Convert trawler to motorsailer?

None of us are into boating to save money.
I don't raise my sails to save money on fuel. I do it to add stability. I do it it to reduce or cut out the engine noise. And I do it for fun. Especially on a long crossing when it might get a bit monotonous just pointing in the right direction, and waiting until you get there. You can play around with the shape to get maximum efficiency with every wind change, or just leave them do their thing and relax with a more stable and quiet ride.

I've never raised them for backup propulsion, but I enjoy the fact that they are there if ever required.

Regarding cost of sail rig maintenance; In my experience - it is minimal. Over the last two years, from memory I have spent a grand total of about $30 on maintenance and upkeep. (I've dropped a couple shackles into the water) That's it. Compare that to a second engine.

A motorsailer has much less stress on the sails and rigging in comparison to a "proper" sail boat, due to the lower sail area to weight ratio. This results in longer lasting equipment.

For those who want a turn key method of transportation on water with minimal fuss- a motorsailer is not for you.
Nor is it for those who want the most efficient wind driven machine on the water.
It is for those who enjoy comfort, like to tinker, and stay in touch with their environment while enjoying their boating experience.

My thoughts exactly-- couldn't have said it better.

It's the tinkering and experimenting I like, plus doing something different.

Each to their own, different things give things give others pleasure.

For 'myownself I have enough to work on. I did not even shed a tear when the lawn mower, weed eaters and all was sold.

cardude01 said:

My thoughts exactly-- couldn't have said it better.

It's the tinkering and experimenting I like, plus doing something different.

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OK, tinker with this idea.

You've got that huge hull extension that would be an ideal platform for the installation of a Diesel outboard. A 27 or 34 HP Yanmar would probably power you at 4 and 5 knots respectively. When you get down to the Islands, you could buy the Yanmar and do the bracket, tiller and fuel line for 10-12.5K or less. Probably another 10-12K for the paravane set-up later on.

Be sure to get pretty-colored sails to impress others because white (the most common boat coloring) is boring when overdone.

OK, here's the standard SP cruiser next to the PY cruiser with Mark's type of stay-sail rig.

Red sails are not for the lubbers at the bar , they have two good uses.

First the folks aboard dont get fried eyes from the bright white sails ,

and second the color is said to slow the UV destruction of the sail fabric.

healhustler said:

OK, here's the standard SP cruiser next to the PY cruiser with Mark's type of stay-sail rig.

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Way to go Larry . Those tan bark sails give it that salty look.

healhustler said:

OK, here's the standard SP cruiser next to the PY cruiser with Mark's type of stay-sail rig.

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Thanks Larry. That looks cool.

What are the advantages of sails with no battons/boom? Simplicity ?

healhustler said:

OK, tinker with this idea.



You've got that huge hull extension that would be an ideal platform for the installation of a Diesel outboard. A 27 or 34 HP Yanmar would probably power you at 4 and 5 knots respectively. When you get down to the Islands, you could buy the Yanmar and do the bracket, tiller and fuel line for 10-12.5K or less. Probably another 10-12K for the paravane set-up later on.

Click to expand...

I didn't know Yanmar made a diesel outboard. Interesting idea but not sure I want a big outboard hanging off the swim platform. Can't imagine how that would look permanently mounted.

Now if it could be stored on the pilothouse roof then deployed when needed that might work. Wonder how heavy?

Edit: just looked it up. 181lbs. Yikes.

healhustler said:

OK, here's the standard SP cruiser next to the PY cruiser with Mark's type of stay-sail rig.

Click to expand...

I love the tan bark sails as well.

But the loose footed mainsail has limited use. It stuggles even as a steadying sail when pointing into the wind.

In my biased opinion, I'd go with a gaff rigged mainsail on a similar sized mast. This would give about 25% more sail area and would keep the center of force down low. (important with limited ballast and shallow keel)

No need for a backstay if you run 2 sets of shrouds; one athwart the mast and the other about 2-3 feet aft.

cardude01 said:

Thanks Larry. That looks cool.

What are the advantages of sails with no battons/boom? Simplicity ?

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Simplicity, cost and no boom to hit your head on are the advantages. The 3rd reason may be a big one depending on the headroom in your forward cockpit.

Auscan is right. A Gaff Rig would keep the forces lower.

