Size Does Matter

Do any of you cruise solo?* What would be considered*a maximum length (trawler design) that could be operated (cruised) safely by one person?

Have cruised solo many times over the years, probably the longest trip was Seattle/Petersburg one year when the wife was held up in Seattle.

What makes WESTERLY easy to single-hand at 37 feet, is that the deck level is not far off the floats.* Access to the dock can be made easier with thrusters to hold you in position.*

If you*anchor out most of the time, a larger vessel is doable.

Thanks. I do plan on spending a lot of time on the hook. An old salt once said "buy the biggest boat you can afford'. Not sure if that holds true for soloing (is that a word?)

How the boat is operated will be the biggest factor , assuming a handy boat.

IF the engine controls are only a step away from where you would be to toss a brest line or short spring line I would say size doesnt matter much.

65 ft should be easy with perhaps 80ft as a limit.

A huge, high 3or 4 story bloat boat might be a hassle from the wind taking charge , at any size, but a more "normal" boat would not need the bow and stern thrusters of the Roomaran.

It definitely depends on how you are using it, your cruising grounds, etc. 50' can be no problem or it could be a nightmare. The problems are not typically in the cruising of the boat but in the DOCKING! Covered slips on an inland lake....heck- 110' houseboat is easy to solo. Coastal cruising, I'd be fine anything under 50', depending on the style and type of boat and docking situations. Not enough info to fully answer best? But- a 40' or below should be no problem though again, depends on your docking situation.

I will say this though....there are 2 lines of thought: A) Buy the biggest boat you can afford, and B) Buy the smallest boat you can live with. Biggest boat will cost more to run and maintain. Smaller boat is more economical and easy to run.

Thanks again. I plan on doing the ICW at least in one direction (depending on where I buy the boat), and the Bahamas and eventually points south. Do you think a boat with walk around decks (all around) would be advantages for docking purposes? I hope to spend as little time at the dock as possible.

Good and wide and level sidedecks are ideal for docking. Having a lower helm is potentially helpful, especially if it has opening doors to port/starboard allowing good access to side decks via the lower helm. If you don't have access doors to the side decks from the lower helm, the lower helm is basically useless in my opinion. A few friends of mine have the 53 hatteras motoryacht- they single hand that boat all the time. What you don't want if you are soloing is narrow side decks with poor access and difficulty moving around quickly fore and aft/port/starboard.

Hiya,
** Mr/Ms. KJ, welcome.* What Mr. Woodsong said.* Some folks prefer a sundeck model for lounging/hanging out and the larger aft cabin BUT everyone is different.* I prefer what Mr. Woodsong describes with ready access all around the decks without having to run up and down stairs.* Getting on and off the raised sundeck CAN pose problems at certain docks and may be somewhat more difficult to handle in windy conditions due to increased "sail" effect.
** *As you will find out, if you haven't already, is ANY boat you buy will be a compromise is some fashion.* Do a site search on what you're considering now (galley up/down, single/twin engine etc.) * What you find MAY help you in choosing "the" boat for you.
** Enjoy the chase.

I was looking at a Defever, it was (is) a really nice boat, but it has no lower helm at all. Kinda dropped it down on my list because of that. Would you buy a boat without a lower helm?

Woodsong wrote:

Good and wide and level sidedecks are ideal for docking. Having a lower helm is potentially helpful, especially if it has opening doors to port/starboard allowing good access to side decks via the lower helm. If you don't have access doors to the side decks from the lower helm, the lower helm is basically useless in my opinion.

* Port/starboard pilothouse doors and walkaround deck were two primary factors in selecting the Coot.

Click to expand...

*

When it gets rough, cold or wet, you will wish for a lower helm, you will also when docking or locking. My previous boat had narrow side decks I really like the wide walkaround decks on my present trawler.
Good luck,

KJ wrote:

I was looking at a Defever, it was (is) a really nice boat, but it has no lower helm at all. Kinda dropped it down on my list because of that. Would you buy a boat without a lower helm?

Click to expand...

Which Defever model were you looking at? *The 47 POC? *Most of the defevers have good lower helms but the 47 I know does not have side doors....some have the lower helm, some don't.

For your use of the bahamas, etc.- it's a tough call. *Most FL boaters say they never ever use their lower helm. *Our previous boats never had a lower helm and it always bugged me. *If it rains you can't see much of anything out of the eisenglass. *I LOVE our lower helm on our trawler and would not want to be without it. *So it really depends on personal preference and location. *If I was in a northern climate, a lower helm would be critical. *If I was strickly FL/warm places, well, maybe not so critical. *It depends on what you want and how you like to drive your boat. *Some want the lower helm for FL so they can sit in the air conditioned cabin all day! *

*

And Steve- I agree- we have the same boat- I LOVE the side decks on the Monk- amazing how easy a boat it is to get around!


