Why are you selling?

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 23, 2014

This is the first question I ask when buying anything. It often predicts how the negotiation will go.
In my search for a trawler I have contacted over a dozen brokers and inquired about many vessels, over 40, in the 36' to 40' range. This is a breakdown of why people are selling their trawlers.
Informal results from primarily Great Lakes region.
40% Health reasons
25% Death or spouse death
15% Moving up
10% Finances including upside-down boat loans
10% Moving to be closer to grandchildren.
The market for trawlers seems to be shrinking.

hmason · Sep 23, 2014

Nobody said "my boat's a piece of crap and I just want to be rid of it?" Hmm, very interesting.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 23, 2014

I forgot to mention; I inquired about only a handful of builders including; GB, KK, Hatteras and a few Pilgrims. All in the $80K to $140K range.

bligh · Sep 23, 2014

You are assuming the brokers are telling you the truth.
Surprised you dont have 'divorce' in there as well.

AusCan · Sep 23, 2014

When I was shopping, I got similar responses when I asked the same question. Health reasons was definitely the number 1 reason from private sellers.

Honestly - I feel my boat is good for my health. With any health issues I've had, getting out on the water seems to speed the recovery.
I suppose time catches up on us all eventually. I'll probably go downhill fast once I have to give it up. I dread that day. Maybe it would be best to just sail off into the sunset.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 23, 2014

I talked to many owners also. I've always found that people are generally honest about why they are selling. They might lie like hell about what they paid or condition, but they'll generally be straight up about why. Funny, 5 years ago when I was looking for a runabout; at least half were divorce sales.

ksanders · Sep 23, 2014

I know why so few trawlers are divorce sales...

Thats because the guy becomes a liveaboard!

My wife asked me one day, just out of the blue... (and yes she was happy that day).

"If I kicked you out, it wouldn't bother you much would it?"

I was honest and told her that except for missing her, no it would not bother me at all. I'd just move onto the boat.

Magnawake · Sep 23, 2014

How bout "moving to a sailboat". Thats my plan. BTW, yes mine is on the market. No rush though, we still love our Hatteras. The time to sell is when the boat still gets lots of attention and looks great. Most people wait til the boat is in bad shape then try to sell. I guess health reasons play a major role in that. Thats a shame.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 23, 2014

ksanders said:
I know why so few trawlers are divorce sales...

Thats because the guy becomes a liveaboard!

My wife asked me one day, just out of the blue... (and yes she was happy that day).

"If I kicked you out, it wouldn't bother you much would it?"

I was honest and told her that except for missing her, no it would not bother me at all. I'd just move onto the boat.

That's a true statement. I've spent a lifetime around boats and Marinas; there are always a few guys who insist their "wives don't like boat", when in reality they don't like each other.

obthomas · Sep 23, 2014

I asked my wife the other day "If I lost all my money and my boat in the stock market would she still love me?" She said she would with a "but she sure would miss me."

ksanders · Sep 23, 2014

Iknowimcrazy said:
That's a true statement. I've spent a lifetime around boats and Marinas; there are always a few guys who insist their "wives don't like boat", when in reality they don't like each other.

I suspect you generally see that in older people. Sometimes people that spend a lifetime together change over time and take on interests that their spouses do not want to do, or at least not as much as their partner.

Just look at the boating alone thread.

The other side is after a lifetime together sometimes they don't want to spend much time around each other, and staying apart most of the time is cheaper, and easier, and less painful than divorcing.

I'm not in either situation right now, but thats not to say something might not change in the future. A lifetime is a long time.

Art · Sep 23, 2014

Iknowimcrazy said:
This is the first question I ask when buying anything. It often predicts how the negotiation will go.
In my search for a trawler I have contacted over a dozen brokers and inquired about many vessels, over 40, in the 36' to 40' range. This is a breakdown of why people are selling their trawlers.
Informal results from primarily Great Lakes region.
40% Health reasons
25% Death or spouse death
15% Moving up
10% Finances including upside-down boat loans
10% Moving to be closer to grandchildren.
The market for trawlers seems to be shrinking.

