Use of saloon roof

My trawler is under construction overseas, so I'm limited as to photographs (reference Eric's/nomadwilly's recent post).* In recent weeks my posts have included under-construction photos.* Here is one showing the aft end of the saloon deck.* Note the low rails, ladder, and hatch opening (hatch top*not*yet installed)*allowing standing entrance/exit to the stern-side exit of the saloon (saloon floor is lower than the deck).*

I agree with the builder that the saloon roof isn't a good place to*be while underway since the railing is only about knee/lower-thigh*high.* It should be good for sunning while at anchor/marina, however,*with some low-seat chairs.**

The saloon roof*could be used*for some storage while underway such as a rolled-up inflatable dinghy.* A possible dinghy, hard or soft, is to be decided.*

I can't see storing a hard dinghy up on the saloon roof.* It would be too difficult to handle over the rails.**Also, a*high crane is too "commercial" in appearance*and would subject the dinghy to greater swinging movement*since it would have to be elevated quite high.**Further, the saloon roof needs to be kept relatively clear to have a 360-degree view from the pilothouse.

Thus,*for a hard*dinghy. davits on the stern would seem to be the better solution.*

A staff to fly the national colors should be appropriate mounted on the stern saloon railing, don't you think?




Where am I going wrong?

-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 18th of October 2010 02:15:04 AM

Where am I going wrong?

The question is really what waters will you mostly be in . And what happens when caught out?

A stout set of davits is probably the best and simplest way to carry a dink inshore.

Stops theft , and no breakaway loss or flooding from towing.

Also a fine place for bags of trash if you dont get to shore for a while.

The problems are two. The extension aft sometimes makes docking a problem for both visibility , or line handeling, the big problem is taking a wave in the dink.

Davits have to be really heavy duty to hold the many hundreds of pounds of water in a flooded dink.

Carried FWD on the fore deck , with a cover is not a big deal.

The crane today is a simple doubled aluminum tubing with a 12v jeep bumper winch.

Stick the crane in its socket Port or Stbd , plug in and away she goes.

FF

*

*
If you carry the dink on the roof the rear view is blocked anyway, so I added two 6 ft X 3 ft storage boxes on the each side of the salon roof. We dont have*a dirt*storage area.* *One box is to store paints, thinners, epoxies, vanish and misc hand power tools and the other stores deck/lounge chairs, dink cushions, live, vests.* Things that are not too heavy that I dont want stored inside the boat and/or bulky items.* We also have a 6 ft X 3 ft store box on the front deck for dock lines, anchor stuff and deck chairs.* I have been thinking about adding another storage box on the other side of the front deck.*

We carry the dink on the salon roof that is over the back deck* and with the storage boxes reduce the open area/space of the railings, so the area is somewhat enclosed/protected.* Makes a great place for sitting/laying out in the sun as most of the wind is blocked and a good work area**When we are way from the dock no one is allowed on the roof for safty reasons.**

Have you thought about extending*the roof over the stern deck?** We have our stern deck canvas enclosed which makes another covered usable area. **Then you could also store the dink. **
*
*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Monday 18th of October 2010 04:00:11 PM

Phil Fill wrote:


*



Have you thought about extending*the roof over the stern deck?** We have our stern deck canvas enclosed which makes another covered usable area. **Then you could also store the dink. **

Click to expand...

There isn't headroom for a roof extension,*and a dink on the rear deck would block access to the saloon's stern door.* Also, the more stuff stored on the saloon roof, the less 360-degree visibility from the pilothouse.* All-around visibility from the pilothouse was one of the essential characteristics wanted for the boat.* Dink on the foredeck/forward-cabin roof would block forward visibility.* ...* *Uninflated dink at the rear of the saloon roof or inflated or hard dink on davits seem to be the only alternatives.

*

It looks a very similar set-up to Pioneer. We keep an inflatable on the coach-roof and have a mast and boom to hoist it, complete with outboard, although the outboard is not mounted in the*these pics.
*
FF is right, there are lots of simple tubular cranes available, both hand and 12v operated, which will do the job easily. In hindsight, such a crane would be easier to use than our mast and boom - maybe an upgrade. I should have left a gap in the rails alongside the dinghy.

Re visibilty aft, we have aft windows in the pilot house and have the inflatable stored on the stbd side as the helm is on the port. We have a stern station for backing into the slip*and chasing fish!

