Selling the farm???

ksanders · Nov 24, 2014

I recently read what I thougt was a very good article in Passagemaker titled "selling the farm".

It was fantastic and exactly opposite what I thought would come from a cruiser devoted magazine.

It laid out several Very Good reasons why it might not be the best of ideas for a couple to sell out and buy a cruiser.

What I thought was great was that it recommended buying a more modest boat and keeping your land based home as somewhere to go to when you're done with full time cruising.

Did anybody else read this article?

What did you think?

What do you think about selling out vs buying a more modest boat?

twistedtree · Nov 24, 2014

I'm a few issues behind on PassageMaker so haven't read the article, but it sounds like good advice to me. I think a lot of people dive in head first and find that cruising isn't all heavenly the way they thought it would be. I think testing the waters (pun intended) is a really good idea.

goboatnow · Nov 24, 2014

My only problem with that advise is that we're not totally sure where we want to live when we're done. It's also hard to say what kind of house you would want in 5-10 years, let alone where you would want it. Our approach is to have a rental property or two to hedge against real estate inflation. That way we could just sale them if want to and not feel tied down to any specific location to house. There are quite a few other ways to hedge against inflation too that don't involve any physical holdings. Mostly I just try not to take financial advise from boaters though?

Magnawake · Nov 24, 2014

Testing the waters is a great idea. I wish I would have bought smaller. I had to get something my wife would be comfortable living on at least 6 months /yr. Now that we have spent the most part of 4 yrs, we are wanting to down size into something requiring less attention. We use are boat to travel to Nuclear power plants where we work (NC-FL). It is good for us to take a break every once and a while especially around the hoildays (now). Yeah, we are home. Thats why I am couch cruising on this website. Also another good thing about downsizing is you pay less property taxes and insurance. I dont need to say dockage, haul outs, bottom paint etc, etc. smaller boats are less expensive. I keep all my tools, keep sakes and all other landlubbing stuff. We like having a house to run back to for our kids to meet us and have Thanksgiving. Both house and boat are modestly sized. Eggs are in two baskets.

Pack Mule · Nov 24, 2014

I read it and thought it made good since for our situation . The timing of the article was perfect . We had just decided to keep the boat we have and keep fixing it up and quit agonizing over selling out and buying a liveaboard trawler. When I retire ,sell our current hose and downsize to a smaller home close to the kids . Move the boat to a little warmer cruising grounds maybe south Alabama and just cruise maybe a month at time or whatever fells good till we're done . Then give the boat to the kids if they want it or sell it and move to the smaller home .

psneeld · Nov 24, 2014

There are a lot of variables.

Like most advice, you really have to pick and chose who is actually qualified to give what advice and what pieces really apply.

dannc · Nov 24, 2014

I read the article but I was not that impressed. The article just ignores so many variables.

If one is going to be overseas for years, why keep the house? No way in heck would I rent out my house. People rent successfuly but I have read too many renters horror stories to rent out our house.

When you return to land will you really want the old house? Will the house be where you want to live anymore? Will you be able to take care of the house? Will you need to be near the kids or maybe other family and the house is not near them? In your travels, would there be a chance you find a better place to live out your days?

Will you even want a house? Would you need to move into a retirement facility? There are some VERY nice ones in our area that are like staying at a high end resort. If we can no longer live on a boat, it is likely we will not be able to take care of a home.

The article assumes that one can afford the boat and house at the same time. We can have the house or the boat but not both. It is one or the other. A smaller boat won't do what we want to do. We want one of two boat models and the price of either is about the same.

Selling the current house, to buy a smaller house that we would not live in since we would be living on the other side of the world, makes no sense.

Frankly, part of the attraction of getting the boat and going is to CUT ties to a place on land.

Now, this is really strange for us because we WOULD be selling "the farm" which is our dream home that is on our dream land.

When we built we thought we would live in our place until we died. This still might happen, the calculation I have worked up to provide the odds of us pulling of the boat idea is about 50-50 at this point.

But we are very actively going through the list in our plan on what needs to be done to get the boat. The biggest inhibitor will be family responsibilities of which we have not real control.

So why are we want to leave? A huge development is going to be built 5 or so mile from our place that will double the population of the county. The town will increase in population by a factor of *** 20 ***. We bought this place to have peace and quiet but that is going to be hard to get in a few years. Ironically, selling the land and house would allow us to retire early and cruise the world before we age out.

