Defever 49 for $95K - Sign of the times?

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refugio

refugio

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This 1981 Defever 49 was just listed in La Conner for $95K - all the others of similar vintage are listed at $120K to $$219K.

Seems pretty unmolested - which also means that the wood looks kind of, well, out-dated. I know some folks have said they were looking for this model, which has been always been a good value - but this is a lot of boat for under $100K asking.

I also happened to read today Paul Krugman's piece on "Our Invisible Rich", and I think this Defever really highlighted the wealth inequality in this country.

But here's the thing - we all boat in the same waters and go to the same destinations. I've seen recent threads on this forum about how inland waterways are declining - and I know it's a struggle for small resort & marina operations in the PNW - but it really seems like there's a disconnect between the yachting world that can afford new 50' boats and the world of this 49' Defever. This forum has members with more expensive and vastly less expensive boats, and we all seem to be able to share and learn from one another.

Anyway, just some random thoughts, triggered by the observation that a 40' Defever for under $100K might not be a positive indicator for the type of boats and boating we do share.
 
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Well developed thoughts but you are jumping to assumptions that aren't supported. There are always bottom of the class priced boats. Don't draw any conclusions.
 
refugio said:
This 1981 Defever 49 was just listed in La Conner for $95K - all the others of similar vintage are listed at $120K to $$219K.

Seems pretty unmolested - which also means that the wood looks kind of, well, out-dated. I know some folks have said they were looking for this model, which has been always been a good value - but this is a lot of boat for under $100K asking.

I also happened to read today Paul Krugman's piece on "Our Invisible Rich", and I think this Defever really highlighted the wealth inequality in this country.

But here's the thing - we all boat in the same waters and go to the same destinations. I've seen recent threads on this forum about how inland waterways are declining - and I know it's a struggle for small resort & marina operations in the PNW - but it really seems like there's a disconnect between the yachting world that can afford new 50' boats and the world of this 49' Defever. This forum has members with more expensive and vastly less expensive boats, and we all seem to be able to share and learn from one another.

Anyway, just some random thoughts, triggered by the observation that a 40' Defever for under $100K might not be a positive indicator for the type of boats and boating we do share.
Click to expand...

My first thought would be that it's worth either $95,000 or probably less. Without seeing the boat, I can only go on the basis that the owner, who knows more about it that we do, felt it was worth no more than that. The reasons would only be known after a closer look and/or survey.
 
I saw that boat as well. We are in the market for a boat between 40-50 ft and we really like the walk around deck that these boats offer. But we are afraid of the age of all these type/era boats that have Teak decks/older engines ect. For roughly 100k, give or take, there are also 1990-98 Bayliner 4588 & 3988's respectively. We keep going back and forth on what we want and we just can't decide:banghead: Opinions on these older Vs newer boats? We love the walk around decks but not the age. I am not retired yet so don't have a lot of time to tinker on them.
 
refugio said:
This 1981 Defever 49 was just listed in La Conner for $95K - all the others of similar vintage are listed

I also happened to read today Paul Krugman's piece on "Our Invisible Rich", and I think this Defever really highlighted the wealth inequality in this country.

re.
Click to expand...

Want to see wealth disparity, go over to Yachtforums.com and look at the photos of the Yacht Show going on in Monaca right now.. Yowsa, that collection must make some there feel inadequate for only having one or two billion dollars. They must consider millionaires nothing but "riff raff" to be kept behind the velvet ropes.
 
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Man, I wish that boat was on the East Coast! The pictures look really nice and my guess is it's for sale at that price because he doesn't want 2 boats.
 
pilothouse king said:
Want to see wealth disparity, go over to Yachtforums.com and look at the photos of the Yacht Show going on in Monaca right now.. Yowsa, that collection must make some there feel inadequate for only having one or two billion dollars. They must consider millionaires nothing but "riff raff" to be kept behind the velvet ropes.
Click to expand...

