Marine in Kemah, TX do Seakeeper factory support.

cardude01 said:

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My biggest problem so far has been where to mount the mast. My PH roof is not strong enough and a compression post wouldn't work there due to interior restrictions. ............

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Would it be possible to install an arch shaped compression post or two post with a header? This could possible solve your interior problems and it would still take the load plus it would split the load to two post instead of just one which may or may not be beneficial.

Diesel Duck 492 said:

Would it be possible to install an arch shaped compression post or two post with a header? This could possible solve your interior problems and it would still take the load plus it would split the load to two post instead of just one which may or may not be beneficial.

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That's what I was thinking about with my "triangle mast" idea in that rough sketch. Or maybe I don't understand what you are saying.

Edit:

Wait, are you talking about an arched post (or two) inside? That's interesting. Could a compression post be mounted to the interior floor or does it have to go to something more substantial?

Larry M said:

or these at $29,900. Products - Seakeeper Inc.

Superior Marine in Kemah, TX do Seakeeper factory support.

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Plus something like the SeaKeeper system will add value to the boat to more people than the para vanes will. IMO more people would rather throw a switch to get stabilization than go to the work of deploying para vanes. Plus the Seakeeper will work in shallow water and doesn't cause you to waste time waiting for bridge openings. Especially when installed on a low profile boat like the one in question here.

Here's some pics of my setup. The part of the mast that goes thru the galley roof are the white poles in the interior shot; port side is behind the cushion by the table, starboard is by the refrigerator shown to the left of the fire extinguisher. If you need more pics let me know.
Mike

What does a setup like that cost? Assuming you don't build and install it yourself.

Forgot to add, the poles go thru the galley roof, thru the deck, then are welded to the stringers in the hull.

Mine came w/ the boat.

cardude01 said:

.........

Wait, are you talking about an arched post (or two) inside? That's interesting. Could a compression post be mounted to the interior floor or does it have to go to something more substantial?

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Yes, that's the direction I was heading. Since I'm not familiar with your boat I'm just throwing out some ideas that may work for your particular vessel. And yes, the compression posts could be mounted to the floor but only if the floor was solid/strong enough etc. Again, not having even been aboard a boat like yours I can't say for sure it this idea has any merit for your vessel.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Plus something like the SeaKeeper system will add value to the boat to more people than the para vanes will. IMO more people would rather throw a switch to get stabilization than go to the work of deploying para vanes. Plus the Seakeeper will work in shallow water and doesn't cause you to waste time waiting for bridge openings. Especially when installed on a low profile boat like the one in question here.

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I don't think there is room for a gyro on my boat. It's a sailboat hull basically without any extra room in the engine compartment or lazzerette. Plus I don't want to spend that much.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Plus something like the SeaKeeper system will add value to the boat to more people than the para vanes will. IMO more people would rather throw a switch to get stabilization than go to the work of deploying para vanes. Plus the Seakeeper will work in shallow water and doesn't cause you to waste time waiting for bridge openings. Especially when installed on a low profile boat like the one in question here.

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And don't forget to add that you will need to run your generator continuously to power the SeaKeeper not to mention it takes a very long time for the gyro to wind up (per reports that I've read). Personally, I would not want to have my generator running all the time. I lean more to the "green" side of things and that's why I think paravanes are the way to go for stabilization.

Several years ago I was walking the docks in Skidegate, Haida Gwaii, where I saw a boat like my C&L 44 set up with paravanes. The attachment of the poles and control posts was to the hull at deck level and the mast was positioned over the back wall of the main cabin. There was no outward sign of reinforcing, but of course the inside may have been substantially beefed up.

Just made me think you can add paravanes to almost any design if you do your homework on stress points.

Gulf Comanche said:

Forgot to add, the poles go thru the galley roof, thru the deck, then are welded to the stringers in the hull.

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Wow. That's stout.

I really need to get an expert on a boat like mine so he/she can walk around and look at the various mounting possibilities. I just don't know enough at this point. Don't know the downward force on the mast, don't know how strong the fiberglass is at various points on my boat, don't know if I can get by without compression posts. Basically, I don't know squat!

Diesel Duck 492 said:

And don't forget to add that you will need to run your generator continuously to power the SeaKeeper not to mention it takes a very long time for the gyro to wind up (per reports that I've read). Personally, I would not want to have my generator running all the time. I lean more to the "green" side of things and that's why I think paravanes are the way to go for stabilization.

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Good points. And of course any system has its pros and cons.

But many powerboats these days are running their gensets almost 24/7. And paravanes just aren't practical for shallow water running like the ICW. And then there's the bridge thing.

I just think for most coastal cruisers paravanes aren't very practical.

Bu as always, YMMV.

Many of the commercial trawler in the PNW have them so their are plenty examples to look at. Most have been added after, so the addition suport is on the outside. Could run a new extorior support mainly using the walls which you could also added exterior support as well. Maybe be the boat already has a mast foot in its original design of sails are an option.

You might also talk to a sail boat rigger as they have some basic under standing ans ideas. I already have the poles, plates and fish. We took aAlaska cruise, and many made poles out of natural straight pine poles, hand most of the support wad chain plates and wire stays like sail boats, which I thought was interesting. So walk the docks.

Has anyone ever mounted a pair of hull shaped wings that fold down under water when you need roll reduction? Something like stabilizer wings but could fold up against the hull side when not in use.

Since you don't have the leverage of the boom length, that might work easier on boat that won't work with paravanes.

cardude01 said:

Forgot the drawing of my boat with a mast. Mast is too big in this drawing. Maybe a 25' mast would look better.


View attachment 44561

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that boom is way to high above the coach roof.

why

I have seen wings on sail boat keels. Another idea is to just hang the fish from a cleat with out poles. We were mored on lake union, Seattle, close to the speed test zone and waked, so I hung roll stopper cones from the mid cleats, which reduced the roll by at least 50%.

Also the angles of the suppot and cable lines is very important. The larger the angle to more the stress. Heavy load riggers have to know angles vs stress loads.

Jimbo2015 said:

that boom is way to high above the coach roof.

why

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Not sure why the boom is so high. That was drawn by the Island Packet folks. Maybe to clear stuff mounted in the PH roof?

Jimbo2015 said:

that boom is way to high above the coach roof.

why

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Agree 100%

Have you contacted Island Packet? They may assist as they likely have a vested interest in their product.

The compression post or arch should be a no-brainer for them.