When we age out who knows were we would need to live, or much less, want to live. Too many variables to figure out.

Later,
Dan

pilothouse king · Nov 24, 2014

dannc said:
I read the article but I was not that impressed. The article just ignores so many variables.

So why are we want to leave? A huge development is going to be built 5 or so mile from our place that will double the population of the county. The town will increase in population by a factor of *** 20 ***. We bought this place to have peace and quiet but that is going to be hard to get in a few years. Ironically, selling the land and house would allow us to retire early and cruise the world before we age out.

When we age out who knows were we would need to live, or much less, want to live. Too many variables to figure out.

Later,
Dan

The curse of America-the rampant development of future slums on what was once excellent farm land. It's like an ugly virus ruining what indeed WAS America the beautiful. One can't even tell the difference between one city and State from another anymore. Same shitbox designed houses, same stores at the same strip malls, all selling the same crap made in China. The houses are lined up like non descript gravestones which are apt for their inhabitants. Curses on those who buy them!!!

hollywood8118 · Nov 24, 2014

pilothouse king said:
The curse of America-the rampant development of future slums on what was once excellent farm land. It's like an ugly virus ruining what indeed WAS America the beautiful. One can't even tell the difference between one city and State from another anymore. Same shitbox designed houses, same stores at the same strip malls, all selling the same crap made in China. The houses are lined up like non descript gravestones which are apt for their inhabitants. Curses on those who buy them!!!

Wow.. America is doomed!

My advise would be to get up on the other side of the bed tomorrow am...
HOLLYWOOD

pilothouse king · Nov 25, 2014

hollywood8118 said:
Wow.. America is doomed!

My advise would be to get up on the other side of the bed tomorrow am...
HOLLYWOOD

Your words. Your advice. Turn on your tv and see the future. The lowest common denominators outnumber the high. Those who vote for a living outnumber those who pay taxes. The Supreme Court gave corporations the rights of individuals with it's Citizen United ruling so Corporations just buy votes legally. Politicians are in it for the money and have zero regard for their constituents. Look at China getting us taxpayers to subsidize them to ruin SE Florida with their railroad to haul hazardous materials down tracks that run smack through dozens of downtowns and alongside thousands of homes while wanting to totally close four bridges to boaters to all but several hours a day AFTER dark which will totally kill the marine industries west of the tracks. Big Sugar after polluting the Everglades and Florida Bay with their runoffs are being rewarded by the Federal Government with Ethanol subsidies to make ethanol out there and transport it along with the Chinese freight.
Great times to be a giant Corporation in America. Don't worry about who grows your food nor where your drinking water comes from or whats in it. Fracking is good. Pftt.
QUALITY and ETHICS are in short supply. Ignorance and apathy are well stocked.
What you haven't heard about this? How would you? The media is owned by the same Corporations screwing us. The nightly news are now basically pharmaceutical commercials aren't they? Treat us like mushrooms-in the dark, and fed poop!
All reasons to sell the farm or whatever you have that's not mortgaged.

Marin · Nov 25, 2014

ksanders said:
What do you think about selling out vs buying a more modest boat?

I think that's a very smart thing to do, if for no other reason that that's what we did.

We wanted to take up cruising but we did not want to give up any of the other pasttimes we had, nor did we want to give up our house and land. Of course, I'm still working so that played a role in the decision, too.

But neither my wife nor I like the idea of having as one's permanent, full-time home, something that can sink. Yes, I know a house can burn down, or fall down in an earthquake, or wash away in a flood, or blow away in a tornado. Of course, the key there is don't live where there are widlfires, earthquakes, floods, or tornados.

But at least land pretty much stays where it is 24/7/365 and, depending on where it is, it tends to retain its value over time despite periodic recessions and stuff.

Whereas the boat market wanders all over the place. And unless one buys a Hacker Craft or Gar Wood or some other collectable, vintage boat, one almost always loses money in terms of value on a boat come time to sell it.

So we'd rather have an older, smaller boat that we can enjoy as long as we're able, but not give up the long-term security of a base on land to live out our days.

Wayfarer · Nov 25, 2014

Aside from not really being able to afford a house and a nice comfy trawler, I really don't have the time or ambition to maintain both. As it stands, I'm already away from home 7 months a year. To try and divide the remaining 5 months between maintaining both a house (and all of it's contents) and a boat (and all of it's contents) would severely limit my ability to enjoy either.