-- Edited by Bendit on Monday 18th of October 2010 05:27:22 PM

-- Edited by Bendit on Monday 18th of October 2010 05:30:08 PM

Forgot about boomless staysail rig which makes moving large objects on and off saloon roof seem*problematic.** See this other Coot ..





-- Edited by markpierce on Tuesday 19th of October 2010 01:11:24 PM

Ya know. I have a raised pilot house or the wheel house as I call it. I have back windown with a clear view, but ya know what?
I seldom use it. I find it better to stick my head out the door. The wheel house has a door port and starboard only 2 steps to either door.
What are you looking behind you for anyway. Some go fast boat trying to pass you. if you are at sea should be lots of room.

Looking back over the salon roof I can't see the stern because of the salon roof anyway.
So I'm always poking my head out for a look see or looking out the back door so's I can see the stern. (Note to self . Rig a camera)

anyway just my 2 cents

SD

You could step/go up which many boats have done.* I mean the pilot house is above the roof so why not a stern roof?* Are you planning on having a mast and boom?*


*
I agree seeing the stern is not used that much.* I use the radar to see/watch for boats from behind.* The only time I really look is if I am going to turn change directions, then I stick my head out the door.* I think boats should have blinkers and going astern/stopping lights?*


******


*

Stern roof would hinder access to saloon roof and block*rearward view from pilothouse.* I'm planning a mast but the sails will be boom-less.

Will be operating in waters that at times are crowded, and boats will be moving faster than me from behind.* Need close to 360-degree visibility, but realize it will never be complete, especially for overtaking smaller craft passing to port.* I don't trust other boaters to sound proper horn signals.

I can anticipate*situations where a 90-degree turn*to port might*be accomplished by making a 270-degree turn to starboard (helmsman's position on starboard).

IT may seem basic , but one can mount a mirror like a car rear view , to ease looking aft more often.

Hiya,
** MP, I thank you for using, what I consider the proper word saloon instead of salon (PC weenie alternative) to describe the living/relaxing*area of a vessel.

The owner of this coot has a rear-deck awning and davits carrying a soft dighy:




Notice awning needs to be near the height of the saloon-roof railing to permit headroom on the deck.*

markpierce wrote:

The owner of this coot has a rear-deck awning and davits carrying a soft dighy:

Notice awning needs to be near the height of the saloon-roof railing to permit headroom on the deck.*

Click to expand...

Just remember to pull the plug*if you hang it on davits.* Just three inches of water*in a dinghy with inside*demesions*of 2.5' x 5' (a pretty small dindgyn actually) adds little over 190 pounds of weight to*those davits.


Larry/Lena
La Paz, BCS, MX

*

Mark,
That Coot is Very over driven. Look at the wake aft.

RT
I thought it was propperly "salon"? Thought we'd been through that.

Hiya,
* Mr. Willie.* You call it as you wish.* I will do so as well.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/saloon

nomadwilly wrote:
RT
I thought it was propperly "salon"? Thought we'd been through that.

Click to expand...

According to Wikipedia (if you give them any credibility) a saloon is, among other things, a central room between rows of staterooms.* In other words, a saloon is a place.

A salon is actually a social*event, not a place.

So RTF*is correct--- the central or main cabin in our boats is a saloon, not a salon, although you might be able to hold a salon in it

*

nomadwilly wrote:

Mark,
That Coot is Very over driven. Look at the wake aft.

Click to expand...

Perhaps that Coot has*the turbocharged, 130 hp model.

Seahorse Marine: "The John Deere 85HP (cruise speed 7 kts) is a no cost option.* The 130HP turbo model (cruise speed 8 kts) is $5,000 extra. Personally I think the turbo model makes the Coot more livelier and is actually quieter."

My answer: "No thanks."

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Tuesday 19th of October 2010 09:52:36 PM

"Saloon = an elaborately decorated public apartment or hall (as a large cabin for social use of a ship's passengers)"

Not there yet:




-- Edited by markpierce on Wednesday 20th of October 2010 09:19:35 AM

OK guys I give up. SALOON it is whisky or no. I thought "saloon" was like a bar or whisky serv'in tavern. *As in wild west guns and whisky. Balloon, Saskatoon, Loon, Macaroon, Coon, spoon, noon, loom and Moon all are pronounced like the wild west bar * * ...saloon * * as in saloooooooon. *Oh well. Some things are'nt the way the're supposed to be. But I will conform * * * ...while whining.*

Mark,
I know it's vogue to be green these days but your saloon has taken green to an extreme.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 21st of October 2010 11:14:31 AM

And isn't a 'salon' where the admiral gets her hair done?

