Radio protocol

rwidman wrote:

My pet peeve? People using the marine radio like a telephone. Talking about what they are having for dinner, where they are going next week, where they were last week, etc. Or fishermen doing the same thing talking about the fishing or whatever.

VHF communications should be short and sweet. Say what you need to say, hear what you need to hear, and let it be for the next user.

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seconded!* Actually most of what everyone else said.* * I think kids playing on the radio is the worst though.* ESPECIALLY if it is 16.

*

Another of my gripes are the folks that call every minute until they get satisfaction. If my memory serves me, we are supposed to call no more than two or three times with about two to three minutes pause in between, and if no response is received, then wait at least fifteen minutes before hailing again. This procedure is unknown by many of us weekend warriors.

Hiya,
** Ms. Pineapple and Mr. rw.* There's nothing wrong IMHO with people "chatting" on VHF as long as it's on a working channel and NOT on 16.* Many times I have heard charter fisherman exchanging information regarding depths and baits.* There should be enough space and working channels for all this to go on.
*** I have NO patience for CB type talk on ANY channel.*

RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Ms. Pineapple and Mr. rw.* There's nothing wrong IMHO with people "chatting" on VHF as long as it's on a working channel and NOT on 16.* Many times I have heard charter fisherman exchanging information regarding depths and baits.* There should be enough space and working channels for all this to go on.
I have NO patience for CB type talk on ANY channel.

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RTI almost agree with you a 100% on this one. Well, maybe 99.7%, as in the San Juan Islands, and I'm sure in many other areas with a large vacation crowd in July and August, it can be very difficult to get a word in edgewise. Other than those months, i would not begrudge swapping recipes, or any other chatter.*

*

Being "hearing challenged" the worst offenders to my ability to understand is the USCG and others, when they talk so darn fast.(what the heck, is it a contest to see who can speak the most words in a day?)* In the long run, there would be less air time used if the communication was heard the first time, rather than having to say, "sorry, I couldn't copy all that, could you repeat"? I also find this to be true when someone leaves a voice mail, and the return phone number is spit out so fast as to be unintelligible. * ...........Arctic Traveller

Arctic Traveller wrote:

Being "hearing challenged" the worst offenders to my ability to understand is the USCG and others, when they talk so darn fast.(what the heck, is it a contest to see who can speak the most words in a day?)* In the long run, there would be less air time used if the communication was heard the first time, rather than having to say, "sorry, I couldn't copy all that, could you repeat"? I also find this to be true when someone leaves a voice mail, and the return phone number is spit out so fast as to be unintelligible. * ...........Arctic Traveller

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Same problem here, so it must be them------not us!

*

Hiya,
** Not to spit hairs but when*I took my radio exam, repeat was NOT accepted practice.* The proper request was "Say again" and "I could not copy that" is CB talk.**
**** Hmmmm.....Protocol??????

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Monday 13th of December 2010 08:34:42 PM

My biggest pet peeve is when the USCG provides emergency information about a vessel in distress and then they give you the lat and lon...and that is all. It would be very nice and very conveneient and MUCH more effective if, after they gave your the coordinates, give you an estimated position in English....like "....xx.xxxN....xxx.xxxW....or 25 miles SSW of Galveston....something like that. I'm sorry, but I am not gonna get out the chart every time I hear one of these....and we hear them all the time down here. I MIGHT look at my chartplotter and try to interpolate approx where they are at....I might not.

In ref to "over"....I think it has evolved more into a question as in..."Did you hear what I just said"....usually used on the second transmission after the receiving party missed the first transmission. It is more necessary when you are using "worse" means of communication....like HF radio.

I agree, I am a stickler for proper radio protocol(especially in an aircraft)...or at the very least, a consideration for the purpose of the radio.

And there is no way the Alaskan fishing fleet can be any worse than the towboat Captains down here on the Gulf coast. They are mostly cajun and don't even speak English!!!!

I'm beginning to regret having a VHF radio installed (it's standard equipment on the Coot), given the apparently constant chatter.**Regulations say I have to listen while underway.* Is the chatter on channel 16 that bad?* Never had or needed a two-way radio in my 15 years of Bay Area (auxiliary sailboat) boating.** Please tell me it's not that bad.

markpierce wrote:

I'm beginning to regret having a VHF radio installed (it's standard equipment on the Coot), given the apparently constant chatter.**Regulations say I have to listen while underway.* Is the chatter on channel 16 that bad?* Never had or needed a two-way radio in my 15 years of Bay Area (auxiliary sailboat) boating.** Please tell me it's not that bad.

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Mark, you better stay out of the Bahamas.* Almost everyone afloat or ashore communicates with VHF radio.* It's one big party line.* When we were in Marsh Harbour we had to call for taxis on VHF.

*

RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Not to spit hairs but when*I took my radio exam, repeat was NOT accepted practice.* The proper request was "Say again" and "I could not copy that" is CB talk.**
Hmmmm.....Protocol??????

