Solomons to Florida - Newbie on ICW

It would be easy to get all my questions answered and get all kinds of tips and guidance and never post on the forum, but somehow that seems rude, like eavesdropping on private conversations. So I'm jumping right in and letting everyone know I'm reading and I really appreciate all your posts, past and present.

We've had Pleasure Island now for a couple of years, and I've posted on the forum before, for problems that have come up. 1988 Marine Trawler, 34', single diesel, cruise about 8 kts.

Now we are relocating, Solomons, MD to Palm Coast, FL (mm 802 on ICW). The trip down the ICW will be my first significant trip on the boat and I am really getting excited as the date nears. Two old sailing salts and myself will be doing the trip. Between the three of us we have about close to 100 years of boating experience (my God we are old), but 90% of it is sail. We don't everything, but we are confident in our skills. None of us have been on the ICW south of Norfolk.

It is not a sight seeing, take a day or two here and there trip, but it's not a delivery, get it there quick trip either. I have a 17 day window in my life to get the boat there, and our planning estimates a 13 day trip. I think that is doable as long as there are few unforeseen or major problems. Your opinions on the timetable are welcome.

I will continue to browse the forum, search for answers to my questions, and post when I can't find something. Your input will always be welcome and considered in our planning and execution.

Larry

Good luck and enjoy your trip!

Greetings,
Mr. 49. As you are well aware, a schedule is the LAST thing you want on any particular voyage. 800 odd miles over 13 days or even 17 days may be a bit ambitious unless you can pretty well guarantee that you will be traveling EVERY day. 50 to 60 miles PER DAY can be done but please allow time for, as you mention "...unforeseen or major problems...". I can easily see the shorter daylight hours, tides and weather events eating into your itinerary so be prepared to "store" your vessel if you run out of time and then continue to your destination at a later date. Other than that, have a great time.

Your time frame looks good, weather and how many hours a day you will be cruising will be the determining factor. Did that trip in reverse last spring, 13 days from Fort Myers to Norfolk. Days were longer in April and didn't miss any until I reached Norfolk, running 7+ knots. When will you leave as the days are very short now and temps can be quite cold? Are you marina hopping or achoring out?

Ted

O C Diver said:

Your time frame looks good, weather and how many hours a day you will be cruising will be the determining factor. Did that trip in reverse last spring, 13 days from Fort Myers to Norfolk. Days were longer in April and didn't miss any until I reached Norfolk, running 7+ knots. When will you leave as the days are very short now and temps can be quite cold? Are you marina hopping or achoring out?

Ted

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Ted is right about the shorter day light of winter. That plus the fact that you will probably average more like 6 1/2 or 7 knots with a 34'boat will make for few miles traveled. Seems ambitious to have a fixed 17 day window. Where in South Florida?

We plan to leave on March 20th. Sunrise will be around 0700; sunset 1930 for the trip, so we figure 10 to 11 hours per day travel time. 13 days for your trip from Ft. Meyers to Norfolk is encouraging, we are planning averaging 70 sm per day, and I am aware that the rule of thumb is to plan for 50. It is ambitious, but we have some flexibility. Not going to South Florida; Palm Coast is considered Northeast Florida, sits between St. Augustine and Daytona Beach.

Anchoring out or marina hopping? It's easy to plan 70 miles a day, but there will be stretches where you won't find a marina or achorages for 20 or 30 miles. So planning becomes very important. Also, while you may plan 8 knots, long stretches against strong head winds and an opposing tide may drop you below 5 knots ground speed for hours. Remember to factor in bridge and lock schedules as most of the ones you will be encountering are not on demand, or have restrictions for rush hour traffic.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is very doable for you. But a 70 mile planned day can end up less than 40 after waiting almost an hour at a couple of draw bridges and bucking a head wind, 2 to 3' chop and maybe some tidal currents. You may also get the day when everything seems to be going your way. Did almost 100 nautical miles one day. Ended up running 2 hours in the dark when a couple of anchorages didn't pan out. The most important take away from my trip was to have multiple alternatives whether anchoring or marina hopping. Would rather have a short day then ever have to run most parts of the AICW at night again.