-- Edited by Woodsong on Monday 6th of December 2010 01:23:46 PM

Hiya,
** Without a doubt, wherever you will be boating, get a lower helm.* JMHO

Thanks for the info. As for doing site research, I have done quite a lot and as far as I can tell you guys are the best resource for hands on knowledge, i.e. you've already been where I'm going. Two more inquiries have already been brought up. First, the pros and cons regarding up galley vs. down galley. Second, the sundeck design is really nice, however, I will be doing a lot of diving and I think a model with a cockpit would be essential. I was going to ask the scuba divers among you if a cockpit is essential, as I couldn't imagine hauling tanks and bc's up a high transom. I have seen some designs that have a cockpit and a sundeck, giving up space elsewhere I guess. Yes, buying/owning a boat is a study in compromise, but then again, most things in life are.

Hiya,
** Your profile doesn't say where you are but this may be what you're talking about:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1993/Carver-Cockpit-Motor-Yacht-2289293/Northport/NY/United-States

Yes, it is a Defever 47 POC. It's located in Newport, RI. Beautiful boat, but definitely no lower helm. I will be using the boat mostly in warmer locales, maybe fall in NY/NJ area, but then south. I am in California now, but will be relocating within the next year (retirement).
Thanks for the info on the Carver, however, not really my kind off boat.

Hiya,
* KJ.* Not suggesting the carver was for you.* It was just an example of a cockpit MY.

Question for Woodsong; you said that you have some friends that have a Hatteras 53. I was looking ay one that was really nice (sold pretty fast), but I read an article by a surveyor that said these boats were grossly underpowered. Did your friends ever say that they had an issue with power? I understand that it was (is) one of the more successful boats in its class, regardless of being notorious for blister problems.

KJ... as you can see, I did buy a trawler with only the upper helm. *All boats are compromises, and this was one of mine. *Handling the boat single handed is pretty simple until the wind is over 20 knots, but even then with a full keel, I'm surprised how straight it goes. *Doing spring lines is easy to amidships or the bow, while sterning in really gets you going up and down the ladder access to the veranda like Tarzan, and I've designed a trap door access to the pilothouse from a lower companionway that I may implement after I get soaked and cold a few times (it's actually only about 10 ft. of unprotected exposure to the pilothouse). *I like lower helms and wouldn't purposely choose a boat that didn't have one, it's just that this boat was never designed to have one, and by far, the bulk of my cruising will be FL and the Bahamas.

Thanks HH,*good info. Perhaps our paths will cross in those cruising grounds.

KJ,
The hatteras 53 is an endearing classic that has been always well regarded and accepted in the boating world as a very good boat, adequate power, and great layout. I would not say they are under powered at all but it depends on what you want to do with it.
if you are doing a lot of diving, though I am not a diver yet myself, a boat with a cockpit is just about essential. That could be a cockpit motor yacht like the Carver RT posted or another model. The 47 POC defever is a great boat (been on a few of them)- just probably not at all what you would want for a diving boat. Most of the 47 POC's have no davit for dinghy storage, they are an aft cabin, 3 staterooms, and if there is a lower helm, there is no side door access to the foredecks at all. In the 47 POC, personally, I'd prefer that boat without the lower helm as it is, in my humble opinion, fairly useless on a practical standpoint.
So that leaves you with a cockpit style boat. Options there are either a trawler with a cockpit like the marine trader 49, the defever 49, some grand banks, etc. etc. You have to ask yourself what your primary objective is on the boat....are you wanting a slow moving trawler that won't much get over 10 knots and enjoy great fuel economy, or do you want a boat that maybe has semi-decent economy at that speed but still allows you to go 20 knots or more when you feel like burning through a tank of diesel. You may want to give a serious look at the mid/late 1980's Bayliner 4588 or the newer 1995 and up Bayliner 4788's. They get decent fuel burn at hull speed, will get up and go if you want to do that, have a cockpit suitable for diving, etc., a large bridge with a davit for a dinghy, and a great pilothouse lowerhelm.
Do you want to go fast or slow? Fuel economy important or not, Twin engine or single? Lots of factors.

Our trawler is 58 ft, single 671, 6 ft draft and 40+ ton with a bow thruster and is easier to dock than most smaller boats, but it does take know the boat, practice and preparing. **Leaving the dock and when out in open water is easy.* Its the docking I still am working on as I tend to brush the dock on occasion. **Ok, routinely The main reason I can not see the dock over the 10 ft high bow that is 20 ft away, and the old eye sight is not what it use to be.* So my wife stand on the front deck giving me directions/orders like she usually does, so that not new!

