Your Experience in Really Rough Weather?

Wxx3 said:

Not wanting to sound too much like a smart ass, (it's the Prosecco talking), but if I wanted to run a ferry service between New Zealand and Tonga, the Dashew is the perfect boat.

Ok I see that.

I'll keep out in mind when I decide to start a new career.

In the meantime, I prefer a boat that I can live on, won't sink under seasonal conditions plus a few standard deviations and I can afford to maintain and put fuel in her.

That simple list reduced to the kadey Krogen.

And as for wx forecasts, as I've said many times, I'm not depending on the accuracy of a wx fcst to wash the car, let alone anything else.

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I like your common sense approach, and you've got the experience to prove it.

I hate to be harbinger of bad news, but.......

The Dashew designs are based on a sailboat hull design. I'm totally ignorant about sailboats, thank God, but I do know this: a sailboat is designed to pitch 'UP' over a wave so that the hull does not get stopped, rather than cut through the waves like a powered motorboat.

So....
sailboat designs pitch a lot in rough weather.


Here's the proof, this video shows the Dashew doing just that:

http://youtu.be/tXINH9rDHqg


I'm with Wxx3 on this: it's a motorboat hull form for me every time!

Rusty, how much pitching do you think any 64' boat would do at that speed in those conditions? A 42 KK would be pretty rough too.

I want a buoyant bow that stays out of the water lots, without the addition of bulbs or other additions. Notice the motion of the boat at the outside steering station? Not so bad.

The thing with a Dashew, you can cross oceans at 11 knots and go from New Zealand to the U.S. Can't do that in a KK (7 knots?). I think I read that the Dashew can do 2 or 3 Atlantic crossings without refuelling? Crazy range and efficiency.

Anyway, to each his own. I'd have a 64 in a heartbeat, should I be an oligarch...

Xsbank said:

Rusty, how much pitching do you think any 64' boat would do at that speed in those conditions? A 42 KK would be pretty rough too.

I want a buoyant bow that stays out of the water lots, without the addition of bulbs or other additions. Notice the motion of the boat at the outside steering station? Not so bad.

The thing with a Dashew, you can cross oceans at 11 knots and go from New Zealand to the U.S. Can't do that in a KK (7 knots?). I think I read that the Dashew can do 2 or 3 Atlantic crossings without refuelling? Crazy range and efficiency.

Anyway, to each his own. I'd have a 64 in a heartbeat, should I be an oligarch...

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The range is very impressive.
Is that because it's a low resistance sailboat hull?

As I understand it a sailboat hull pitches because it has a very broad bulbous mid section with massive buoyancy: the hull rotates around this mid section resulting in the 'up ' pitching movement when it meets a wave, in contrast to a motorboat hull that is virtually parallel for its entire length which makes the bow section cut through the wave on a more level trim angle.

...if this is a load of bollocks, please feel free to make corrections!

Rustybarge said:

...if this is a load of bollocks, please feel free to make corrections!

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Good one

Having been on several FPBs and many sailboats, I fail to see any similarities. Maybe the 225 lb anchor? About 8 years ago there was a very long treatise on setsail covering the FPB design, tank testing and safety concerns.

But, some feel their Jaguar looks like a Tesla, that is pretty much where the similarity ends.

healhustler said:

Well, there was that one day heading out Jupiter Inlet.

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This makes me so happy! Hahahaha. It's Free Bucky!

As far as rough water sailing goes, I was a young and stupid sailor not too long ago. Sometimes I still am. I remember being excited by the idea of sailing through some big seas. I've seen the movies, and it doesn't look that bad, right??

If you could do it for a few hours, it would be fine. After that though, the novelty wears off pretty quickly and it becomes a real nuisance. Simple things like tying your shoes become supremely obnoxious. It's like there's somebody shoving you around all the time. A few days of that can be really maddening.

sunchaser said:

Good one

Having been on several FPBs and many sailboats, I fail to see any similarities. Maybe the 225 lb anchor? About 8 years ago there was a very long treatise on setsail covering the FPB design, tank testing and safety concerns.

But, some feel their Jaguar looks like a Tesla, that is pretty much where the similarity ends.

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225 lb anchor .......!

No wonder it pitches.