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Monday 13th of December 2010 08:34:42 PM

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Ditto on "Say again".

*

Mark,

It's not that bad in the Bay Area.* Coast Guard San Francisco, Vallejo,*and Rio Vista jump all over anyone who abuses Channel 16.* Some of the "fishing" channels can get a little revealing at times, however.

Hope to sea you here soon.

Ray

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Monday 13th of December 2010 11:05:53 PM

Baker wrote:

My biggest pet peeve is when the USCG provides emergency information about a vessel in distress and then they give you the lat and lon...and that is all. It would be very nice and very conveneient and MUCH more effective if, after they gave your the coordinates, give you an estimated position in English....like "....xx.xxxN....xxx.xxxW....or 25 miles SSW of Galveston....something like that. I'm sorry, but I am not gonna get out the chart every time I hear one of these....and we hear them all the time down here. I MIGHT look at my chartplotter and try to interpolate approx where they are at....I might not.

In ref to "over"....I think it has evolved more into a question as in..."Did you hear what I just said"....usually used on the second transmission after the receiving party missed the first transmission. It is more necessary when you are using "worse" means of communication....like HF radio.

I agree, I am a stickler for proper radio protocol(especially in an aircraft)...or at the very least, a consideration for the purpose of the radio.

And there is no way the Alaskan fishing fleet can be any worse than the towboat Captains down here on the Gulf coast. They are mostly cajun and don't even speak English!!!!

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I totally agree on the CGs inability to provide points of reference. A simple two miles south of point A, or such and such bay, with a likely drift to the east due to wind and current wouldn't hurt a bit. The other thing that urks me with their broadcasts is their inability to provide local time of a reported incident. Who the hell knows Zulu time? Why do I need to do conversions. Everyone within earshot of their broadcast is in the same or adjacent time zone. Tell me the time in Pacific time, Mountain time, etc.

*

Giggitoni wrote:

It's not that bad in the Bay Area.* Coast Guard San Francisco, Vallejo,*and Rio Vista jump all over anyone who abuses Channel 16.*

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Good.* I'll sleep easier tonight.

*

markpierce wrote:

I'm beginning to regret having a VHF radio installed (it's standard equipment on the Coot), given the apparently constant chatter.**Regulations say I have to listen while underway.* Is the chatter on channel 16 that bad?* Never had or needed a two-way radio in my 15 years of Bay Area (auxiliary sailboat) boating.** Please tell me it's not that bad.

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It's not that bad. Now, for the truth. During peak summer vacation, the "occasional boater" charters for a week and shares his general lack of radio protocol and etiquette. And there are a few others that never did learn the procedures. Sorry, I didn't mean to tell you.*

*

Oh well, there is always the "errant" fuse for the radio circuit if needed to protect my sanity.

Giggitoni wrote:

Hope to sea you hear soon.

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'Sometime' next year, hopefully with a*D-1*Kahlenberg horn, short (compared to a sailboat)*mast, dark-green hull, white superstructure, and yellow trimmings.



*

I happen to like my CB jargon. After 40 years... It's kinda natural now. Sorry.

back to peeves: Vancouver traffic talking so softly and in shorthand to the regular commercial traffic, that we pleasure boaters that just want to know where that big ship they said was coming through first narrows in a few minutes is, can't figure whether we are on an English speaking channel.

Our solution is for the folks that simply want to stay in touch with another boat or two , while on a cruise.

Set the channels for INTL and use the ones that the Canadians use , that most US folks have tuned out.

Works great on the east ditch and here in FL.

Hiya,
** Mr. Carey.* I wish the Securite announcements DID give me the lat' and lon'.* The ones I have heard are usually "Sailboat in distress 3 miles south of Bumfart Point."* Now if I was a local, great, but if passing through ??????* Takes ME a lot longer to TRY to find that location than if I had the lat' and lon'*IF that location is on the chart at all.* Both would be better and double ditto on the local time.
** Mr. Gonzo.* Never having had a CB radio, I don't have that habit to revert to and I suspect when you are broadcasting and recieving 5/5 any*"garbling" is moot but who knows when conditions deteriorate WHAT misenterpretations can occur.*
** Mr. markpierce.* Regarding mandatory monitoring of 16.* The more ears listening in an emergency the better.* YOU may be next (I really hope not).

markpierce wrote:Regulations say I have to listen while underway.

Oh well, there is always the "errant" fuse for the radio circuit if needed to protect my sanity.

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What regulations are those?

If you are operating your 35 foot pleasure boat in US waters there is no law that says you have to have a radio installed to begin with. And there is no law that requires you to listen to a voluntarily installed radio.

Why pull a fuse when the radio has an on/off switch?


-- Edited by RickB on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 05:53:34 AM

RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
** Ms. Pineapple and Mr. rw.* There's nothing wrong IMHO with people "chatting" on VHF as long as it's on a working channel and NOT on 16.* Many times I have heard charter fisherman exchanging information regarding depths and baits.* There should be enough space and working channels for all this to go on.
*** I have NO patience for CB type talk on ANY channel.*

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I nomally keep my radio in the "scan" mode.* If someone ties up one of my scanned channels, I have to go below to the actual radio and delete than channel from the scan sequence.* Later, I have to remember to add it back in.