Docking on the port side with the bow thruster, the port prop walk in reverse and thrusting the stern, I can almost move the boat straight to the side.* However, docking on the starboard side is a lot more difficult, but still doable.* Being the Eagle has a 6 ft draft and 40+ tons she does not move react or get blown around easily/quickly, so the is usually time to react.* We have only a Pilot house so we are close to the dock.* Step out the pilot house door, bridge gate, on to the rub rail and on to the dock.* The stern deck is level with the salon so the swim deck is just above the dock.* Makes getting on and off the boat easy.

We also watch the wind and tide coming and going.* In the summer the Thermals winds come up about 10:00 to noon and die down about 7 in the evening.* So I like to leave at 6 in the morning and try to arrive by noon as the winds and boat traffic are not up.* Also before entering a marina we set 5 fenders/side and lines so they are in easy reach.* Many times I will call a head and ask for dock assistance which is nice to have even if you do not need them.

Getting on/off the boat and being close to the dock*to single handing important when docking. *****
*

*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Monday 6th of December 2010 04:15:22 PM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Monday 6th of December 2010 04:15:56 PM

Regarding the lower helm.....the lower helm becomes less useful the bigger the boat gets....unless the builder built the lower helm with purpose(ie Pilothouse).

This is a generalization for sure but if you look at the some of the lower helms on some 4xft trawlers, it would be hard to steer down there in nothing but open water. The main reason is the site lines(parallax). You simply cannot see anything. If it is a galley down model(different issue), then the helm is behind the galley/dinette area and your face is about 20ft from the windows so your angle of site is very narrow and many times interrupted further by the bow if the boat has any sheer to it.

Regarding galley up/down.... I guess this is personal preference. But usually, when the galley is up it is up for a reason...to make more space forward of the salon. What are you gaining??? Are you gaining more space for the forward stateroom or head??? If that is the case and you are mostly cruising solo then you are salon space for nothing. Even if you have guests, accommodations up there are adequate and they will get it figured out. You don't want them to be too comfy anyway, right???...

Anyway...my .02

A slow boat with twins is fine for me.** I have been looking at some MTs, (the 47 Tradewinds and the 44 Labelle cockpit models in particular, however, I have read so much about the majority of these boats having water leakage problems, mostly around the windows and decks, that I am very leary about buying one.* A lot of the the pics in YW show major damage in those areas.* I'd love a GB if I could afford one. Again, Bayliner is not my kind of boat. There seems to be quite a few other makes available that don't seem to have these problems.* It's just a matter of the right configuration. That's why I'm counting on you guys for positive input.

1983 Marine Trader Sedan 36 single 120 Lehman
I've cruised my boat for years with my family of five and have also solo cruised many times as recently as two weeks in October. With one on board I have been reminded over and over why I prefer the sedan design:

Lower Helm- floats or docks are always just a second or two away. Site lines are completely unobstructed 360 degrees. Weather sucks, so what I'm inside in my pajamas drinking coffee and reading a book at the helm.

Sedan flybridge- huge!! I've had twelve up there, also makes for a great diving platform for the kids/grand kids. Always a breeze, great site lines.

Europa style- windows are covered no leaks! If it's raining our windows are open and we are still enjoying the air and views.

Galley up- A real plus when your solo! You don't want to go below anymore then necessary when your the only watch.

36 is snug with five, huge with one.

Ours is available.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1983/Marine-Trader-Sedan-2275519/Deltaville/VA/United-States

Daddyo, I agree with all that you said about the sedan style.* I had one like yours for six years* When single handing it was always from the lower deck* Easy access to everything* A Kleenex box jambed between the spokes of the wheel was my autopilot.* In good weather I could sit out front on the trunk cabin and still have quick access to the controls.* She had starboard side steering and backed to starboard.* Made for easy single handing docking.* Get a breast line to shore and you are there.* Step out of the transom door, and take care of the other lines.*

Thanks for the info.

Do you think a boat with walk around decks (all around) would be advantages for docking purposes?


Doesnt matter a bit.

As soon as ONE spring line is on the dock, the boat is under control , and will stay in position.

Wandering about and adding lines can be done at leisure, then the engine secured.

good to know that, thanks

When I bought my boat I assumed my kids, friends etc. would be lining up to go boating. Wrong assumption, so right away I learned how to single hand her. Probably 75% of my boat time is solo, and I love it. Because I have a single engine, I had a bow thruster installed and am glad I did, docking is no problem so far. The drawbacks to solo cruising are that it gets rather tiring after 5 or 6 hours at the helm plus there's no one to bs with. Go for it.
Mike
Baton Rouge