Why are you selling?

Donsan · Sep 24, 2014

ksanders said:
Every boat in the harbor represents someones dreams.

Sailboats outnumber trawlers and cruisers in my harbor probably 2 or 3 to one.

I'd say that almost every large sailboat represents someones dreams of sailing off into the sunset.

Most sail boats never leave their slip.

Dreams that never came true.

Methinks that is because most sailboat owners have health problems!

Our neighbor took us out on his fairly new 40' Catalina a year or so ago. After seeing all the work involved to get under sail and participating in hoisting and lowering the sails, my wife, who previously had raced sailboats confessed she was physically struggling with the sail. Up to then, we were seriously considering buying a similar size sailboat. Well, we ended buying a trawler this spring. Our neighbor now has his boat for sail because it is too much work for the two of them. We have been using the trawler whenever weather permits. No health problems.....yet ... but learning to dock a single engine Taiwanese Tub Classic almost sent me to the psych ward. Since I am too large for the ER, we will probably become check writers.

BandB · Sep 24, 2014

Donsan said:
Methinks that is because most sailboat owners have health problems!

Our neighbor took us out on his fairly new 40' Catalina a year or so ago. After seeing all the work involved to get under sail and participating in hoisting and lowering the sails, my wife, who previously had raced sailboats confessed she was physically struggling with the sail. Up to then, we were seriously considering buying a similar size sailboat. Well, we ended buying a trawler this spring. Our neighbor now has his boat for sail because it is too much work for the two of them. We have been using the trawler whenever weather permits. No health problems.....yet ... but learning to dock a single engine Taiwanese Tub Classic almost sent me to the psych ward. Since I am too large for the ER, we will probably become check writers.

I think there's health problems and then also just that it becomes too much work. Whether it's aging or just getting tired of doing it. When one is first working on the boat they purchase, that's part of the fun of it. But later that is just work that stands in the way of fun. I use to know people near me who had homes in the city and lake cottages. They'd soon find that every weekend they got to the lake was spent doing lawn work, repairing docks, doing maintenance to the house and little time on the water. Well, same thing with boats times many. We don't sail for just that reason. It's more work than we want to do. And that has nothing to do with health or age, just basically lazy I guess. And we'd never have the patience or skills to restore an old boat. Some people don't go into boating with any perspective of what it is really like. Then the reality hits them.

rwidman · Sep 24, 2014

Donsan said:
Pray tell, why is it so many boat owners have health problems? .............

Let's remember that the OP is looking at trawlers. Young people usually go for speed, middle aged people may go for a sport cruiser or sailboat. It's generally the older folks who buy trawlers. Older people generally have more health issues and more serious health issues. Issues that may keep them from enjoying their boats.

BandB · Sep 24, 2014

rwidman said:
Let's remember that the OP is looking at trawlers. Young people usually go for speed, middle aged people may go for a sport cruiser or sailboat. It's generally the older folks who buy trawlers. Older people generally have more health issues and more serious health issues. Issues that may keep them from enjoying their boats.

And a large portion of the population continues to work until they have health problems.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 24, 2014

rwidman said:
Let's remember that the OP is looking at trawlers. Young people usually go for speed, middle aged people may go for a sport cruiser or sailboat. It's generally the older folks who buy trawlers. Older people generally have more health issues and more serious health issues. Issues that may keep them from enjoying their boats.

Not only Trawlers, but higher end Trawlers in good condition, updated and cared for. I'm looking at vessels to $160K+. Many of these boats sold for today's equivelant of $500K or more in the late 80s. It's pretty easy to weed out the obvious dogs through photos. When I see a quality brand boat like a Hatt or GB or Tolly with 4 pictures of peeling bright work and mold around the windows I pass. Boats with 80 to 100 pics of impeccable cleanliness and apparent maintenance get a second and maybe third look.

Pau Hana · Sep 24, 2014

Iknowimcrazy said:
Not only Trawlers, but higher end Trawlers in good condition, updated and cared for. I'm looking at vessels to $160K+. Many of these boats sold for today's equivelant of $500K or more in the late 80s. It's pretty easy to weed out the obvious dogs through photos. When I see a quality brand boat like a Hatt or GB or Tolly with 4 pictures of peeling bright work and mold around the windows I pass. Boats with 80 to 100 pics of impeccable cleanliness and apparent maintenance get a second and maybe third look.

Be careful- it's not hard to spruce up a boat for sale, and give the appearance of owner care......hiding the turd beneath.

Scary · Sep 24, 2014

Exactly

ksanders said:
Every boat in the harbor represents someones dreams.

Sailboats outnumber trawlers and cruisers in my harbor probably 2 or 3 to one.

I'd say that almost every large sailboat represents someones dreams of sailing off into the sunset.

Most sail boats never leave their slip.

Dreams that never came true.

Exactly, and those boats represents the chance of still living the dream. I think people are holding on to the dream, paying monthly moorage and boat payments. Hope of someday escaping the grind and humdrum of life. When I had my boat in Alameda, my boat was the only regularly used boat in a harbor of 400 boats. In fact it was referred to as the boat that leaves the harbor. I would guess that 80% of these boats were sailboats. Harbored in one of the best sailing venues in the world.

