Get rid of old propane stove?

Are most of you all running propane stoves on your trawlers?* Ours is original and I have concluded I don't trust it or the propane lines feeding it.* The previous owner had disconnected it and had not used it in a long time.* In order to be able to use it I'd have to replumb the propane system, install new sniffers, etc. etc.* Lots of $$$.* I think I have talked myself into scrapping the old stove.* We have limited counterspace due to the galley design (full size fridge instead of an under counter fridge).* Thus, we are going to tear out the old stove and the old laminate countertops with the wooden fiddles and replace it all with continuous granite countertops and a drop in, 3 burner electric cooktop.* Where the oven is currently located we will instlall a convection microwave.* RIght now there is a microwave sitting above the fridge and this would free up more area for other storage, etc.
My thought is that without an inverter, and based on lots of previous anchoring for days at a time, we will most likely be cranking our 8KW northern lights generator first thing in a.m. and again*in the evening.* Historically, that would be during when we are cooking breakfast and dinner, so total run time on generator of about an hour per day, +/-, to allow for cooking, cool down cabin with HVAC, and recharge house batteries.*
Doing all the above will open up the galley a little bit, give us great looking countertops, give us more storage, eleminate safety issues, and cost us less than a new propane system and kills 2 birds with one stone (i.e. cranking generator to charge batteries while we are cooking anyway).*
Only "concern" i have is knowing most all coastal cruising/LRC trawlers are running propane units!* Am I crazy to do this on our Monk?* I think I've already made up my mind as it seems to fit what we want/need and my wife very worried about propane use but I thought I'd see if I should be talked out of it.*

Woodsong

I see no reason why you cannot go down that path hovever just keep in mind that your generator needs load when running so you might heat up the hot water and run the air conditioning at the same time

There are a lot of all electric boats out there

Allan

Hiya,
** What make is the unit?* Can you buy rebuild parts?
Sniffer******* $240
Tank************$30?
New hose* $120 for 30'
Regulator*** $80
* Yup, about $500 not counting stove repairs (new burner kits are about $25 per)**
** The upside of cooking with gas is that it's just so darn nice.* Cooked at home for years on electric but now using gas.* Won't go back if I can help it.
** As far as limited counter space.* Get a wooden cutting board to fit on top.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-stoves/stove-top-cutting-board.htm
** Heck, for that matter just get a new cooktop stove for $200.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-stoves/gas-cooktop-suburban.htm
** Or a new stove!
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-stoves/rv-range-magic-chef.htm
** Nope, never dealt with this company and nope, my brother doesn't own it either...just throwing ideas at you

Woodsong

A while back we were on a Cheoy Lee 66' LRC that was beautifully restored with an electric stove and oven.* In the galley they had a Coleman stove on the counter.* The owner said he used it in the morning when people were still sleeping and when he wanted to cook a snack or a light meal.

Have you looked at*propane cook tops* You could still install the*convection oven.* You would have*the same amount of counter space as*an electric cook top and you are not tied to the generator?

(this is someone who has converted*2 electric stoves to propane on our boats)

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
La Paz, BCS, MX

We ripped out old propane stove out for the very same safety reasons you mentioned, including old copper lines ductaped around the bridge rail then down the side of the boat, connected to a rotten wooden box on the bridge with old rusted tanks that had no inspections or markings on them. The ductape was even painted over with the new superstructre paint. Anyways, we ripped it out for safety reasons but it was also convenianted because we where gutting everything in the boat anyway......BUT, we are going back with a new propane stove/cooktop, and new lines/tanks/etc. The reason we are going back is out genset is noisy, and until I change it the exhaust is about 3 feet above the waterline so in addition to the noise from it running, you have all that chugging water spitting out and slapping the water making more noise.....anyway, we want to be able to cook without running the genset, when cruising and on the hook..

hmmm. Have others safely used RV grade stove/ranges in their trawlers without problems? Those prices are a fraction of the "marine" grade units which typically are running $1,200 to $1,400 per range.

My guess is most "marine" units are the same used in RV's but with three or four pieces of cheap stainless added to them and then marked up 500%....I am sure not all, but definatley many...

