Sea Trial - New Boat Search

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N4061

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As part of our ongoing search for our next boat I took a closer look at a boat I first went aboard in 2007. I never let go of this make/model since being impressed with it during my short time aboard despite continuing to build our second Nordhavn 40, almost building a Kadey Krogen
then purchasing our third Nordhavn (N3522). My interest in this boat was fueled by learning that two previous Nordhavn owners purchased this same boat after selling their Nordhavn's but still wanted a boat with similar quality and reliability, capable of serious coastal cruising at an affordable price.

As luck would have it the weather was unusually favorable with clear skies, little wind and temperatures in the low 80's (hate when that happens) and didn't allow for everything I wanted in a sea trial but we managed. Up until now my experience with this boat was through knowledgeable owners and two previous trips to look at the boat and other models tied to the docks.

First impressions of the boat upon walking up to it was that this is a large boat for its LOA. Boarding the boat through the swim step confirmed my need for port and starboard boarding doors (no problem adding) and welcomed me to a large protected aft deck. Entry into the salon provided a nice size with very functional galley. A few steps forward lead me to the oversize pilothouse and one of the best features of this boat. The forward single OSR with separate shower and head compartments offered nice space and very functional. Up top the flybridge and aft deck was much larger then what I was use to and well designed.

The sea-trial provided more then I expected despite the calm conditions (you can get a feel how a boat will handle cutting against and taking beam cells from other large boats) combined with other maneuvers. The sound level of the newer electric diesel was a nice surprise compared to the Lugger and Yanmar we were use to. Handling and visibility was also a step above what we were accustomed to.

So in the end I walked away asking myself if I had found our next boat that meets our 90% rule (live aboard and serious coastal cruising - San Diego to PNW and Cabo San Lucas).

Time will tell as we continue our research and still look closely at building one more Nordhavn but now there is a serious contender in the equation.

We should make our decision within the next 30 days and will advise. I hope this was "fun" to read as it was not intended to play games but provide readers with something different while at the same time some insight into what goes into purchasing a new boat. As always we welcome comments and input in a positive nature to help all of us on this great site see what goes into finding their right boat. :)

John T.

N4050 - Former Owner
N4061 - Former Owner
N3522 - Former Owner
Dreamer of next boat
 
I guess it's a "dream boat."
 
Greetings,
The make, model, size and age of the boat is really irrelevant. The process Mr. N4061 is describing is just that, the process. Either one already owns a boat and knows what they'd like to change for the next one or one is trying to narrow down the multitude of choices/options for their first boat.
It's good to be familiar with a lot of different vessels and layouts but it's also bad in a way. VERY easy to choose between two vessels but when asked to choose between 8 or 10, the necessity to be specific as to wants and needs becomes much more important. The REAL kick in the pants occurs when one thinks they have finally found THE boat and a completely new option presents itself. Just my $.02.
 
Well yeah, he's describing a process. But it's a process that seems to involve a very specific boat.

"As part of our ongoing search for our next boat I took a closer look at a boat I first went aboard in 2007. I never let go of this make/model since being impressed with it during my short time aboard"

So it would be kind of interesting to know just what boat stuck with him this long that he involved it in the process yet again. :D
 
Yeah I don't get why you can't give the make in the first place? Do you like messing with us?:p
 
Playing ones cards close to the vest is smart if considering entering negotiations. Boat names, listing links, make & model are all popular Google keywords.

A "savvy" seller would do well to Google search those keywords on his "own" boat whenever an offer comes in to gather possible intel on the potential buyers motivation. Likewise a "savvy" buyer would do well to avoid chatting up his choice in advance of the close.
 
CPseudonym said:
Playing ones cards close to the vest is smart if considering entering negotiations....
Click to expand...
Exactly what John did when buying the boat he promptly resold. John`s right and choice, but maybe discussion could help. Anyway, I bet it`s another N.
 