I'm very nervous about selling out. It's a massive leap. I like my house very much, and I've put a lot of time and money into it. I'd definitely miss it.

FF · Nov 25, 2014

>I wish I would have bought smaller. I had to get something my wife would be comfortable living on at least 6 months /yr.<

This is a common problem when the bride has never lived on a boat before and wants mere volume , like her dirt house has.

My advice to wannabees is to take a vacation cruise (BEFORE ANY BOAT SHOPPING/LOOKING ) on board a steel canal boat in the Erie canal.

An enjoyable stress free week on a narrow boat will train her that comfort does not come from empty space.

It comes from a USEFUL interior optimized for the task at hand.

Besides cost and maint and fuel, the other hassle with a too big boat is it becomes a project just to leave the slip or just to move the boat.

FEAR enters the equation , and the boat soon becomes a not cheap stationary water side cottage, nothing more.

Bay Pelican · Nov 25, 2014

I have watched this issue closely for six years among the Caribbean cruisers. Approximately half are full time having either sold their home (land base) or rented it to others. The other half have kept some sort of land base. Of those that have kept their land base many, if not a majority, have moved into a less maintenance type of residence. Townhomes and apartment/condos are frequently what is bought.

Ignoring those who cannot afford both a boat and a house, what seems to be the determining factor is the attitude of the woman in the partnership. If she wants to go home for a few / many months each year there is a land base. If not they cruise full time.

This is consistent with my first rule of cruising: If the wife isn't happy cruising ends.

siestakey · Nov 25, 2014

I am looking forward to catching up on my magazine reading this long weekend and sharing our thoughts and what little experience we have

Magnawake · Nov 25, 2014

FF said:
>I wish I would have bought smaller. I had to get something my wife would be comfortable living on at least 6 months /yr.<

This is a common problem when the bride has never lived on a boat before and wants mere volume , like her dirt house has.

My advice to wannabees is to take a vacation cruise (BEFORE ANY BOAT SHOPPING/LOOKING ) on board a steel canal boat in the Erie canal.

An enjoyable stress free week on a narrow boat will train her that comfort does not come from empty space.

It comes from a USEFUL interior optimized for the task at hand.

Besides cost and maint and fuel, the other hassle with a too big boat is it becomes a project just to leave the slip or just to move the boat.

FEAR enters the equation , and the boat soon becomes a not cheap stationary water side cottage, nothing more.

Yes , Thats my wife. However, there's some goods news though. I really didnt want a large motor yacht but a sail boat. After we stayed on a sail boat for a weekend (a trail) which I thought would be a good idea turned her away from sail boats all together. She thought they were like a cave. I was bummed but really wanted to cruise so I settled for a power boat. Now we are in the market for a sail boat. My wife now wants to sail. Some people are really slow to change. Just buy something that will be marketable when you want to sell. An 80ft wooden remodeled shrimp trawler would be hard to sell. Go middle of the road.
Another point well taken is maintaining a house and boat at the same time is really hard. The boat is harder by a long shot. We have lots of family and friends to help out with the land dwelling. Changing the oil and waxing the boat is another story. I would like to sail around the world but we will just go to the Bahamas for now.

Moonstruck · Nov 25, 2014

pilothouse king said:
The curse of America-the rampant development of future slums on what was once excellent farm land. It's like an ugly virus ruining what indeed WAS America the beautiful. One can't even tell the difference between one city and State from another anymore. Same shitbox designed houses, same stores at the same strip malls, all selling the same crap made in China. The houses are lined up like non descript gravestones which are apt for their inhabitants. Curses on those who buy them!!!

Blake you will find a kindred spirit here. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...PwWbnpGcFS5Hkahrw&sig2=m03q2p_u3qMxJX9NPSaFEw

By the way, Kuntsler is full of crap. America is about freedom of choice. I do not judge where people choose to live or their choice in boats. I live in the inter city, but have no problem with people who do not choose so. Vote with your feet. There are plenty of places to select from.

dannc · Nov 25, 2014

pilothouse king said:
The curse of America-the rampant development of future slums on what was once excellent farm land. It's like an ugly virus ruining what indeed WAS America the beautiful. One can't even tell the difference between one city and State from another anymore. Same shitbox designed houses, same stores at the same strip malls, all selling the same crap made in China. The houses are lined up like non descript gravestones which are apt for their inhabitants. Curses on those who buy them!!!