Interesting Great Lakes seller-stats - Thanks!

On Pacific coast, especially SF Bay and Delta (very informal statement):

For all "new" self-contained cruising-boats, below mega yacht category, "the U.S. pleasure-boat market" appears to be broadly shrinking in the 2000's. Seems that inflatables, o/b powered smallish catamarans, small fishing boats, and ski/wakeboard speed boats may be still selling OK. The current plethora of “for sale” 24 to 49 yr old boats (self-contained pleasure craft) were built pretty darn well by reputable boat builders... especially for the first 20 +/- years (1965 - 1985) while FRP came fully into play. Back-then, most manufacturers built on over-kill status (i.e. extra thick layups and professionally cautious application of the best available materials) simply because it was unknown how well fiberglass would hold up and what the stress factors of sea-waves might do to its integrity and life-span. Well... now we know! FRP boats built really well in the early days of fiberglass are still in fine shape if owners paid a modicum of attention toward ongoing maintenance.

I too always ask “why are you selling” for any item of cost that I’m looking at with a buyers-eye. For self-contained pleasure boats what I hear most often (from private owners): “It’s more than I/we have time for now”… or… “We don’t use it that much anymore with kids grown. I just can’t see keeping it any longer. We hope it ends up in a good home”

Unfortunate for the sellers but great for the buyers… Self-contained pleasure boats (Trawlers) can usually be located for sale at reasonable prices with room for downward cost adjustment.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 23, 2014

Art said:
Interesting Great Lakes seller-stats - Thanks!

On Pacific coast, especially SF Bay and Delta (very informal statement):

For all "new" self-contained cruising-boats, below mega yacht category, "the U.S. pleasure-boat market" appears to be broadly shrinking in the 2000's. Seems that inflatables, o/b powered smallish catamarans, small fishing boats, and ski/wakeboard speed boats may be still selling OK. The current plethora of “for sale” 24 to 49 yr old boats (self-contained pleasure craft) were built pretty darn well by reputable boat builders... especially for the first 20 +/- years (1965 - 1985) while FRP came fully into play. Back-then, most manufacturers built on over-kill status (i.e. extra thick layups and professionally cautious application of the best available materials) simply because it was unknown how well fiberglass would hold up and what the stress factors of sea-waves might do to its integrity and life-span. Well... now we know! FRP boats built really well in the early days of fiberglass are still in fine shape if owners paid a modicum of attention toward ongoing maintenance.

I too always ask “why are you selling” for any item of cost that I’m looking at with a buyers-eye. For self-contained pleasure boats what I hear most often (from private owners): “It’s more than I/we have time for now”… or… “We don’t use it that much anymore with kids grown. I just can’t see keeping it any longer. We hope it ends up in a good home”

Unfortunate for the sellers but great for the buyers… Self-contained pleasure boats (Trawlers) can usually be located for sale at reasonable prices with room for downward cost adjustment.

I keep a small runabout (22') on Tablerock Lake in Mo. My marina, one of the nicest on the lake, has begun reassembling the 50'+ docks and making them 30 and under. I see a steady population of Deck style and Wakeboard boats. Fewer and fewer cruisers.

Iknowimcrazy · Sep 23, 2014

I tried selling my 22' Four Winns last season. Nobody's interested because it doesn't have a tower.

Donsan · Sep 23, 2014

Iknowimcrazy said:
This is the first question I ask when buying anything. It often predicts how the negotiation will go.
In my search for a trawler I have contacted over a dozen brokers and inquired about many vessels, over 40, in the 36' to 40' range. This is a breakdown of why people are selling their trawlers.
Informal results from primarily Great Lakes region.
40% Health reasons

Pray tell, why is it so many boat owners have health problems?

You don't have to answer that. I have seen the answer myself after trying to move my 6'5" frame around in my 3'5" engine room. Any one want to buy a boat with an ER for pigmys?

ksanders · Sep 23, 2014

Donsan said:
Pray tell, why is it so many boat owners have health problems?