Ted

Was planning on taking my trawler from Chrisfield MD to Fort Myers the first week of January. Had unrealistic expectations on the time required to paint the boat. So it's not going South this Winter. Anyway, had laid out my planned days and anchorages for the trip with most below 70 miles and only a couple above based on shorter day light hours. My plan had me passing Palm Coast on day 14 for what it's worth. Happy to share the information or answer questions on any of the sections.

Not trying to tell you how to run your boat. Planning a 7 knot cruise verses 8 knots may reduce your fuel consumption by half. From a planning stand point, there will be many areas where wake restrictions will require you to go slower. Planning to go slower and going faster when you can if you want, is a far more realistic approach. On most days on the AICW, planning a 7 knot cruise verses 8 knots will add less than an additional hour to a planned 70 mile day in my experience.

Ted

I have done that trip the last 3 years from early Dec to Christmas (plus days spent with family and friends that I didn't count in).

Average 6.3 knots with as little daylight as you can get and nasty weather too at that time of year...though March isn't much better and maybe worse wind wise...but warmer.

It takes me around 18 days but I can easily see doing it in 13 to 15 days...but that is moving everyday for most daylight hours if running 7 knots or less and a few tidal current rivers like the Cape Fear and the Waccamaw don't hurt you too bad (certainly North to South is better).

It also means bypassing fun places and running the full day to a reasonable destination . Not many short days planned into a 13 day schedule with a trawler.

With a tight schedule like that it is most certainly a delievery. And you need to treat it like one to make it in that time frame.

Run long days where you want to get any fueling you need to do done in the evening so there are no delays in the morning. Try and stock up with as many supplies as you can before you leave so you don't have to waste time going shopping very often. Bypass certain areas, like Georgia, by running offshore. Consider doing some over night runs when the weather permits. Work on timing your arrivals to bridges to minimize your wait times. Etc, etc.

It's really to bad you don't have more time to enjoy the trip.

A outside run if wx co-operates such as Cape fear to savannah or Jacksonville, give an easy overnight passage to get you back on track.

Wow, great information guys. We plan on anchoring out most of the time, fueling up twice when tanks should be around 1/2 full. I would be very interested in seeing your plan that puts you past Palm Coast on day 14. Planning 7 knots sounds like a smart idea and I am starting to look at stretching it to a planned 15 days. I hesitate to run outside as we are single engine. What's your opinion there? Three of us certainly could do an overnight, but I've flown single engine over open water and experienced "automatic rough"; not sure the added level of anxiety would be worth the savings in time.

LarryBud49 said:

... I hesitate to run outside as we are single engine. What's your opinion there? Three of us certainly could do an overnight, but I've flown single engine over open water and experienced "automatic rough"; not sure the added level of anxiety would be worth the savings in time.

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He started it not me. If the boats running as it should, with good weather, why not? Worst case you have to call Tow Boats or equivalent. The jump that SOF mentioned would be a good one to take some miles off.


PS Hobo is a single.

Unless you have some reason to doubt your single engine....running 20 to 40 miles offshore should be no big deal..if it is..why did you buy a single as you will be worried every time you pull away from the dock?

You can relax and do the ICW as planned and make it if your days vary between 50 and 75 miles...running offshore with an autopilot can be more relaxing..but not necessary unless you fall behind.

I would not plan on running off shore and here is why:

Weather: End of March is unpredictable at best as far as good weather. Weather windows are small that time of year. Being at the right place at the right time to take advantage of a 1 or 2 day nice weather Window is a big gamble. If you loose a day or 2 waiting to go outside, you might as well have kept going inside.

Boat size: Nothing against your boat. My guess is that you have little to no experience with your boat in the ocean, let alone at night. End of March is not the time to figure out the government blew the forecast and your getting your ass pounded in a 34' boat at night and any inlet you are planning to go in at night you have never been in before. You want to go offshore in your 34' boat at night for the first time, wait till June or July to make this trip.