I read somewhere long ago that either saloon or salon was acceptable for the main cabin of a vessel. I prefer salon, but that's me.*

The original saloon was a large place on a boat for dining, meeting, etc. Bars started decorating nautically, and called themselves saloons after the boats. At some point when women became more involved in boat buying, the brokers and sales people started calling them salons. They've both been used for so long that either is acceptable, but I have a saloon on my boat.

Yeah...to me a salon is where ladies go for a hairdo.

Is there any reason why you have to be stuck with only knee high rails...why you can't specify they be higher?

And while I have the floor...

The last couple of posts in this discussion illustrates why the boating industry began referring to a vessel's main social cabin as a "salon" instead of by its
traditional name "saloon." The name change began showing up in marketing literature in the late 1980s, which was when the marine industry began targeting anyone with a pulse as a potential boat owner. Boat builders assumed (correctly) that the majority of Americans would not know--and obviously still don't--that drinking establishments became known as "saloons" BECAUSE that was the name for any large public room used for a specific purpose, i.e. drinking or dining, including the main social cabin on a ship.

In dictionaries published before 1990, the #1 definition of "saloon" was
"any large room or hall designed for receptions, entertainments etc,
specifically the main social cabin of a passenger ship." "A place where
alcoholic drinks are sold to be drunk on the premises" was all the way
down to the third definition. That "drinking establishment" is now the
#1 definition in current dictionaries and any reference to a saloon as
the main social cabin of a ship has been moved the bottom of the list or
no longer gets ANY mention is just further evidence of the dumbing down
of our society.

So while it once was properly and proudly a vessel's "saloon"...now,
sadly, it has correctly become her "salon."

Another sad thing...according to Chapman's, it is no longer correct to
refer to a vessel as "she"...a boat is now just an "it." To which Isay... Ohhhhh PHHHFFFFBBBTTT!

Well I say to Chapman's.... Sheeeeee, it.

Hiya,
** Headmistress, I stand corrected as to "modern" usage of salon vs. saloon-thanks,*I think, or maybe not.* As a result of your informative, yet distubing, post I shall not attempt to correct persons using the word salon*to describe the saloon but shall continue to use , what I feel, is the correct term.
** Boats no longer a SHE?????**Heresy I say!!!!!!* Surely be to goodness SOME things should be sacrosanct.
** Heck, I think I'll do the dishes in the kitchen, hang the towel up on the wall, check if there's any water in the basement, go to the toilet,*go upstairs, close the windows, go outside, sweep the floor, lock the door, step of "it" onto the patio and go for a road trip.
** Before doing so, one must examine the automobile.* Secure the bonnet and boot, check the tyres and make sure there is enough petrol.
** Now I know why Fred Flintstone had a "gay old time".....sheesh!**If Wilma Slaghoople only knew before she married him

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 24th of October 2010 09:49:01 AM

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 24th of October 2010 10:29:13 AM

I agree w the salon thing if for no other reason than the phonetics involved dictate that oo should be pronounced as in Racoon.

And the "she" thing I see as sort-of a 17th century silly thing like wigs on judges but it would be awkward do anything different.


Well Peter B, it looks like you and the hair doing girls do go to the same place. Ha Ha

Nah....I'm stickin' with saloon....I don't give a tuppeny damn what any US dictionary says, the US is not the final arbiter on the subject of English like what it is meant to be spoke, or spelled, b'gorrah.

Peter B wrote:"I don't give a tuppeny damn...."

Click to expand...

Whoa! Remember, this is a family site!

*

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question about the subject that actually started this thread 3 pages ago:*

Mark said, "I agree with the builder that the saloon roof isn't a good place to*be while underway since the railing is only about knee/lower-thigh*high."

To which I asked if there's any reason why you have to accept knee high railings?* You're the customer (guy with checkbook)...so why can't you specify higher railings?* Or why wouldn't you want to?