Yes, Illusion at 89 meters sold for $99.5 million last month. Nirvana which is a 2012 Oceanco is for sale at just over $250 million. And that's without even looking at yachts like Azzam at 590 ft. Now I've never been on any yachts the size of these and each to their own, but I can't imagine it seeming like boating. More like a floating hotel, which is how they're mainly used. They have to use the tenders to actually boat. It's more like a cruise ship. Or maybe we just say that about things we couldn't afford anyway.
 
Well, the hailing port on the transom is Edmonton Alberta - that's a 13 hour drive and (apparently) 6 hour set of flights away. And despite the apparent lack of use (I think I see 2468 engine hours on the meter) it's obvious the boat has been well maintained cosmetically. The only things that made me go "huh" were that ladder on the stern and the degraded varnish on the inside of the starboard midships door. Oh, and the total lack of any personalization items. I'm guessing they already removed those (and the dinghy!) for their new boat.

So part of me was thinking "that's a lot of boat for the money", and another part of me was thinking "yeah, but it's still going to be expensive to maintain particularly if you don't have covered moorage". But the net message I actually got was that used boats aren't worth very much money. And that also made me wonder about the future values of higher end boats as well. Perhaps I can afford a 50' Nordhavn in another 30 years? Only downside is that I'll be in my 80s. <sigh>
 
It's so hard to tell just looking online. First question is how current are the photos. Do you weigh the low engine hours or the age of the engines most. The new Generator or the old teak?

One thing that gives me reason to pause is that the same broker, Fairhaven Yacht Sales, has a 48' Defever a year older for sale for $150,000. So what makes this one worth that much less? Is it something we can't see? Or just a motivated seller?

At the least a starting place of some questions to ask the salesman and see if the answers make sense. Wonder how long the current owner has owned it.
 
The add said the owner moved up and like someone stated before, all the personal stuff is moved off so it seems the owner has moved on. Looking at the pictures, the boat seems to be in good shape. I'm sure a survey is needed, but to me, it seems like a good deal with a motivated owner.
 
BandB said:
It's so hard to tell just looking online. First question is how current are the photos.
Click to expand...
Advt says awlgrip paint job just done. So exterior at least, very recent.
 
And that also made me wonder about the future values of higher end boats as well. Perhaps I can afford a 50' Nordhavn in another 30 years?

The govs of the world are in a state of panic as they are unable to create inflation.

The Euro inflation rate was reported at 0.3% , even after loads/years of money creation.

The Value of money is what it will purchase , commodities are down , gold , silver are down.

To common folks this is GREAT , as your money purchases more , the fear of gov is Japan Style , where deflation , assets going down, slows purchases ,

When it is realized THINGS will require less money to purchase , if you wait, the economy declines.

The unwinding of the Fanny / Freddy caused housing bubble is one example.
 
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refugio said:
Well, the hailing port on the transom is Edmonton Alberta - that's a 13 hour drive and (apparently) 6 hour set of flights away.
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Canada's has a list of mandatory hailing ports, can't just use any city like in the states. Edmonton is the only hailing port for Alberta.

Furthermore, only one name can be registered. So in theory, you could go to the Registy list at Transport Canada, find the registry number (828044) and share owners name, and call him (in Calgary).
 
I struggle with the notion that a 43 year old boat selling for 75% of its build cost is a sign of economic disaster looming.
 
Damn! Looks like a pretty nice boat for the price. I'd have to unload my boat before I could consider something like this, and I do like the DF49's. But since the crash and the drop of the boating market, I'm not sure I could even give my boat away today!
 
Most things depreciate with age, it's that simple. Anybody who's purchased a high end car (or furniture, carpet, plane, jewelry) can tell you this in just a matter of a few years, so decades old? I don't know why people think yachts should be any different. It's always been like this. That's not an unusually low price by any mean at all. I have a page on my site of old print advertisements going back into the 80s, and you can see the prices of similar sized boats from back then. They weren't that much then.
Then there was the recession of 08, where prices on new boats from manufacturers fell off a cliff. Of course that effected used boat values with a vengeance, which led to the avalanche of repos. All those boats became the new comps. It's why 57' boats from 99-02 that cost over a million dollars new, sold for $450k in 08(with $600k payoffs) can be bought today for $300k. OLDER boats in beautiful condition who's owners owed the bank $600k were selling for $50k -$75k. There were some incredibly low prices just years ago. The expense to care and feed boats keeps going up, which doesn't add value. In the early 90s I had all the slips I wanted at a marina for $150.00 a month, and insurance wasn't required. One of an average income could afford that. Now in Miami? $1700.00 a month,

plus proof of insurance required. THIS is whats killing boating.
 