Rustybarge said:

As I understand it a sailboat hull pitches because it has a very broad bulbous mid section with massive buoyancy: the hull rotates around this mid section resulting in the 'up ' pitching movement when it meets a wave, in contrast to a motorboat hull that is virtually parallel for its entire length which makes the bow section cut through the wave on a more level trim angle.

...if this is a load of bollocks, please feel free to make corrections!

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okay here's a correction...


A sailboat going really fast in big sea, but not pitching at all? Perhaps pitching has something to do with speed and course, as well as hull form?

Tad Roberts said:

okay here's a correction...

A sailboat going really fast in big sea, but not pitching at all? Perhaps pitching has something to do with speed and course, as well as hull form?

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I'm just wondering if the sail helps damp the pitching?
Would that help explain the extra pitching movement in the Dashew FPB?

Rustybarge said:

I'm just wondering if the sail helps damp the pitching?
Would that help explain the extra pitching movement in the Dashew FPB?

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I'd guess the owners, designer and builder are unaware of the FPB excess pitching motion you are referring to. Speaking of pitching motion, nice to see Madison Bumgarner named SI's Sportsman of the Year.

If you're a navy sailor or merchant marine you don't really have a choice between going into that stuff or sipping an adult beverage. If, like me, you're a fair weather sailor (now) you opt for the adult beverage.

sunchaser said:

I'd guess the owners, designer and builder are unaware of the FPB excess pitching motion you are referring to. Speaking of pitching motion, nice to see Madison Bumgarner named SI's Sportsman of the Year.

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Yatching & Motorboat monthly did a test of the Dashew a few years ago, and reported 'alarming pitching' in rough waters off the Isle of Wight in England; but I seem to remember it was in very bad sea conditions.

I will try and dig up a relevant copy of the article; it's somewhere onboard the boat under all the other junk!

windmill29130 said:

I remember taking that picture from my dinghy.

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And I appreciate that you hung around long enough to catch me as I was surfing back in.

Rustybarge said:

I'm just wondering if the sail helps damp the pitching?
Would that help explain the extra pitching movement in the Dashew FPB?

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If you subscribe to "radius of gyration" physics and Newton's Laws of Motion, the rig would exaggerate the pitching.

Powerboats can pitch too....Strait of Gibraltar I believe[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

healhustler said:

And I appreciate that you hung around long enough to catch me as I was surfing back in.

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You should consider renaming your boat Lucky-Bucky

Rustybarge said:

Yatching & Motorboat monthly did a test of the Dashew a few years ago, and reported 'alarming pitching' in rough waters off the Isle of Wight in England; but I seem to remember it was in very bad sea conditions.

I will try and dig up a relevant copy of the article; it's somewhere onboard the boat under all the other junk!

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The MB&Y latest article I am familiar with was on Greywolf an FPB 64. Look up the youtube video, nothing but raves as to how nicely it handled in 4 meter seas.

The sailboat in TAD's vid was not pitching because it was running abeam to the seas.

Many (Many) conversations ((and arguments)) are had concerning differing perceptions and expectations of (not just how, but how good) different hulls perform. Hard chine, soft chine, round bilge, flat bottom etc etc etc. We all find out and learn about what suits each of us to our own desires. Nobody should make decisions based upon what they read in a blog.

The OP and several posts since reflect a fine tradition of people learning what they like. Heck, even a 'Jupiter Bar crossing' make some KK wanderers feel good about their fine vessel! In the end, it is what makes you comfortable.

But, it is what and how we each make our experiences that teach us what and how much we want to live through that makes us form the idea about what hull form we will use. It was not too long ago that I felt I would not set foot on a vessel less than 500 tons at sea. Now I Think in fine weather a 12 ton vessel is fine. But with the SO aboard, I think a 110000 ton cruise ship is in order. It all depends upon the circumstances.

Personally I would not set foot on one of these mentioned 'wonder yachts' unless for an across the bay jaunt. Just MHO. Unless you're buying it for me!

>I'm just wondering if the sail helps damp the pitching?<

The mast does.

Any weight aloft will reduce the rate of change in the boats motion.

The old fishing schooners would haul an anchor aloft to slow the rate of pitch and roll in a blow.

YES the boat would roll further , but the slower stop and reversal gave the better ride, esp if the boat were empty.