Itenarary: This trip is very doable within your 17 day window. You can afford 3 or 4 blow days and will likely not need all of them as you are traveling inside. Heading outside may cause you to wait and then make a bad choice because your running out of time. Staying inside allows you to stick to a tough but manageable schedule. On all but the most horrible weather days you will be able to cruise with a few exceptions.

That's my opinion; it worth almost what you paid for it.

Happy to share my plan with you.

Ted

We had already decided to not run outside, for all the reasons you stated, Ted. I really would like to get to where Larry is with his confidence, though, I want to use the boat offshore some in good weather. Once in Florida I will pick some good weather days and head offshore out of St. Augustine. I admit to being a chicken and will take baby steps to get there, building my confidence in myself and my boat.

My plan (you would be foolish to follow it without doing your due diligence):

I use Active Captain. Everything I'm listing below can be found on Active Captain.

Day 1: Get to Norfolk. Stop at Top Rack Mile marker 9 +/- and top off fuel and water. Likely the cheapest fuel on the trip. This may not be attainable in one day from Solomons, MD. My plan was to leave Chrisfield at Sundown the night before and take a leisurely cruise down the bay and get to Norfolk early afternoon. Adjust your plan according to your comfort level. After fueling back track to the Great Dismal Swamp Canal MM 8 +/-. Anchor for the night at "Deep Creek Basin" MM 9 +/-. I choose the Dismal Swamp Canal as it's protected all the way to Elizabeth City, 2 draw bridges, and 2 locks. You can do day 2 in all but a hurricane it's so protected. The Albemarle and Chesapeake canal is fine but there are several draw bridges and more open water Sounds to navigate if the weather is bad.

Day 2: Need to be at the Deep Creek Lock MM 12+/- by 8:00am for the 8:30 lock through. The Lock operator will lock you through the lock and then open then open the Deep Creek Bridge for you. Follow his directions, channel 13 vhf. Call him as soon as you arrive so that he confirms you are there. Travel the canal (6 knot speed limit) 22 statute miles to the South Mill Lock. Need to be at the South Mill bridge by 1:00pm to lock through at 1:30pm. The Lock operator will move you through the bridge and then the lock. Chanel 13 vhf. Call the lock operator as soon as you arrive at the bridge. From the Lock to Elizabeth City is about 18 miles. Elizabeth City bridge opens on demand but restricted during rush hour. Lots of anchorages around Elizabeth City, pick based on wind direction. You have traveled 41 miles today, navigated 2 locks and 2 draw bridges to MM 50.

Day 3: Leave early and follow the AICW 76 miles to the Pongo river anchorage MM126. There are several anchorages there depending on wind direction. Be careful at MM 80 Alligator inlet. Draw bridge at MM84. Longer day 76 miles to MM 126

Day 4: Follow AICW 62 miles to Cedar Creek Anchorage MM 188.

Day 5: Follow AICW 57 miles to Mile Hammock Bay anchorage MM 245. You will be going through Morehead City which can be a busy place and stopping next to Camp Lejeune marine base. One Draw bridge MM 240.

Day 6: Follow AICW 64 miles to South Port NC MM309. Draw bridges at MM 261, MM 278, and MM 284. Pick a marina here as you will likely want to pump out, fill water and reprovision. Tina's Pocket at MM 306 is a good anchorage also.

Day 7: Follow AICW 77 miles to Sandhole Creek anchorage MM 386. Draw bridges at MM 347, MM371.

Day 8: Follow AICW 69 miles to Dewees Creek 1 MM 455. Study the charts carefully; lots or wrong turn possibilities.

Day 9: Follow AICW 65 miles to Fenwick Cut West or Racoon Island anchorages depending on wind direction MM 520. 2 bridges with 31'+ clearance. Be careful at Elliott Cut MM 472 +/-.

Day 10: Follow AICW 65 miles to Turners Rock anchorage MM 585. One bridge 30' clearance. One draw bridge MM 580.