Greetings,
As I said in post #5 boat particulars are not important. It's the process that is being explained. There is the "Shhh" factor but again not important nor relevant to the process. Jeepers, what a bunch of old women. Next thing you know you'll be wanting to know Mr. 4061's shoe size.
 
So far John has not found the right boat. This is good news for the brokers during the past 3 transactions. Almost anything will work for John's cruising plans so it is easy to understand the indecision and suspense.

Tighten the mission plans and budget then reality and purchase will occur. Oh what the heck, just buy the KK 52 John.
 
I get the process, but...

Hard to imagine the freedom to go through NEW Nordhavn builds like a hot knife through warm butter... and still not being satisfied with the current boat.

FWIW, I don't shop for (or dream about) boats. Instead, I'm all over individual "features" that I want a boat to have. Or maybe a few features that could be swapped into a boat that doesn't already have whatever...

(It happens I'm pretty easy to satisfy: I simply imagine our current boat but with a full-beam and en suite master instead of our second guest stateroom (storage room), systems improvements to match, along with easier access to systems for maintenance and service. If space and design permits, a lower helm in a raised pilothouse would be nifty.)

Anyway, if I had the economic freedom to buy that many new boats, I think I'd more likely look for a production or semi-production boat that comes closest, have the builder (or somebody) modify the snot out of it if necessary... take delivery ideally within about 6 months... and go boating.

Now If I could just remember to actually PLAY the lottery, I might stand more of a chance...

-Chris
 
Methinks John enjoys looking, buying, selling, building. He will always be in pursuit of his perfect boat. Nothing wrong with any of that. We share some of the sickness as we do love researching potential boats, looking at unique ones, learning about different ones.
 
Lots of good to be said about looking, researching, designing, modifying... and of course buying, selling, building... but I don't have the bucks to follow through with those last three.

I guess I still have to remind myself to PLAY the lottery, if I expect any progress on that front. :)

In the meantime, I've gotten pretty good at adapting what we've got into how we use it. Or maybe that's an equal part of adapting how we use it based on what we've got.

It's all good boating to us, though :)

-Chris
 
BandB said:
Methinks John enjoys looking, buying, selling, building. He will always be in pursuit of his perfect boat. Nothing wrong with any of that. We share some of the sickness as we do love researching potential boats, looking at unique ones, learning about different ones.
Click to expand...


This is the "enjoyment" that means there are better boats for the rest of us to dream about (and a few to acquire).
Following his reasoning can help us decide how or to modify our boats.
Ted
 
It's fascinating (to me) to see the different ways people get enjoyment or fulfillment or both from a single type of thing--- a boat.

There is the fellow that for the entire 16 years we've been in this marina, worked on a large (50' ?) wood cruiser in a boathouse near us. He worked on the boat year round. The hull was stripped and repainted at least three times. From what I could see of the boat, the paint was flawless the first time we saw it, but apparently it wasn't to the owner. So far as we knew, the boat never left the boathouse except to turn it around from time to time. But every weekend when we went to our boat, this fellow or the people he hired were beavering away on the exterior and interior of this boat.

So to this guy, the "working on it" aspect is what he wants out of boating.

Then there are the boats we've seen out and about in the islands that are physicaly somewhat beat up. Bad paint, bad or no varnish, rust, etc. But they get used constantly. So to thse owners, it's all about the "using," not the "working on."

I know people I call "dreamers," folks who have a boat that suits their needs but are always thinking about other boats. They never (so far, anyway) act on their dreams, I think because all the boats they look at and drool over are beyond their current means or are too big for their slip or whatever. But they never stop looking and talking about the "perfect" boat they saw last week on the guest dock or in the yard or out at some harbor in the islands.

We (my wife and I) love having a cruising boat but we have very little interest in the looking and shopping process. The same, by the way, is true of vehicles. We decide beforehand what we want to do with a boat, what kind (make, model) of boat will do what we want to do while meeting our aesthetic and operational requirements, and then in the case of the cruising boat we've had for he past 16 years, we hire someone to find us one.