*

RickB wrote: If you are operating your 35 foot pleasure boat in US waters there is no law that says you have to have a radio installed to begin with. And there is no law that requires you to listen to a voluntarily installed radio.


Why pull a fuse when the radio has an on/off switch?


-- Edited by RickB on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 05:53:34 AM

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That was my belief also until someone on another forum posted a regulation stating that if the boat has a marine radio, you must monitor channel 16 while underway.

*

Actually Rick, if you have a VHF installed you are required to monitor channel 16 when not communicating on another channel. The following is the citation:

Radio Watchkeeping Regulations
In general, any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone (whether voluntarily or required to) must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.
Source: FCC 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.310, NTIA Manual 8.2.29.6.c(2)(e), ITU RR 31.17, 33.18, AP13 §25.2

In addition, every power-driven vessel of 20 meters or over in length or of 100 tons and upwards carrying one or more passengers for hire, or a towing vessel of 26 feet or over in length, as well, as every dredge and floating plant operating near a channel or fairway, must also maintain a watch on channel 13 (156.650 MHz) --channel 67 (156.375 MHz) if operating on the lower Mississippi River-- ; while navigating on U.S. waters (which include the territorial sea, internal waters that are subject to tidal influence, and, those not subject to tidal influence but that are used or are determined to be capable of being used for substantial interstate or foreign commerce). Sequential monitoring techniques (scanners) alone cannot be used to meet this requirement; two radios (including portable radios, i.e. handhelds) or one radio with two receivers, are required. These vessels must also maintain a watch on the designated Vessel Traffic Service (VTS) frequency, in lieu of maintaining watch on channel 16, while transiting within a VTS area. See 33 CFR §§ 2.36, 26, and 161; 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.308-309; NTIA: NTIA Manual Chapter 8.2.29.7

See the following for more information:* http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=m****ch

rwidman wrote:That was my belief also until someone on another forum posted a regulation stating that if the boat has a marine radio, you must monitor channel 16 while underway.

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Ah so, I learn something every day.

The relevant reg is 47 CFR 80.310 and it gives an "out" for those with a DSC radio who don't want to listen to all the calls and chit chat -*monitor channel 70.



*

Hiya,
** I was pretty sure there was a reg' regarding the monitoring of ch16 I just couldn't find it and I didn't want to belabour the point without substantiation.* Thanks Mr. Steppen.* Over and out.

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 10:37:02 AM

RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Mr. Carey.* I wish the Securite announcements DID give me the lat' and lon'.* The ones I have heard are usually "Sailboat in distress 3 miles south of Bumfart Point."* Now if I was a local, great, but if passing through ??????* Takes ME a lot longer to TRY to find that location than if I had the lat' and lon'*IF that location is on the chart at all.* Both would be better and double ditto on the local time.
Mr. Gonzo.* Never having had a CB radio, I don't have that habit to revert to and I suspect when you are broadcasting and recieving 5/5 any*"garbling" is moot but who knows when conditions deteriorate WHAT misenterpretations can occur.*
Mr. markpierce.* Regarding mandatory monitoring of 16.* The more ears listening in an emergency the better.* YOU may be next (I really hope not).

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RTI should have stated that it would be helpful if the CG would give both a relative position and the lat/long. A vessel might be practically sitting on the location, yet unable or unwilling to break out their chart.

*

Carey wrote:

*
RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Mr. Carey.* I wish the Securite announcements DID give me the lat' and lon'.* The ones I have heard are usually "Sailboat in distress 3 miles south of Bumfart Point."* Now if I was a local, great, but if passing through ??????* Takes ME a lot longer to TRY to find that location than if I had the lat' and lon'*IF that location is on the chart at all.* Both would be better and double ditto on the local time.
Mr. Gonzo.* Never having had a CB radio, I don't have that habit to revert to and I suspect when you are broadcasting and recieving 5/5 any*"garbling" is moot but who knows when conditions deteriorate WHAT misenterpretations can occur.*
Mr. markpierce.* Regarding mandatory monitoring of 16.* The more ears listening in an emergency the better.* YOU may be next (I really hope not).

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RTI should have stated that it would be helpful if the CG would give both a relative position and the lat/long. A vessel might be practically sitting on the location, yet unable or unwilling to break out their chart.

*


*



....and that was my original point...in addition to lat/long. *I have never heard them just give local reference points....I have never heard them give ANY local reference points...only lat/long.

Baker wrote:

*
Carey wrote

*

. The ones I have I have never heard them give ANY local reference points...only lat/long.

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They probably don't look at a chart either.

Can you key in a lat & lon on your plotter? I can't* Got me thinking . If I move the cursor around it usually shows the lat & lon Hmmm.

SD

*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 01:39:12 PM