Day 11: Follow AICW 68 miles go about 6 miles up the Darien River to the city of Darien MM 653. Free public docks with water and electric and food stores within a mile. Hell's Gate is MM 602. Be careful here!

Day 12: Follow AICW 58 miles to Cumberland Sound South anchorage MM 708. Several good anchorages there depending on wind direction. At MM 680 a 4 mile detour into Brunswick will get you to Ocean Petroleum. Usually the cheapest diesel south of Norfolk until you get to Mexico.

Day 13: Follow AICW 57 miles to Pine Island South anchorage MM 765. Draw bridge at MM 739. Tidal water flow in Sisters Creek MM 735 through MM 739 can be over 2 knots. Be prepared for the bridge at MM 739. Clearance closed is only 24'!

Day 14: Easy day to Palm Coast.

There are more bridges that may slow you down that I didn't list as they are normally open.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I would not plan on running off shore and here is why:

Weather: End of March is unpredictable at best as far as good weather. Weather windows are small that time of year. Being at the right place at the right time to take advantage of a 1 or 2 day nice weather Window is a big gamble. If you loose a day or 2 waiting to go outside, you might as well have kept going inside.

Boat size: Nothing against your boat. My guess is that you have little to no experience with your boat in the ocean, let alone at night. End of March is not the time to figure out the government blew the forecast and your getting your ass pounded in a 34' boat at night and any inlet you are planning to go in at night you have never been in before. You want to go offshore in your 34' boat at night for the first time, wait till June or July to make this trip.

Itenarary: This trip is very doable within your 17 day window. You can afford 3 or 4 blow days and will likely not need all of them as you are traveling inside. Heading outside may cause you to wait and then make a bad choice because your running out of time. Staying inside allows you to stick to a tough but manageable schedule. On all but the most horrible weather days you will be able to cruise with a few exceptions.

That's my opinion; it worth almost what you paid for it.

Happy to share my plan with you.

Ted

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I wouldn't wait for good wx to go outside. If he does have a favorable forecast and can jump outside at Cape Fear, he takes advantage of a .7-.9 kt favorable current, which in his boat is significant. If he stays close to shore, he rides this current that is inshore of the west wall of the gulfstream with plenty of bailout spots if so chooses.
Just because it is in the "Ocean" doesn't mean it is any more dangerous that ICW travel. Surely with his 100 years of seagoing experience aboard, someone has been at sea at night at least once?
As for it being March, yes it is the windiest month but you still get plenty of days of reasonable wx for coastal travel.

It took us 6 weeks to get from Daytona to Norfolk last summer, 2 1/2 months from Key West. We enjoyed the trip and smelled the roses along the way. Your schedule is agressive and certainly a delivery schedule IMHO. We had great wx the whole way, you likely won't.
We did the Dismal swamp route but won't southbound this summer, too many deadheads.
Make sure you watch your water supply, the marinas north of GA may have no water avail.

FWIW...

When we moved back north from Miami in 2001, we brought our previous boat up on a "leisurely delivery" schedule. 17 days total, but including a 2-day layover at Thunderbolt, so the crew could do some sightseeing in Savannah.

Two offshore runs at speed, good weather, one from FLL (Dania) to Conch Bar, the other from Wrightsville Beach to near Beaufort. Then it turned out the Chesapeake was glass-smooth on the final day, so we compressed 3 planned days into one.

Didn't seem like we were rushed, but then again Savannah was the only break.

-Chris

Hi Larry -
We bought our boat in Solomons. On April 20th, 2010, I fired up the engine at 4am to pull out and promptly stopped in the Patuxent River because it was my first time with the new boat, dark, unknown waters, and unfortunately enthusiasm does not trump lack-of-experience! (I was really excited)

That said,
Day one: 5:00am to 8:00pm Solomons to Norfolk (Hospital Point anchorage) with a fuel stop in Smith Point. 15 hours. Clear weather.

Day two: 5:00am to 7:00pm Norfolk to Tuckahoe Point (anchorage), lower end of Alligator River. 14 hours. Fuel stop in Coinjock NC. Clear weather.