Now, after owning and using this boat on a year-round basis, we have a pretty good idea of what we want that our present boat doesn't have. As there are no production boats that fit all our requirements the solution became obvious--- have a boat designed and built to do exactly what we want it to do. So to us, we like using a boat, and we've enjoyed (most of the time) working on the one we've had for the last bunch of years, but we've no interest in the dreaming-walking docks-shopping aspect of boating.

Then there are the people who are always searching. They buy a boat, use it for a year or three, then buy another boat, use it for a year or three, then buy another boat, and the pattern continues. Of the people we've known that do this, their reasons were never that they didn't like their previous boat, they simply wanted something "different."

So lots of ways people approach boating, and lots of ways a boat can satisfy someone. While one can look askance, as we did, at the fellow who spent at least 16 years working on a boat that was already perfect, there's no right or wrong. There's just "different."
 
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Marin said:
It's fascinating (to me) to see the different ways people get enjoyment or fulfillment or both from a single type of thing--- a boat.


Then there are the boats we've seen out and about in the islands that are physicaly somewhat beat up. Bad paint, bad or no varnish, rust, etc. But they get used constantly. So to thse owners, it's all about the "using," not the "working on."

I know people I call "dreamers," folks who have a boat that suits their needs but are always thinking about other boats. They never (so far, anyway) act on their dreams, I think because all the boats they look at and drool over are beyond their current means or are too big for their slip or whatever. But they never stop looking and talking about the "perfect" boat they saw last week on the guest dock or in the yard or out at some harbor in the islands.


Then there are the people who are always searching. They buy a boat, use it for a year or three, then buy another boat, use it for a year or three, then buy another boat, and the pattern continues. Of the people we've known that do this, their reasons were never that they didn't like their previous boat, they simply wanted something "different."

So lots of ways people approach boating, and lots of ways a boat can satisfy someone. While one can look askance, as we did, at the fellow who spent at least 16 years working on a boat that was already perfect, there's no right or wrong. There's just "different."
Click to expand...

I think you are 100% correct in this...

I believe that there are people that dream of cruising. They think, "If I just had a XXX boat I would go cruising. So, they justify to themselves not cruising because they need a XXX boat to do it.

These people will never actually go cruising, but boat shopping, and boat buying keeps the dream alive. Thats good because it brings them happiness.

Then there are people like Larry, and Richard, and Melanie and John that buy whatever their budget can afford and actually go cruising. Thats good as well because it brings them happiness.

Yes, boats and boating is different things to different people.
 
Greetings,
Mr. Marin. I concur and might I add: "Gee willikers...I had a so many foot brand X years ago. I wish I had it now". I've heard that on several occasions.
 
Now me, on the other hand....I look for something that will keep me totally occupied with laborious projects instead of enjoyment. When I was younger, it took perhaps a dozen or more land vehicles to do that, but now that I'm older, a single boat works perfectly!:banghead:
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. Marin. I concur and might I add: "Gee willikers...I had a so many foot brand X years ago. I wish I had it now". I've heard that on several occasions.
Click to expand...

Inciteful observation, Mr. Marx, and a very valid one. We, too, have heard a lot of boaters over the years who have "moved up" from their original cruising boat to newer, larger, and fancier boats say, "We love our [current] boat but you, know, the best boat we've ever had was that first one."

I've personally heard this the most from various Grand Banks owners over the years. They talk to us from the decks of their GB42s or 46s or 52s or brand new Eastbays, and the boat they invariably speak of as their favorite is the little GB32 they started out with.

I believe this has a lot more to do with the sense of new adventure and new experiences they had with that first boat rather than the boat itself.

My wife and I have taken a whole lot of narrowboat holidays in the UK since 1990. We've used a variety of boats, the last several cruises with a wonderful 60-footer that is patterned after the famous working boats of the 1930s. Our very first trip was with an old, 50-foot, soon-to-be-retired, wood-topsides boat named Ash. (The owner of the hire-boat company named all his boats after trees).