Trust me, I agree- gas stove beats an electric stove hand down...best thing to cook on and the only thing we ever have in our house! If I could pick up an RV style range and have it be safe enough to use on the boat I'd be up for it. I just can't justify spending $1,200 to $1,400 for a tiny little stove just b/c it says "marine" on it!
The other thing I like about the electric cooktop is that we would open up the galley via continuous countertops. We already ahve the built in cutting board lid for the existing stove but even then, would be nice to not have the countertops chopped up and one continuous solid surface.

So- anyone use an "RV" rated propane stove?

Our first boat had an RV propane stove. Still going strong when we sold the boat after 11 years. Next boat had diesel stove with a 2 burner propane portable that we used when it was too hot to put on the diesel stove. When selling that boat, took out the diesel stove and moved the 4 burner propane unit (14 yrs old) from our "new" trawler as the broker couldn't find a buyer who wanted a diesel stove in the boat.
We put in a new diesel stove and have never regretted it. We also have a Force Ten 2 burner propane cooktop in the counter, which we use when it is too hot out to fire up the diesel stove.
While we have a genset, I would never consider electric, as I am an early riser and want my bacon and eggs long before it would be polite to wake the rest of the anchorage or dock with a generator.
Fuel safety in the galley is not an issue. Propane is very safe, provided you have a sensibly designed system.

Woodsong wrote:

hmmm. Have others safely used RV grade stove/ranges in their trawlers without problems? Those prices are a fraction of the "marine" grade units which typically are running $1,200 to $1,400 per range.

Click to expand...

We put an RV*propane stove in 2 boats ago.* It was non gimbaled and other**than shaving 1/4' off of one side of the counter it was a direct drop in (it was an old boat).**After two surveys, no one had questioned the stove or the installation.*

We bought it from a large RV dealer in the Tacoma, WA area at less than 1/2 the price of a Force 10.

If the installation, ie; stove mounting, tank locker and gas lines are done correctly, you should be fine.

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
La Paz, BCS, MX

Just a thought . When*I think Marine I think salt water.
Salt water equals corrosion. That is why all the stainless. It doesn't rust

If you spend your time in fresh water. I wouldn't worry about using an RV unit on the boat.

If you are in the salt. I would get*a drop in cook top. *So you can replace it when It rusts out.

As far as the fridge units. I am not sure. I have only *used them *in Remote cabins.
I always thought they needed to be level.* Boats arn't level most of the time. If you use them.
If you're a dock queen. I have seen them in use.

SD***

Well let's tackle this from another angle. Personally, I would LOVE to keep propane for stove/range. I have never installed such a system myself though. If I can get a new RV grade range I'd be up for it. The question is what parts and pieces do I need to do this safely so the family doesn't get blown up?
Possible range:
22" Magic Chef range for $399:
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/magic-chef-16-range-black-top/1803

What abot storage locker? The true propane storage lockers I've seen run about $700???
I think previous owners just set a home style propane tank up on the flybridge under the flybridge helm in the storage area there. From that location they ran tubing down a conduit to engine room, ran down engine room ceiling, then up to stove in galley. Conduit at flybridge area also has electronics wiring, etc. so it is NOT water/vapor/air tight at this time. Can one just simply fasten down a normal propane tank up on the bridge, install a detention system in the galley, and a selenoid that lets you shut it down when not in use and be good to go?

I assume I will need 20-25 feet of supply hose for around $65:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|301237|322409&id=729561


Marine regulator for $65:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|301237|322410&id=59327

And detection equipment and on/off panel for $229:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|301237|322410&id=731259
That detector looks like it is only for the bilge and not for galley/salon??

