blistering Cap rail joints

JDCAVE said:

Thanks Marin for the advice on the TDS product. Definitely superior to the Sikaflex product. I followed the instructions from S-3 Maritime and caulked in two layers, although I suspect that wasn't necessary. It definitely didn't gas at all, unlike the Sikaflex that when cured looked like closed-cell neoprene.


Jim
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Jim,

I know that others (Larry on Hobo) opened up the joints with a Dremel. Did you do that? If so, how deep did you go?

Mike


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

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Jim you will like the TDS caulk . Larry told me about it and I use it almost everywhere I have teak . It cleans up really well with the brush cleaner stuff that smells good , I forget the name . Here is where we used TDS on our door panels . We used a flexible plastic putty knife and had good results .

Mike: I had considered the Dremel as suggested by Larry but ended up using a "Feins-tool-a-like" with a new, sharp blade. I went down about 5/8" and 1/4" wide. The new KK builds are about that wide. I believe Larry also mentioned the TDS caulk to me as well.


Jim
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Feins has purpose built Teak Blades in various sizes that make incredibly short, clean work of deck caulk removal. Kind of hook shaped. Scroll down this page and you'll see them. Yes they are worth it in time saved and quality of the work.

Fein MultiMaster Cutting Blades, Scraping Blades

Re the gloves Marin and all I think there are "mechanics" gloves probably much more suited for this find of use than nylon or latex gloves.

I've only used them once and I think I was'nt 100% pleased. Anybody else had more experience w them?

JDCAVE said:

Mike: I had considered the Dremel as suggested by Larry but ended up using a "Feins-tool-a-like" with a new, sharp blade. I went down about 5/8" and 1/4" wide. The new KK builds are about that wide. I believe Larry also mentioned the TDS caulk to me as well.


Jim
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Thanks Jim. That's a project I need to take on soon.


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

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caltexflanc said:

Feins has purpose built Teak Blades in various sizes that make incredibly short, clean work of deck caulk removal. Kind of hook shaped. Scroll down this page and you'll see them. Yes they are worth it in time saved and quality of the work.

Fein MultiMaster Cutting Blades, Scraping Blades

Click to expand...

Thanks...I was about to google it.


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

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Marty,
What are you using as a finish coat. Did you apply the TDS after your final finish or finish over it?
Thanks,
Bill

I'm not sure what Marty was going to use, but I used epoxy sealer inside the joint. 2coats Cetol Natural Teak and 5 coats and counting of the Cetol Marine Gloss. Then I taped off the joint and used the TDS product, removing the tape immediately after the product was applied. I will apply more cetol but not on the joint.


Jim
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Jim or Marty,
TDS recommends "bond breaker tape" on the bottom of the seam. I have no idea what this is.
Bill

manyboats said:

Re the gloves Marin and all I think there are "mechanics" gloves probably much more suited for this find of use than nylon or latex gloves.

I've only used them once and I think I was'nt 100% pleased. Anybody else had more experience w them?

Click to expand...

not a fan of harbor freight but I do use their heavy disposable gloves, 5 mil I think.. they really last and are a good value unlike a lot of stuff they sell.
HOLLYWOOD

Bill Ranson said:

Marty,
What are you using as a finish coat. Did you apply the TDS after your final finish or finish over it?
Thanks,
Bill

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I used Epifanes about six coats . I have done it both ways varnished first on this door panel and varnished after on my cap rails . I din't put anything on the joints except for may a little varnish that ran over the edges . Not sure what bond breaker tape is .

Pack Mule said:

... Not sure what bond breaker tape is .

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The tape is used when redoing deck seams. It is about the width of a seam and put on the bottom prior to applying the caulk. I didn't use it on my cap rail nor would I recommend it. My cap rail is ~1" thick vs 3/8" to 1/2" for deck planks.

I did not use anything on the joint before applying the TDS other than brushing with acetone to remove any residual oils in the teak, You want a strong bond between the TDS and the teak. When decks are redone, no precoating or primers are used on the deck seams other than acetone when using TDS.

After I filled the joints with TDS and it cured, I sanded the cap rails for the Cetol and covered everything. After 5 plus years no moisture or cracking at the joints. I only opened my joints up about the width of a quarter.

Any masking tape

Bill Ranson said:

Jim or Marty,
TDS recommends "bond breaker tape" on the bottom of the seam. I have no idea what this is.
Bill

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Masking tape or cotton caulking used as way to keep the caulk from sticking to the substrate. If the caulking sticks to the substrate it can pull from the teak planks causing cracks between the caulking and the teak. The caulk sticks better to the substrate than the oily teak. Cotton caulking is easier to use than trying to get masking tape in the bottom of the joint.

I might add that I have had great luck preserving the use of an open tube of 5200, acrylic or latex caulks by keeping them in the refrigerator once open. Works great if there is room in the frig.

Glen

RNL said:

I might add that I have had great luck preserving the use of an open tube of 5200, acrylic or latex caulks by keeping them in the refrigerator once open. Works great if there is room in the frig.

Glen

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Or if the Admiral allows.

JDCAVE said:

I'm going through this now. I refinished my caprail last spring and the finish has failed at the joints. S-3 Maritime does the commissioning for the new build kadey Krogens and they now caulk all the joints on the caprail. I have an email in to them but I want to report my recent failure. Yesterday, after considerable perpetration, I filled the joints with Sikaflex 291 and was very pleased with the way it looked...until 3 hours after it cured and I has Sikaflex soufflé! The Sikaflex had raised up considerably above the joint. I pulled the material out of one joint and it looks like closed cell neoprene. This looks to me like the product gases on curing.
View attachment 40385
I'm now looking into TDS Teak Deck Caulking but am unsure if I can source this product up here. BTW, as Sunchaser mentions, my joints are zigzagged.


Jim
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In my experience this will happen with Sikaflex if it is applied when temperatures are too high.

I used TDS on my deck, 60' of it. It failed all over, terribly. I sanded the joints with 80 grit, I put breaker tape into the joints, I even sacrificed a small mammal. It failed everywhere.

One side deck however did not fail, looking closely I noticed that it seemed to be slightly different. I talked to one of the guys who works for me who had done that section of deck, he confessed that he had misunderstood and had used one of the other sealants from the shop truck, Sikaflex 1a.

8 years and not a single failure and in that time I have slowly removed the TDS as it failed with a fien tool and replaced it with Sikaflex 1a.

When applying in the summer you need to shade the area, even in Seattle sun on a spring day can push deck temperatures above 130F in direct sunlight. I had this same bubbly experience in a couple of placed and had to dig it out. I put up a shade tarp and recualked the seam and it didn't happen again.

I am now preparing to open all my scarf joints, seal the end grain with penetrating epoxy sealant and fill the void with 1a as well becasue ever winter they open and crack the varnish....

I used a sharp chisel and cut the joint into a 'v' shape, then I used the tds and varnished as per usual. Worked for years. I also used Le Tonkinoise varnish which is only tung oil and linseed therefore no solvents to flash off and very flexible.

cap rails?

Rail caps.