Ash's transmission crapped out toward the end of our two-week cruise (they are designed to break in forward gear so you can always move the boat), and it took a couple of mechanic's visits to where we had tied up to set it right again.

But when we look back at all the narrowboat cruises we've taken so far, while all the trips have been great, the one we remember most fondly is that first one in tired old Ash. The later boats eclipsed it in every way, but nothing has ever equalled that very first time we tackled something new and met the challenges, and Ash was the boat that helped us do it.
 
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Hello fellow boaters, well it appears my post worked in that it generated discussion and even a little debate. I would like to comment on one post related to those who forever chase their dream boat and never go boating. While it may appear to some that we may fall into this category believe me we do not. We use all our boats extensively, some differently then others but each boat has met is intended use flawlessly brining us great memories and because we do our homework we never take a major hit when we sell. An example is our 22' Mako Center Console we purchased from a dealer in northern California back in 1995 who couldn't give the boats away. We paid his cost, used the boat for five years and sold it for what we paid for it. We have been fortunate to repeat this to varying degrees with another small boat and our first Nordhavn. Now things get interesting for us.

A little background information on our Nordhavn ownership. Soon after building and owning our first N40 my wife advised she just couldn't get us to the slow (6 knot) speed and asked for a quicker boat. Knowing who is boss we put N4050 up for sale expecting the process to take about a year only to receive a full offer within a month. We weren't sure what to do but we decided best to accept the offer and worry about the next boat later. A few boat shows and sea trials on go fast boats resulted in the boss realizing it is difficult to cook, walk around or do just about anything when traveling fast so it was decided slower was better. Back to Nordhavn and N4061 was built. Life was good for about three years until health issues forced us to sell the boat. It should be noted that both boats served our purpose of part time live aboard and coastal cruising when time permitted. N4061 was sold in the worst of times but still did ok minimizing the pain of selling. When we decided it was time to "test the waters" I knew a used boat was in order and we found N3522 which served its purpose of getting us both "back on the water". With that mission accomplished it was time to sell the boat and look for the next boat. I will add that we sold this boat for a price that covered our investment (again we did our homework so not to take a major financial hit).

So when we look for a boat we use the 90% rule which has served us well and take our time going through the process since we cannot afford to make mistakes with our limited budget. While we are still in the process finalizing the next boat and unable to advise the make/model I can say that unless we feel the boat will meet the mission at a price we feel is fair and safe we will not sign a contract. I will also admit that I do enjoy designing / modifying existing designs and making a boat "our boat" which is all in the front end of the journey. Life has worked out that we have been able to do this a few times and have enjoyed the ride. Again, I hope what I have shared helps others starting out realize that doing your homework can pay benefits in the long run.

John
 
N4061 said:
Hello fellow boaters, well it appears my post worked in that it generated discussion and even a little debate. I would like to comment on one post related to those who forever chase their dream boat and never go boating.

John
Click to expand...

John

My remarks were not directed specifically at you. They were partially meant to further the previous post that boats mean something different to each person, and each of us gets his and her joy out of boats in different ways.

Every boat in every harbor represents someones dreams. It may be the dream of the single dad like the one I chatted with this last weekend that wants to have something he and his adolescent sons can enjoy together. Or it can be the dreams of world cruising that the owner of the N46 four slips down from me has. Or my dreams of cruising the coastlines of the americas that I keep bugging my wife about getting started on.

The point of my comment was twofold. It was also meant to make people think. To make people realize that its not the lack of a specific brand or type of boat thats holding back their long distance cruising dreams. Its them. Its that life that has a nasty way of getting in the way of ones dreams.

I myself realized that two years ago. I had a dream of cruising to Mexico from Alaska and exploring all along the way. Then going further, through the canal and on to the eastern seaboard. So I bought a boat that could make the trip. Its not the best boat nor is it the worst. But It can make the trip safely. Then I looked myself in the mirror, wondered why I wasn't setting sail and realized that now that I had the boat, life had to catch up with me to realize my cruising dreams. I realized that having the boat didn't make me ready, it just took away an excuse for not cruising.