3/8 Solenoid, 12V for $92:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|296545|747123&id=1285364

What else am I missing? If that is most everything, that is basically at least $900 before shipping, etc. so call it maybe $1,000. I can get an electric cooktop (2 burner, glass top) for about $150-200 and then it's just running electrical to it and i never have to worry about the boat/family blowing up. I know almost every sailboat, trawler, or LRC is using propane and doing so safely but $1,000 to get there, vs. a few hundred for electric and no safety issue?

maybe I ought to just get one of these and set out on the trunk deck and keep it simple hahaha:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=2000004124&categoryid=2010&brand=

Sorry for my ignorance on the propane systems. As I've mentioned in other threads, my experience with older/tradtional systems is a little limited. I just didn't have to ponder this stuff when I was on my 2005 sedan!! I appreciate your insight (and patience!).* We want to make the right long term decision, not just looking to save a couple of hundred dollars.* In our previous 2 boats with electric cooktops, running the generator to cook was only option and it never bothered us.* That being said, I have always had a dream of baking brownies while anchored out without running the generator so....*

P.S. We are in fact in freshwater and most likely will remain in freshwater 99% of the time, if not 100% of the time.* We may move the boat to the TN River soon to be able to stretch our legs more and if we did that we will see if I am able to resist the urge to go to the coast!*
-- Edited by Woodsong on Sunday 17th of October 2010 09:23:38 PM

-- Edited by Woodsong on Sunday 17th of October 2010 09:25:15 PM

WS,
* I strongly suspect that* a "Marine" label on any item raises the price and that as mentioned an RV*stove/cooktop isn't much different than a "marine" unit nor any less safe.
**

Hiya,
** "Can one just simply fasten down a normal propane tank up on the bridge, install a detention system in the galley, and a selenoid that lets you shut it down when not in use and be good to go?"
** I see no reason you couldn't do this.* You might want to build your own well ventilated box for weather protection.* Wouldn't hurt to install a detector in with the tank and regulator as well as one in the galley (some gas detection units are 2 channel).* A good idea would also be to turn the tank valve off when not in use rather than depending soley on the solenoid.* Remember, propane is heavier than air so a galley dectector should be below the appliance if possible.
***If using rubber hose secure the hose well and make sure you have chafe and sun protection where necessary.
** I am by no means an expert but it may be worth a few bucks to get an experts opinion before, during*and after installation.*



-- Edited by RT Firefly on Sunday 17th of October 2010 10:46:20 PM

"so total run time on generator of about an hour per day, +/-, to allow for cooking, cool down cabin with HVAC, and recharge house batteries."

Even with the best batts ,for absorbing a charge and a huge alternator 2 hours a day will be slow death of the house bank from undercharging.

The difference of a GOOD marine stove is not just the fiddles and pot holders.

A MARINE unit will have a different pattern on the operation of the surface burners,
Home and RV stoves allow the flame to be turned down as the stove is turned off.
Too low a flame can accidentally blow out .

A marine unit has the knob that will usually need to be pushed in to turn the gas on , and the operation is "backwards.

Just on, it on high , as you twist the knob the flame is lowered to a pre-set point , one that hopefully wont blow out from opening a hatch.

WE have used RV ranges for years in a boat , but the biggest hassle is they are hard to gymbol .

Even in a 50 ft stable boat , the passing of an imbecile is a problem .

The stove should be gymboled to protect the cook, and although in our current boat MB we don't have this feature the stove should be mounted athwartships , so in a roll situation the pot departs Port or Stbd , but not onto the cook.

WE usually run the legal propane hose thru a discarded Hyd line for added protection , and use both an on/off switch and a wind up timer to be sure the range is not left on.

In one of his books, George Buehler seems to endorse the use of RV stoves. As he says, watch for corrosion and discard unit after 10 years or so.

You say you've already made up your mind. I think it's a bad move myself. We use our factory installed Force 10 propand range and oven on a regular basis. It's just like cooking at home. There's no running a generator or hooking up to shore power involved, just light and cook.

I also think it would be a very bad move to consider any type of non-marine propane stove or installation.

The ABYC has some very specific requirements for propane installation on a boat. Your boat was probably compliant when it was built so it should be relatively easy to restore it to compliance and working condition.

I am still using the original propane stove/oven from 1983. I've replaced the solenoid valve and regulator and it seems to be fine still.
I like propane over electric. Had electric in the previous boat and proane is so much nicer to cook on.