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Bay Pelican was built for $85K US in 1985, was worth $325K in 2007 (Bay Pelican is fully loaded with everything) now worth (estimate) $225K. This drop in prices is the first time a Krogen 42 owner sold for less than he bought it for.
 
Just a thought, what would be the ballpark cost of having that boat transported to the MS. gulf coast?
 
pilothouse king said:
Most things depreciate with age, it's that simple. Anybody who's purchased a high end car (or furniture, carpet, plane, wife, fruit) can tell you this in just a matter of a few years, so decades old?
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're familiar with the old saying called the "The 3 F's". "If it Flys, Floats or F**ks, rent it, don't buy it." :)
pilothouse king said:
Then there was the recession of 08, where prices on new boats from manufacturers fell off a cliff. Of course that effected used boat values with a vengeance, which led to the avalanche of repos. All those boats became the new comps.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's related to my point - this boat is the new comp for Defever 49s. How long until NT42s are down there too? Is this actually a delayed continuation of 2008 with (per another thread) unfavorable demographics as well?

I have a spreadsheet (I've mentioned it before) that calculates the monthly cash and net cost of major assets I own or am contemplating. And for years, I've had my boat's depreciation at 0%. But I now I think I was being overly optimistic. And I've seen something similar happen to a lot I bought last year in a recreational community 90 minutes East of Seattle. Yes, 2008 wasn't great for this kind of property, but the market did continue to turn over though a bit more slowly. Prices ratcheted down, and I thought I had truly bought at the bottom. But now I don't have that same confidence - the lot I purchased DID become the new comp - and it was the cheapest of the 11 properties that were used this year by the county assessor to set the average lot value for 2015 in a community of 408 lots, so literally everyone got a statement in the mail saying their property (not structure) value had declined by an average of 20% in one year and they are NOT happy campers! Which is actually the kind of "wake up call" that I was hoping for, and has sparked a more than 50% turnover in the HOA board.

But we don't have that same dynamic with boats, which are one of the "The 3 Fs".
 
dhiggins said:
Just a thought, what would be the ballpark cost of having that boat transported to the MS. gulf coast?
Click to expand...

Problem is you can't get there from here kind of situation. You would transport from Victoria or Vancouver but you'd end up in West Palm or Fort Lauderdale, then run it across. Cost to transport ballpark probably $60,000. Plus add a few thousand to run it to Mississippi. The other option would be having it delivered on it's on bottom which might be slightly less although putting more wear on the boat. You're talking about 5600 miles so in a straight transport running 24 hours a day, so a team of at least three, plus a few stops for fueling and provisions, and allowing 10 days for the Panama Canal, you'd be talking 45 days. Running daylight only for the most part you'd be talking around 80 days. The cost of that would probably be very close to the transport price. Considering the wear probably more.

Now, there is one more way of doing it if you have the time. Take it home yourself but on whatever schedule you have time for. Take advantage of the situation to see the PNW and the west coast. Maybe move it a little at a time. Yes, still costly, but at least you're getting something in return for your money. We picked up a boat in Washington the first of May. So far we're explored Washington, Alaska, and the Columbia River. Just today are we really starting south and in a week or so we'l finally make it to San Francisco. We do fly home for breaks. We figure on making it home with the boat around May or June so about a year. However, in the process we will see all these areas we've never seen before on land or water. Now while you might not have the time to spend that we do, still the same principle can work. Maybe you don't linger as long but at least for the amount you spend getting it home you're actually using and enjoying it.
 
Holy Crap some of you jump to some bizarre conclusions..

world economic doom...

real estate woe's...

nobody mentioned Obama and ISIS..