Magnawake · Sep 24, 2014

That would make me really mad if the boat looked clean in the pictures, then when you went to see it in person is was all dirty and unkept. I looked at a ski boat one time that the owner said "like new condition". When i drove 2 hrs to see it, it had 12" of winter leaves all inside. It didnt have a boat cover all winter. I asked the guy why he said "new condition" and he said all you need to do is vacuum the leaves out and wash it and it will be like new. I was so mad, I just walked away. I also went to a boat show with all kinds of used boats (no mega yachts) just smaller 30-50ft kinds. Even though most looked good on the outside, they had a moldy, potty, diesel smell. I could tell they were neglected. Deals like that are easy to come by on Yacht World at a great price. However, if you find a person who lives on their boat, most all systems will be in working order and looking good as well as running good. The salon will smell like Coffee in the morning, bread at noon and cookies in the evening. It will be turn key, ready to go cruising. The price will reflect it with an extra 50K.

bligh · Sep 24, 2014

Many boats listed for sale actually use the pictures of the boat from when the current owner originally bought it or when the boat was pristine. Alway confirm with the broker if the pictures were taken recently, and if so, how recently.

CPseudonym · Sep 24, 2014

Before you travel "any significant" distance to look at a boat have the broker/owner email you high resolution pictures with that days local newspaper in it. Date on the newspaper doesn't lie.

BandB · Sep 24, 2014

CPseudonym said:
Before you travel "any significant" distance to look at a boat have the broker/owner email you high resolution pictures with that days local newspaper in it. Date on the newspaper doesn't lie.

And if a broker misleads you into a wild goose chase, get another broker. There are brokers who will listen to what you say and your requirements and then find boats that meet it.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 24, 2014

That's funny; old pictures. After looking at a few thousand listings over 4 months I've developed a pretty discerning eye. Some pictures are so old they're yellowed or pictures of girls with 80s hair styles.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 24, 2014

BandB said:
And if a broker misleads you into a wild goose chase, get another broker. There are brokers who will listen to what you say and your requirements and then find boats that meet them.

Brokers. That's something I've considered. My search area is pretty much limited to the Great Lakes region. Anybody know anybody that knows somebody who has a brother-law?

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 24, 2014

And yes. Before it's mentioned; when I do find the right vessel, and when I'm willing to lay down a decent pile of cash money (by my standards) I will hire the most highly regarded and recommended surveyor I can find. Regardless of cost.

FF · Sep 24, 2014

>However, if you find a person who lives on their boat, most all systems will be in working order and looking good as well as running good. The salon will smell like Coffee in the morning, bread at noon and cookies in the evening. It will be turn key, ready to go cruising. The price will reflect it with an extra 50K.

Many liveaboards havent moved from the slip , or run the engine in 1/2 a decade.<

Because there is the >chance< the engine might be used , manana (not today , maybe tomorrow) most of these dock queens refuse to do DA Book, Out of Service for over 30 days procedure and always pay the price.

A Dock Queen , deduct $50K from the rational price.

Lived aboard for over 22 years ,saw them all.

What makes a great liveaboard has little to do with cruising in terms of equipment .

With the power hose 24/7 refrigeration , lights , heat will serldom be chosen for operation underway , just low cost.

If a cottage on the water is the goal a good liveaboard would be a good low cost choice, if putting away into the sunset is the dream, make a list of what will need to be replaced to make an useful cruiser .

The answer is seldom keep the house junk and run a noisemaker 365 days a year.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 24, 2014

I learned a real hard lesson about 15 years ago. I purchased a 1985 911 Coupe with low miles and impeccable service records from the local dealer that had the cars maintenance history. I made arrangements to see the car. It was November in Pa. and cold and drizzly. The car was at an apartment complex. Divorce sale. It was dirty, wet, Golden Retriever hair all over the interior. I looked the car over while the seller warmed the engine. Everything looked straight. It had brand new Pirelli rubber and the normal paint chips I would expect on a 15 year old car. The underbody was clean and never bottomed out. The solid lifters sounded perfectly tuned. I had pre-arranged to take the car to a guy I knew; an eccentric German who looked over a list of clients cars, mostly collectors. The seller and I drove down to the Wally's, the mechanic for a quick inspection. We all went for a drive with Wally at the wheel. The seller was crumpled in the "back seat". It was cold and a little icy so we couldn't get on it, but it did everything it was supposed to do. Wally gave it thumbs up.
If you've gotten this far you know the car was dirty and wet from sitting outside for a few months.
The next day, after sitting in my garage all night I pulled it out to wash and detail. It wasn't until I started buffing the wax off when I noticed the almost imperceptible dimples. Everywhere. Tiny as they were, they were there. Sleet damage or light hail. The more I buffed the worse they looked. I lost $10K that day.