So, while my comment was not aimed at you specifically, it was aimed at all of us that have long distance cruising dreams, myself included. I am keeping the dream alive and nurturing it through regular boating, skill building, spare parts stocking, and preparing my self and my wife to be able to live those dreams while we are still young enough to actually accomplish them. You are nurturing your boating dreams in your own way, as is every other boater out there.

The ones that I applaud are the Larrys, and the Richards, and the Melanies, and Johns that take off, set sail, and actually live their dreams. They are the inspiration for the rest of us that are waiting for our turn.
 
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ksanders said:
John

My remarks were not directed specifically at you. They were partially meant to further the previous post that boats mean something different to each person, and each of us gets his and her joy out of boats in different ways.


Kevin, no worries or need for the post. Like you we have a passion for boating and feel blessed we have been able to live a life that included boats. Our main objective with our posts is to share experiences, mistakes and future plans for others to learn from.

John T
Click to expand...
 
After a week of business travel which included delayed flights, cancelled flights and ending up in a different airport then which I left only to get close to home its nice to talk about boats again. If nothing else this trip did confirm that we are doing down the right road related to the size, make and cost of the boat we focused upon. The older I get the more I realize how short life is and the desire to retire while I'm still young enough to do things keeps the boating budget in check. Talk about a balancing act of doing it now and still planning for tomorrow. Not easy for the average guy without deep pockets.
A quick update on our search: we selected the engine today and should have final cost numbers by next weekend which will then allow us to make the final decision. We have made over 50 changes to the basic boat spec sheet (a few changes that will impact tooling) and while we could go on forever I think we did enough. Will keep you posted!

John T.
 
Electric versus Gas Appliance

Well our search for an electric range went out the window this weekend after learning that the few units we were interested in were all 240V thus we didn't want to stretch the boat wiring costs. We have refocused on LP gas and looking at our options. We are looking at Miele and Thermador. For refrigerator / freezers we are also looking at U-line. Would appreciate any input on these or other brands.

John
 
>We have refocused on LP gas and looking at our options.<

A Marine stove should have a different operating style from a home or RV unit.

The knob should require a push to go on , and the low setting will have an adjustment to prevent inadvertant flame outs from a puff of wind.

You may have to look to euroland for a genuine marine burner set.

IN our RV we have a 120v unit and it is fine , multiple burners and oven.

The 120v elements are surprising in their heat output.

An RV unit could have fiddles or rails added and functioning pot clamps for the bumpy days.
 
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N4061 said:
Well our search for an electric range went out the window this weekend after learning that the few units we were interested in were all 240V thus we didn't want to stretch the boat wiring costs. We have refocused on LP gas and looking at our options. We are looking at Miele and Thermador. For refrigerator / freezers we are also looking at U-line. Would appreciate any input on these or other brands.

John
Click to expand...



None of the 110V induction cooktops float your boat?

-Chris
 
Things should be getting better for propane because 1 January no more open pilot lights on any gas appliances manufactured or imported in the USA. Long overdue. An RV oven-cooktop is just fine with me if I have a way to light the oven and burners manually w/o pilot lite. Lighting pilot lights is generally not easy needing to heat the bimetal device first and NO WAY will I allow an open flame in the cabin unattended. I like battery powered igniters. As for brackets and so forth, if it is too rough to cook with out brackets and guards it is time for microwave, ham sandwiches and so forth for it is too rough to cook anyway. 95%+ is at the dock or on the hook. PO put in an RV unit with a pilot lite for the oven......useless. New range is on the list, currently waiting to see the offerings are after the regulations kick in. I have solenoid remote gas control, safety bilge sniffer-alarm and exterior ventilated tanks. Currently using electric toaster oven, rail mounted Weber Q 100 grill.
 
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