You don't have to answer that. I have seen the answer myself after trying to move my 6'5" frame around in my 3'5" engine room. Any one want to buy a boat with an ER for pigmys?

"health problems" is a catchall reason for selling that in all probability has zero to do with a large percentage of boat sales.

Saying "health problems" elicits a feel sorry thought and response, and removes the boat from the reason for selling.

The reality is most boats, and we've all seen this suffer from under use, and as a result neglect.

The problem is that it brings up the wrong mental picture. If you said "we don't use it enough, and are tired of paying the high cost to keep it" That brings up a mental picture of a neglected boat.

Say "health reasons" and you envision someone that really loves the boat but just cannot use it anymore. The mental picture is a whole lot different.

Loved boat vs unloved boat.

Everybody wants a boat that someone loved.

Gulf Comanche · Sep 23, 2014

ksanders said:
"health problems" is a catchall reason for selling that in all probability has zero to do with a large percentage of boat sales.

Saying "health problems" elicits a feel sorry thought and response, and removes the boat from the reason for selling.

The reality is most boats, and we've all seen this suffer from under use, and as a result neglect.

The problem is that it brings up the wrong mental picture. If you said "we don't use it enough, and are tired of paying the high cost to keep it" That brings up a mental picture of a neglected boat.

Say "health reasons" and you envision someone that really loves the boat but just cannot use it anymore. The mental picture is a whole lot different.

Loved boat vs unloved boat.

Everybody wants a boat that someone loved.

Can't disagree w/ that reasoning at all. A well kept log of maintenance would support any reason for selling. I never leave the boat without filling in the logbook with whatever went on that day. My book has a section for maintenance.

windmill29130 · Sep 23, 2014

I found that a lot people just didn't use it anymore or they tried it and didn't like it. A few actually went out a couple times and got sh $#÷t scared out of them.

Art · Sep 23, 2014

Funny thing we see quite a bit around SF and surrounding cities/towns... a lot of people simply purchase a boat cause they think they should have one... and, they then quickly get tired of it.

God knows why they do not even try to resell the boat. Too many boats sit unattended year after year. Monthly/annual cost to the foolish owners (non-users) must be a BIG PIA. Value of many an unused boat has either hit rock bottom or reached the level of "dump-it". I've spoken to marine mechanics who have told me about boats purchased brand new and used twice in its first year. Thereafter the boat sits for years not being used at all... then the owners have visitors and suddenly think they can just all a mechanic and have it placed back into service for some holiday weekend - NOT!

I will say that most boats treated this way by wannabee mariners are not anything like "Trawlers". The vast majority are 24' to 36' "tennis shoe designs" that really are quite funny to look at anyway.

There's a 32'er on our dock that was purchased new around 2004, used less than 50 hours in first two years; then let set. This past Labor Day our marina's mechanic was given less than a week to get it ready for the weekend. He told me that original carburetors are gummed up and need full rebuild, impellers are original and wasted, toilet's gaskets are dried and cracked, original batteries are wasted... just to mention the top level problems of a boat sitting still for 8 +/- years. Needless to say - the boat was not made runnable.

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

ksanders · Sep 23, 2014

windmill29130 said:
I found that a lot people just didn't use it anymore or they tried it and didn't like it. A few actually went out a couple times and got sh $#÷t scared out of them.

A guy I know did just that.

He wanted to go boating, so he bought a brand new 24' Alumanium fishing boat with twin outboards. No head, no real cabin, cost probably close to a hundred thousand dollars.

He goes out of the harbor in the afternoon as the sea breeze is blowing 15 knots or so.

Tromps it...

Hits one or two waves, and goes airborne.

Wife tells him and probably not calmly to turn around.

Boat goes up for sale.

He asked why. I told him that he bought the wrong boat. He bought a "guy" boat.