We have a "rv" stove that has been in the boat for over 15 years... it works great although the "stainless steel" top is showing rust in a few spots. We have traveled a lot and dont see the need for a p.i.t.a. gimbaled setup... they are a bear to keep the well they fit into clean.. and it takes up a lot of space. Our propane tanks are 2-7.5 gal aluminum tanks painted white and on the aft cabin top behind the forward cabin. Set the tanks in open air and you have no locker issue. period. My thoughs are cooking with electric is too slow unless it is a radiant coil...( ceran top )* I dont think you can get a small top that does that.* Stay with gas... get a rv unit... throw it away in 15 years when it gets cruddy. Oh and by the way ... we also use a propane 3 way refer/freezer!
HOLLYWOOD

There are regs for the installation.
First the locker for the tanks: Under the bridge is ok, so long as the drains are not above a door or an opening window. Propane is LPG. the L is for Liquid, so think liquid when routing your lines. If your conduit opens in the propane locker at least 4 inches above the floor, the liquid (if you ever have a leak) that flows along the floor, should have left via the vent at floor level and should have drained down onto the deck and out the scuppers, rather than climbing up into the conduit. Fill the top few inches of the conduit with caulking, and you will never have a problem.
Second, the line must be continuous. the regs do not permit a join, anywhere between the solenoid at the tank and the fitting at the stove. Joints leak, so don't have any.
Third: have an indicator light that is always on when the solenoid is energized (open). Then you know.
Bob's your uncle.

Hiya,
***
* http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf

Mr. koliver.* NOT regulations, suggested standards.***Their use is entirely voluntary

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Monday 18th of October 2010 08:53:46 AM

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Monday 18th of October 2010 08:55:23 AM

"Personally, I would LOVE to keep propane for stove/range. I have never installed such a system myself though. If I can get a new RV grade range I'd be up for it."

IF you can settle for a good used RV range , you can have my old one for free.

Not marine , no gymbols .

Located Ortona Fl, after 1 Nov.

With respect to the continuous hose from tank/regulator/solenoid to the appliance, does this mean that one needs a separate hose for each appliance served, or can one hose go to a manifold?

Hiya,
** Ashapiro, that question MAY be covered in the link I posted.

Ashapiro,
that is a great question! I read through the entire PDF that RT Firefly posted and saw no mention of 2 appliances and how to run lines to them??? I would assume maybe a manifold @ the tank/locker itself would be the safest route so as to not have fittings in the cabin walls or bilge.

We use a simple set of T fittings as the reefer is on all the time, the range only with the solenoid.

Remember the solenoid will eat 3/4A or so while the range is on.

Hiya,
** WS, thanks.* I would think a manifold in* the open air would be better/safer in the open air rather than* in/on a bulkhead as well.

ashapiro wrote:

With respect to the continuous hose from tank/regulator/solenoid to the appliance, does this mean that one needs a separate hose for each appliance served, or can one hose go to a manifold?

Click to expand...

Separate hose for each appliance.* From the propane locker.* No connectors inside the boat except at the appliance.

*

RT Firefly wrote:*
* http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf

NOT regulations, suggested standards.***Their use is entirely voluntary


Continuing to live on this earth is pretty much voluntary also.*

A wise boater who cares for his (or her)*safety, the safety of his family and the safety of guests and marina neighbors will follow the standards even though they may not be legally binding.* These folks don't just make this stuff up and they don't publish it just to see their words in print.

Propane is every bit as explosive as gasoline, if not more so.

Click to expand...

*


-- Edited by rwidman on Tuesday 19th of October 2010 03:30:08 PM

Hiya,
** I'm not*saying there's anything wrong with ABYC suggestions and rwidman,*I fully agree a wise boater should adhere to the suggestions as well.** They offer very good avice but using non tinned wire for example is foolish but not against the law. Whereas having too few life preservers on board is not only foolish but against the law as well..* The proper # of life preservers on board is a REGULATION.* ABYC*standards are not.*
** Many folks think ABYC is the law-it ain't.* Be safe.