Maybe the P.O wants out now and has just listed low to move it.. normally you can tell if a boat is a dog or a gem in 15 minutes.. on the surface it looks like a decent old boat. If ANYBODY expects to buy a 30 year old 50' boat for under 100k without ANY issues they are on crack. New 50' is 800k +... 705k buys a lot of happiness and leeway to deal with some issues.
Interested in the boat .. go look at it.. decide if it is a P.O.S. in person. If not why speculate. May be a deal.. may be not. But it does look clean for its age.. unmolested.. clearly taken care of by the look of it.. and the notes on the whiteboard in the E.R. are a good sign

HOLLYWOOD
 
Too many owners over price their boats and they sit on the market for years. Eventually, the listing will get stale like real estate listings. Best is to price it right in the beginning and below the competition and move it fast. The seller will save a lot of holding, storage and maintenance costs plus there is a time value of money factor. Yachtworld has too many listings highlighting price reductions.
 
BandB said:
Problem is you can't get there from here kind of situation. You would transport from Victoria or Vancouver but you'd end up in West Palm or Fort Lauderdale, then run it across. Cost to transport ballpark probably $60,000. Plus add a few thousand to run it to Mississippi. The other option would be having it delivered on it's on bottom which might be slightly less although putting more wear on the boat. You're talking about 5600 miles so in a straight transport running 24 hours a day, so a team of at least three, plus a few stops for fueling and provisions, and allowing 10 days for the Panama Canal, you'd be talking 45 days. Running daylight only for the most part you'd be talking around 80 days. The cost of that would probably be very close to the transport price. Considering the wear probably more.

Now, there is one more way of doing it if you have the time. Take it home yourself but on whatever schedule you have time for. Take advantage of the situation to see the PNW and the west coast. Maybe move it a little at a time. Yes, still costly, but at least you're getting something in return for your money. We picked up a boat in Washington the first of May. So far we're explored Washington, Alaska, and the Columbia River. Just today are we really starting south and in a week or so we'l finally make it to San Francisco. We do fly home for breaks. We figure on making it home with the boat around May or June so about a year. However, in the process we will see all these areas we've never seen before on land or water. Now while you might not have the time to spend that we do, still the same principle can work. Maybe you don't linger as long but at least for the amount you spend getting it home you're actually using and enjoying it.
Click to expand...

Exactly on point, a friend shipped his 48' Cabo SF from FTL to B.C. he said 60k.
 
The first thing that catches my eye is it is moored under cover, a big deal here in the PNW, but for how long who knows? Also, not a lot of unnecessary crap on the bridge.

Crap! I do not need another boat
But what could it hurt to go take a looksee?
 
Max Simmons said:
The first thing that catches my eye is it is moored under cover, a big deal here in the PNW, but for how long who knows? Also, not a lot of unnecessary crap on the bridge.

Crap! I do not need another boat
But what could it hurt to go take a looksee?
Click to expand...

Well, go see it and let us know....inquiring minds need to know.
 
As for this particular boat, it bears all the signs of a remote owner who hired qualified local professionals to do the necessary work – a perfect combination.

But for those thinking about moving it a great distance, I think the take away is that when this one sells it will put substantial downward pressure on every other DeFever 49. You can be sure that the brokers with those other boats are aware of this one as well.
 
N4712 said:
Exactly on point, a friend shipped his 48' Cabo SF from FTL to B.C. he said 60k.
Click to expand...

If there was regular scheduled shipping from the AMERICAN west coast (not Mexico or Canada) all those boats stuck out there would had long ago been sold off to Australia and New Zealand. They're dependent on local buyers (no shipping, expensive to impossible to, truck, and huge distances in open water to move elsewhere) of which there's fewer and fewer. Once upon a time boats out there brought a premium, but that was once upon a time. Foreign buyers have been driving the SE market since 2004. That's why we have such a shortage of good salable yachts, and literally hundreds of dealerships and Brokerages went out of business. We're all fishing in a shrinking pond with ever rising overhead.
The lowest prices on nice yachts have been in the Bay Area. We don't count them as comps though, because of their geographic isolation, and that bugaboo of dockage and insurance to keep them there.
 
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