kthoennes · Sep 24, 2014

From personal experience, for example: not to get too specific but there's a boat for sale in Titusville, FL. Been for sale for a long time, low price, navy blue hull (I'm a sucker for a dark blue hull). It's been listed on the 'net forever and I looked at the listing for over a year. The photos show a mirror-shiny hull, looks like it's been buffed and waxed yesterday, great shape. Earlier this year I just happened to be in northern Florida so I thought what the heck, I'll take a detour and finally see that boat in person. Seagulls were nesting on the flybridge. Plywood in some of the portlight/window openings. Boy was that an annoying waste of time and gas. I don't even know why sellers do that kind of thing -- even with an eBay purchase, 99% of the time it's not as if anybody is going to hand over the cashier's check without ever having seen the boat at all -- only to find a family of raccoons living in the upholstery. It's such a waste of time for both the buyer and the seller himself too.

Insequent · Sep 24, 2014

ksanders said:
I know why so few trawlers are divorce sales...

Thats because the guy becomes a liveaboard!

My wife asked me one day, just out of the blue... (and yes she was happy that day).

"If I kicked you out, it wouldn't bother you much would it?"

I was honest and told her that except for missing her, no it would not bother me at all. I'd just move onto the boat.

Well now Kevin, what if she had said: "I'm leaving, and taking the boat" Would that have bothered you much?

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 24, 2014

kthoennes said:
From personal experience, for example: not to get too specific but there's a boat for sale in Titusville, FL. Been for sale for a long time, low price, navy blue hull (I'm a sucker for a dark blue hull). It's been listed on the 'net forever and I looked at the listing for over a year. The photos show a mirror-shiny hull, looks like it's been buffed and waxed yesterday, great shape. Earlier this year I just happened to be in northern Florida so I thought what the heck, I'll take a detour and finally see that boat in person. Seagulls were nesting on the flybridge. Plywood in some of the portlight/window openings. Boy was that an annoying waste of time and gas. I don't even know why sellers do that kind of thing -- even with an eBay purchase, 99% of the time it's not as if anybody is going to hand over the cashier's check without ever having seen the boat at all -- only to find a family of raccoons living in the upholstery. It's such a waste of time for both the buyer and the seller himself too.

Like an old sales boss I once had used to preach: Qualify! Qualify! Qualify!

hmason · Sep 24, 2014

Once went to a yard to look at a boat with my broker. Another boat was in the middle of a beautiful varnish job. When I asked about that boat I was told "they are putting lipstick on a pig." I never forgot that line and its not so hidden advice.

Howard

refugio · Sep 25, 2014

hmason said:
Once went to a yard to look at a boat with my broker. Another boat was in the middle of a beautiful varnish job. When I asked about that boat I was told "they are putting lipstick on a pig." I never forgot that line and its not so hidden advice.

I had a 50' wooden Tolly moored next to me 10 years ago that was freaking gorgeous. Everything was either polished brass or literally gold-plated. My mechanic said he'd done the engine maintenance and made some comment about how a hooker looks late in the evening after quite a few drinks. It ended up selling to someone in Australia for north of $250K.

I hadn't contributed to this thread because I didn't think I had much to add, but the Porsche anecdote roped me in. I can't remember a time when I didn't think I knew everything I needed to know about boats, and the idea that I would ask an Internet group for advice about buying a boat is mind-boggling. But when I went to buy a Boxster a few years back I went to Squire Tomasi because that's where my friends who raced Porsches went. So I guess my advice is, when you don't really know what you are doing, find the absolute best person to advise you and make it worth their while. Squire ended up becoming a friend.

Magnawake · Sep 25, 2014

FF said:
>However, if you find a person who lives on their boat, most all systems will be in working order and looking good as well as running good. The salon will smell like Coffee in the morning, bread at noon and cookies in the evening. It will be turn key, ready to go cruising. The price will reflect it with an extra 50K.

Many liveaboards havent moved from the slip , or run the engine in 1/2 a decade.<

Because there is the >chance< the engine might be used , manana (not today , maybe tomorrow) most of these dock queens refuse to do DA Book, Out of Service for over 30 days procedure and always pay the price.

A Dock Queen , deduct $50K from the rational price.

Lived aboard for over 22 years ,saw them all.

What makes a great liveaboard has little to do with cruising in terms of equipment .

With the power hose 24/7 refrigeration , lights , heat will serldom be chosen for operation underway , just low cost.

If a cottage on the water is the goal a good liveaboard would be a good low cost choice, if putting away into the sunset is the dream, make a list of what will need to be replaced to make an useful cruiser .

The answer is seldom keep the house junk and run a noisemaker 365 days a year.

Point well taken. Now that you said it, I do know of a few dock queens. Stay away from that kinda boat. So find a livaboard that actually goes cruising. Trouble is catching up to a full time cruiser. They are always on the move.

THD · Sep 25, 2014

As for the boats that were someone's dream, but end up never leaving the dock-some sage advice from our outstanding young Seahawk QB, (in an ad, don't remember who for!), "Dreams don't just come true, they are made to come true". Too many either forget, or never learn, you work just as hard on your dreams as anything else.

Why are you selling?

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