If you want a good old fashion MS which is not a bad thing, you won't be expecting sailing performance. The rig on this type of MS is meant for steadying get home and a little boost when the wind is right and the motor is pretty much always on. With the motor always running there is no point of talking tacking at 90 Degrees and 3k to wind. With a small rig you motor to wind with no jib and the main sail in tight just enough off dead on to prevent flogging. This usually gives a good sea motion and the little extra from the sail makes up for the sl angle off the wind. This is a technique I and many other cruising sailors commonly use when motor sailing to weather. If going down wind in a breeze no mainsail jib out and motor running. More modern motor sailors have moved toward a boat that can sail well without the motor running and have a lot of sailboat in there design. The older boats were motor boats with a short rig.

I'll chip in one more time.... there's a reason motorsailers are a very rare item. And I suspected that the two boats were NOT exactly the same under the waterline, again, for a reason... what's best for sailing is not best for motoring a hull designed to be a power boat.

healhustler said:

Auscan is right. A Gaff Rig would keep the forces lower.

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Perfect!

(other than that backstay design may be a problem).

healhustler said:

Auscan is right. A Gaff Rig would keep the forces lower.

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That gaff rig looks to have a higher center. Also, a gaff rig has more halyards.

eyschulman said:

... With a small rig you motor to wind with no jib and the main sail in tight just enough off dead on to prevent flogging. ...

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AusCan said:

None of us are into boating to save money.
I don't raise my sails to save money on fuel. I do it to add stability. I do it it to reduce or cut out the engine noise. And I do it for fun. Especially on a long crossing when it might get a bit monotonous just pointing in the right direction, and waiting until you get there.

Click to expand...

The ultimate motorsailer?

healhustler said:

Auscan is right. A Gaff Rig would keep the forces lower.

Click to expand...

Gaff rigs always have a lower centre of force when compared to a bermuda rig of the same sail area. The gaff rig in the photo has about 25% more sail.
Square rigged junks are even lower in centre of force.

I think some of us are getting too raped up in the sail part of the motor sailor concept. Why not just keep it a trawler with a mast that you can set some sail on. There are lots of trawlers like that and nobody gets bent out of shape trying to figure out if that is a sail boat or motor boat.

eyschulman said:

I think some of us are getting too raped up in the sail part of the motor sailor concept. Why not just keep it a trawler with a mast that you can set some sail on. There are lots of trawlers like that and nobody gets bent out of shape trying to figure out if that is a sail boat or motor boat.

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Keeping it a motor boat with a small sail is certainly an option, although it has few benefits other than a slight steadying capability. Paravanes would be a better choice.

AusCan said:

Keeping it a motor boat with a small sail is certainly an option, although it has few benefits other than a slight steadying capability. Paravanes would be a better choice.

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If the PV system can be worked into the mast for supports then the up side of each system would be available. There are times when PV are a PITA where a steady and boost sized sail rig would be preferred. There may also be use for both systems deployed at the same time where the stabilization plus a little boost come into play.

M-O-T-O-R S-A-I-L-E-R

Junk rig? ?

A modern sail rig that performs as folks would expect on a genuine sail boat is probably not possible.

However looking at the past 2500 years of commercial sail boats , shows that for a voyage quite a modest rig will suffice.

As a get home not much is required , IF the port selected is a broad reach or downwind.

50-60 miles a day is far better than a LLoyds contract salvage tow.

Folks interested in this concept might consider one of the new kites for boats and skip the mast and rig.

I wasn't aware of a kit sailing rig for a boat. That is an interesting "get home" idea. Fairly easy to store and deploy when needed. Supposed to sail at up to 40 degrees off downwind.

http://youtu.be/EGpgD78l7K4

Not a bad idea for a get home sail. (if home is downwind). They may have a slight stabilizing effect as well, although I would expect they would have much less than a fixed sail of the same size.




















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A fella can dream ....

Nordhavn 56MS

There are links on the site with pdf's of recent reviews. It looks like Nordhaven got it mostly right.

I love that boat!!

Motorsailers are the way to go for distance cruising, IMHO. My admiral has had enough of Rag & Stick though, so our answer is INFINITY. If it ever became a solo venture for me (please God no), I'd be looking at something like a Fisher 37 - or perhaps the more recent MT-37 from Morozov.
Unfortunately the N56 would be too big for single-handing.