I told him for that money he should have bought a heavier boat, with a head, and a cabin, and a galley. A boat that could take the sea breeze waves with out scaring his family.

He will probably never have a boat again.

kthoennes · Sep 23, 2014

I never cease to be amazed at how many boats sit almost completely idle at our marina all season. I've watched one with the same big cobweb on the mooring lines for five months. I don't get it. Okay, I can even understand dock queens that never leave the slip, if you really want what amounts to a floating cabin on the water - but some of the owners never visit their boats all season - boats where none of our dock neighbors, including some of those who practically live aboard in the summer, have ever seen the owners, ever. What a waste of disposible income.

Art · Sep 23, 2014

Just for S&G - I wonder what %age of "pleasure" boats are actually cared for on a regular basis and used at least occasionally as compared to the ones that simply sit idle and waste away. I bet in many U.S. locations the unused/uncared for well outnumber the used?? :facepalm:

Talk about $$$$ to burn! Do other nations also experience such wasteful practices regarding boats? :nonono:

Hummmm...

BandB · Sep 23, 2014

kthoennes said:
What a waste of disposible income.

The most tragic loss isn't the wasted dollars on the unused boat. It's the life impact. These are people who are not finding any recreational or family time. Life is passing them by. Worse than what is happening to the boat is what is happening to the owner.

refugio · Sep 24, 2014

Donsan said:
I have seen the answer myself after trying to move my 6'5" frame around in my 3'5" engine room. Any one want to buy a boat with an ER for pigmys?

Bill Bishop had a great post on that issue this week!

Art · Sep 24, 2014

BandB said:
The most tragic loss isn't the wasted dollars on the unused boat. It's the life impact. These are people who are not finding any recreational or family time. Life is passing them by. Worse than what is happening to the boat is what is happening to the owner.

True - Sign of the times. Obviously you have a heart! Congratulations...

Art · Sep 24, 2014

refugio said:
Bill Bishop had a great post on that issue this week!

All toooo True!! lol

ksanders · Sep 24, 2014

BandB said:
The most tragic loss isn't the wasted dollars on the unused boat. It's the life impact. These are people who are not finding any recreational or family time. Life is passing them by. Worse than what is happening to the boat is what is happening to the owner.

Every boat in the harbor represents someones dreams.

Sailboats outnumber trawlers and cruisers in my harbor probably 2 or 3 to one.

I'd say that almost every large sailboat represents someones dreams of sailing off into the sunset.

Most sail boats never leave their slip.

Dreams that never came true.

kthoennes · Sep 24, 2014

We have a storage unit in a big storage complex. It's filled with old cars that never move, cars I'm sure people think they'll restore someday but eventually squirrels build nests in the seats, and snow melts into the dashboards in the spring. A parking space in that storage yard costs $10 a month, big deal. Never-used bigger boats on the other hand cost thousands to store, launch, slip fees, winterize, re-launch - for no reason. We all have hobbies that grow dust because we're too pressed for time, but bigger boats are in a different league in my mind - they're a constant, significant financial drain just to own, whether you use them or not. That's what I don't get. My unfinished woodworking projects don't cost me anything, sitting on a corner of the shop for years, but those big boats cost so much we better darn well use it every chance we get or else unload the money drain.

Peter B · Sep 24, 2014

When my boat goes on sale shortly, if asked, my answer will be simple and truthful.
Much as we have loved our boat and enjoyed her, we love our eldest son and his wife and our two cute grandkids over in London more, and unfortunately, if we are to see anything much of them, the travelling has to take precedence over the sailing. Not quite sure how I'll cope the rest of the time mind you.

Wxx3 · Sep 24, 2014

ksanders said:
I know why so few trawlers are divorce sales...

Thats because the guy becomes a liveaboard!

My wife asked me one day, just out of the blue... (and yes she was happy that day).

"If I kicked you out, it wouldn't bother you much would it?"

I was honest and told her that except for missing her, no it would not bother me at all. I'd just move onto the boat.

That's an Alaskan for you

Why are you selling?

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