One way the Roosevelt family made money was by buying up "cheap" farm land on the outskirts of NYC, waiting for the value to go up, and either sell or build on the property.

The developer who is creating the development does excellent work and he wants to build an integrated development of residential, commercial, and retail so that walking or using internal bus/trolleys will allow people to easily go from home, work and to the store. What is an ironic hoot is that the people who are most against this development are the ones who want everyone, but themselves of course, to live in such an integrated development.

The land in our county stinks from a farming point of view. The land in question has never done anything but grow trees. Our soil is either rock or clay. Sometimes more rock than clay which is why the county is rural. The land is so poor you can't perc it for the least expensive septic tanks. I figured we would never have dense development because of the poor soil quality. The county and town can't afford to build more water treatment plants for sewage or drinking water to support the limited growth we do have. There are businesses that cannot expand because of lack of drinking water and sewage treatment capacity. The developer is a billionaire and he will be able to build what is needed as he goes. THAT I did not forsee happening. :facepalm:

But if we end up with a boat, so be it, there are more than one way to skin a cat.

Our land has never been farmed. The land has only been used to raise timber and make moonshine. Even building houses on half our land will be problematic because of the soil perc. It can be done but it will just cost a bit more.

Later,
Dan

Robster_in_edmonds · Nov 25, 2014

On my curmudgeonly days I am completely on Blake's side. And then I will hit the water with my wife and we will have a magical day. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

rwidman · Nov 25, 2014

I read the article and I think this is good advice. Of course "advice" is just that, not a direct order to do anything in particular so it might be good advice for some people and not appropriate for others.

Some people get so carried away with the romantic idea of sailing away into the sunset on a boat that they forget the reality of old age.

Donsan · Nov 25, 2014

At this point in my life, I would never consider selling the farm. Would always keep a house or a nice size condo preferably at my boats home port. Both our current house and our current condo are low maintenance in that there are HOAs to take care of the landscaping and the exterior in the case of the condo. There are just too many messy aspects of todays life like drivers licenses, passports, medicare/SS, taxes, doctors, dentists, banking issues, family and a host of other things that make a permanent address necessary. You can avoid some of them by staying at the dock but if you are cruising full time, they might come back to bite you. The internet makes things a lot easier but it also is a complication.

We all probably long for a more simple simple life but others and organizations ensure we will never be able to tether ourselves from their grips. Would have thought the more wealth one accumulates, the easier it would be to obtain freedom to be a vagabond but it seems it is just the opposite.

I pay a good deal of attention to the stories of those who are full time cruisers but they rarely mention the kind of details on how they handle life's complexities besides boat issues. Maybe I should study up some more on it. The possibility of sinking doesn't bother me. The other issues do.

ksanders · Nov 25, 2014

I thought the article was fantastic.

Not only because of its advice on selling the farm, but also for its advice on buying a boat you can afford without needing to sell the farm.

To each of us, that's different. Some fortunate people can buy a new zillion dollar passagemaker, and still keep the farm. Others can only afford something much more modest.

Both get to go cruising.

Moonstruck · Nov 25, 2014

No matter the price of the boat, the scenery is the same. :dance:

rwidman · Nov 25, 2014

Moonstruck said:
No matter the price of the boat, the scenery is the same.

Some boats won't move under their own power. For those boats, the scenery is truly "always the same".

To be more serious, it's going to take a certain investment to purchase a boat that is reliable enough to set out on a cruise and large and comfortable enough that you will enjoy it and not long for your land based home.

The threshold is not the same for all of us but it is there.

psneeld · Nov 25, 2014

Donsan said:
At this point in my life, I would never consider selling the farm. Would always keep a house or a nice size condo preferably at my boats home port. Both our current house and our current condo are low maintenance in that there are HOAs to take care of the landscaping and the exterior in the case of the condo. There are just too many messy aspects of todays life like drivers licenses, passports, medicare/SS, taxes, doctors, dentists, banking issues, family and a host of other things that make a permanent address necessary. You can avoid some of them by staying at the dock but if you are cruising full time, they might come back to bite you. The internet makes things a lot easier but it also is a complication.