None !

We built a boat able to ...survive( normally ...) at this type of weather.
But (!?) until now our experience of such (very ) bad weather is ...none.
We are lucky enough to escape before, or waiting nicest weather at anchorage.


In very bad situation you will needs a boat able to 'self-righting" and air-bag or like Dashew : multi points harness

"Passagemaker" cherchez l'erreur ! - Trawler long-cours

cappy208 said:

... It was not too long ago that I felt I would not set foot on a vessel less than 500 tons at sea. Now I Think in fine weather a 12 ton vessel is fine. But with the SO aboard, I think a 110000 ton cruise ship is in order. It all depends upon the circumstances. ...

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I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!

Mark that pic in post #80 is absolutely stunning. The contrast is so extreme.

manyboats said:

mark that pic in post #80 is absolutely stunning. The contrast is so extreme.

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photoshop!

Eric, that was two-days east of NYC with 40-50-foot stern-quartering waves. Some of the waves smacked against the deck-6 (third deck above the waterline) dining room windows. Shortly after the photo was taken, trays, plates, bowls, cups, etc. crashed to the floor and at least one little-old lady's chair tipped over with her. I wrenched my knee which required a year to heal (no more pain).


I don't know how to photoshop. Life is exciting/interesting enough. Took the photo on November 11, 2010 on one of NCL's Jewel-class ships (either Pearl or Jewel).

Tad Roberts said:

If you subscribe to "radius of gyration" physics and Newton's Laws of Motion, the rig would exaggerate the pitching.

Powerboats can pitch too....Strait of Gibraltar I believe[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


View attachment 35545

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Yikes, I'm hoping to retire there in 2015.

There's meant to be fantastic tuna fishing in the straights of a Gibraltar;
NOTE TO SELF:Buy sea sickness tablets!

. The sailboat in TAD's vid was not pitching because it was running abeam to the seas.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA

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I noticed that too!

. >I'm just wondering if the sail helps damp the pitching?<

The mast does.

Any weight aloft will reduce the rate of change in the boats motion.

The old fishing schooners would haul an anchor aloft to slow the rate of pitch and roll in a blow.

YES the boat would roll further , but the slower stop and reversal gave the better ride, esp if the boat were empty.

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I agree: the more weight aloft will damp the roll roll and pitch motion and make the pitch cycle softer.

FF said:

The mast does.

Any weight aloft will reduce the rate of change in the boats motion.

The old fishing schooners would haul an anchor aloft to slow the rate of pitch and roll in a blow.

YES the boat would roll further , but the slower stop and reversal gave the better ride, esp if the boat were empty.

Click to expand...

Not quite. Increased weight aloft does not necessarily lessen the roll pitch or yaw. It simply changes the frequency or length of the oscillation. This is dependent on what the boat 'needs' for a better ride. There isn't a 'one cure for all' remedy. It depends if the boat is tender, stiff or (like your example) extremely full of ice and fuel on way to fish or returning full of fish and no fuel. Most yachts don't operate on these conditions.

Steve said:

I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!

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You and I both Steve, but this is an interesting thread.

Rustybarge said:

I like your common sense approach, and you've got the experience to prove it.

I hate to be harbinger of bad news, but.......

The Dashew designs are based on a sailboat hull design. I'm totally ignorant about sailboats, thank God, but I do know this: a sailboat is designed to pitch 'UP' over a wave so that the hull does not get stopped, rather than cut through the waves like a powered motorboat.

So....
sailboat designs pitch a lot in rough weather.

Here's the proof, this video shows the Dashew doing just that:

http://youtu.be/tXINH9rDHqg

I'm with Wxx3 on this: it's a motorboat hull form for me every time!

Click to expand...

I had to read your post a few times, as I looked at that video, I want sure what they were selling, but whatever it is, I'm not buying!

And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.

Steve said:

I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!

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I have lots of rough water experience in sailboats and very little with my trawler and would also like to keep it that way

Wxx3 said:

And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.

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Maybe if your vessel could get above 5 knots in a 35 knot breeze with 3 meter 8 second seas there would be some spray. I clearly understand though Richard, based upon your knowledge of the Dashew line and their unacceptable sea keeping abilities, you will not be buying a FPB.