Day three: 6:00am to 3:00pm Tuckahoe Point to Havelock NC, berthing port. Rain and Wind. Ugh!

With my 35 Marine Trader and single Lehman, I plan for 7 knots and always manage slightly better. 15 hours = 105 miles. A full day, rarely repeated.

I study Active Captain and look for words like "obstruction", "haul out", and "bent shaft" and such. I make a paper "pre-log" of times I think it's going to take and predicted obstacles (shoals/obstructions/bridge schedules).

Then I just follow down my pre-log as I go through new waters. I check fluids and my bilge quite a bit. And I run a bit paranoid on engine noise but I've not been let down by the Lehman in 5 years.

Here you can see my Admiral suffering as she is chained to the autopilot on day one.

Here's a good video log running the opposite way from the west coast of FL to the Chesapeake. It should give you a good idea of some trip detals..

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s34/final-voyage-mischief-14997.html

Have done the ICW several times, always from South East Mass. to Cape Canaveral,Fl. Have done it in fast and slow boats. You have some very good advise here.


You are one a delivery schedule, if you want to maintain that schedule, do not fool yourself by thinking you are not on a delivery schedule. Your schedule is doable but you have to be active in your daily planning as well as your long term planning. You may fall behind, if so, and weather permits go offshore. The ocean is not a thing to fear, just bad decisions.


Good luck, keep us posted. Next time plan a slower trip there is so much to see and do.


John

Hello,
I just did that trip but we left from Baltimore and crossed FLA to the west coast. We lost 3 days due to weather between Baltimore and Charleston and three days to weather and sickness between Charleston and Punta Gorda. We fueled at TopRack in Norfolk - at the time, the cost was $2.98. What is the draft on your boat? The further you go south, we ran into 6knot zones and slow-no wake zones that "adjusted" our timing. We had to time our transit of several low spots with inflowing tides.
We found using Skipper Bob ICW manuals were a big help, along with Active Captain. We topped our fuel at the Vero Beach Municipal marina - $2.82 (included all taxes).
Enjoy the trip but it most certainly is a delivery run.


Henry

You don't wait for weather to jump outside with a slow boat. You take advantage of the opportunity if it presents itself. That said, your nuts if you don't jump out and bypass Georgia if you can.

If you're scared to run a few miles or so offshore then that is your choice. But I would not hesitate to do it in a reasonably well founded single engine vessel in good weather. Just check the engine space every hour.

Sounds like every trip is it's own trip and ours will be, too. Lots of good advice and every bit of it will be considered. Will be happy to post our progress.

I have done that trip four times in the 34 foot marine trader. You will save time if you anchor out and do not go into the Marinas. your speed and your time estimate is a bit optimistic.running from sunup to sundown, in December it was a 21 day trip, heading north in the spring it was a 15 day trip. That is time for no fun just go go go. I think my average speed on a total of ten thousand miles was just over 6 miles an hour

A lot of great information, I will only add; all the best for safe passage!

Hey larrybud49 we have traveled the east coast ICW six times in the past eight years.
As mentioned by HenryD the best advice I can give you is to purchase Skipper Bob's Anchorage Guide.
By the title is sounds like just anchorages, that is not the case.
It takes you along the ICW with information and advice on every hazard and shallow spot.
It also includes information on anchorages. But the real value in the publication is all the other information it contains. Like a series of way points to build a short 200 yard route that bypasses a shoal in the middle of the ICW.
If you are interested in marinas then you can also pick up Skipper Bob's Marina Guide.
But the Skipper Bob's Anchorage guide is the real life saver for your ICW transient.
Don't be fooled that it is only a 1/2" thick publication. The author was an engineer.
Lots of information in an organized fashion.
We lost the man Skipper Bob a few years ago. His publication is being updated now by another company.
He is missed.

We do have the current Skipper Bob's Anchorage Guide and we have been using it in addition to the Waterway Guide. Very different publications, both very handy and they complement each other. I do find Bob's easier to use and it will most likely be our primary planning aid.