We all probably long for a more simple simple life but others and organizations ensure we will never be able to tether ourselves from their grips. Would have thought the more wealth one accumulates, the easier it would be to obtain freedom to be a vagabond but it seems it is just the opposite.

I pay a good deal of attention to the stories of those who are full time cruisers but they rarely mention the kind of details on how they handle life's complexities besides boat issues. Maybe I should study up some more on it. The possibility of sinking doesn't bother me. The other issues do.

Like what???

There are hundreds if not thousands of blogs on the net that do, this and other forums have addressed many issues...but ultimately it is how YOU handle your life that matters....living on a boat is only what you do or don't make it.

pilothouse king · Nov 25, 2014

boat vs a house

I can take a boat to the boatyard, hand them a punch list, walk away and come back (usually right quick) , find it all done, write a check and drive away. You can't do that with a house. You have to wait for a myriad of different people for different services to show up and you have to watch them like a hawk. Swapping General Contractor horror stories seems to be a common thread with home owners. You don't see that with Yacht Yards. I've only had excellent experiences at full service yards, and leave feeling that I got too good a deal! Never had that feeling in a dirt dwelling.

I've lived in motorhomes, I've lived in boats both power and sail, I've lived in high rises, I've lived in small houses in big cities, and big homes in small towns, I've lived in hotels for months in between. For sheer convenience the hotels win, followed by full service condominiums. Have a problem? Just call down to the office and that's it. Big houses and property are a lots like big boats-both being complicated machines with many systems to keep running. The beauty of a boat (other than the aforementioned services) is one can just crank one's engines and go when the neighborhood changes. The good thing about real estate is you can shoot guns off from the back porch and legally keep people from even stepping on your property by just posting a sign, both something you can't do at a marina.
For full disclosure, my ownership on land experiences have been entirely in the South. Your results may vary.

dimer2 · Nov 25, 2014

We actually did sell the farm to move aboard. Kept just one vehicle and one 10 x 20 storage unit. If I never have to mow grass again, it will still be to soon! Absolutely no regrets. For us it's not for a cheaper way of living it's for the simple life it affords. No stress, no worries and if the weather sucks so what we wait another day or week. We have spent more quality time together in the last year than in the previous ten. How do you put a price on that? Even our health seems to be better. I may consider buying a small waterside lot one day but if I do it will just be so I have somewhere to tie the boat for maintenance. We were lucky in that it wasn't a case of being able to afford one or the other, simply a choice for what we prefer and I don't see us going back.

Ski in NC · Nov 25, 2014

I'm going to keep my "dirt boat". I've got a wood/machine shop detached from the house and that fills my craving for building things. And about to do a "caterpillar remodel" on the house. I.e., scrape and build a new one. That will keep me busy for a while. Just need to light a fire under the friggin draftsman's arse!!!

Then I will have an apartment over the shop for personal stuff, and rent the house out for short term rentals including a boat slip.

Hopefully that will pay the property taxes and housekeeping. When rented, the boat and I are GONE!!

So that's the plan. Who knows whether it will work....

Capthead · Nov 25, 2014

I've seen many people move aboard and go cruising. Here on the Pacific it's not island hopping in the Caribbean, It's sailing thousands of miles to Hawaii, Fiji, the Marshalls or just coastal cruising down Mexico way. I've seen people with 30 year marriages split by the time they get to Cabo San Lucas and I've seen those that came back from five wonderful years seeing all the South Pacific Islands, Australia, NZ and more and loved every day of it.

What I have never seen is anyone coming back and moving back to their old home. Just doesn't happen here. They move to the opposite. Usually someplace like Colorado, Arizona, Nevada or 20 acres 100 miles north of El Paso Texas. Way far from the ocean. A totally extreme change. The couple that moved to Texas drives 20 miles of dirt roads to get to their home and 40 to get to a store.

There is one couple on a single screw trawler that sold their home but kept some rental property. They are leaving shortly.

Californians seem to get the smallest boat you are both comfortable in and get that ready because the expense of cruising has too many variables. A well equipped boat with a range over 500 miles seems to work. Mine has an 1100 mile range and is just right for us.

Kudo's to Pilothouse King for saying what everyone else is afraid to say.

RT Firefly · Nov 25, 2014

Greetings,
Well, selling the farm is a LOT better than buying the farm...

Selling the farm???

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