NC Marina DESTROYED by fire!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss/c/1mBrx3DsSdZzHCLdpY4-hAhWOW! WRAL just showed a helicopter shot of the damage and it's nothing short of MASSIVE! 25 boats in covered slips are gone. 3 people injured. Fuel slick in Pamlico river.
<a href="http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/8897004/">
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/8897004/</a>

Tom-

*EDIT* Fxed link

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:51:04 AM

Sorry about the weird link, y'all, but they have pics there now... WOW! Seven live aboards displaced!

ugh that is so scary.* wow.* I'm glad no one was killed.

Ugly. That is the downside of a covered marina, one boat goes the rest of them probably will.

Seattle had a very large version of that a few years ago.

Has there been any determination of the cause yet? None was mentioned in the article.

it was probably caused by incomplete combustion of old low sulfur diesel fuel!!!!!!
HOLLYWOOD

Someone set the microwave for 30 minutes to make popcorn and then walked away.*<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="genmed"><tbody><tr><td width="100"></td><td width="40"> </td></tr></tbody></table>

Those of you with Texas connections may remember the New Years Eve back in the 80's (can't remember the year) when Watergate Marina's covered shed went up in flames. As in this NC case, one witness recalled that once the fire got into the rafters it was like a firestorm.

Doc wrote:*As in this NC case, one witness recalled that once the fire got into the rafters it was like a firestorm.

Click to expand...

I am surprised that building codes or underwriters don't require deluge systems to be installed in covered moorings.

*

If I had to guess, I'd say an unsafe space heater on one of the live-aboard boats.

"Marina Destroyed By Fire" is a gripping headline, but not quite accurate. Fire destroyed about 100' of one pier and damaged/totaled approx. 25 boats. A sailboat owner on another forum I'm on keeps his boat at that marina...the fire was on the dock across the fairway from his slip. His boat was not damaged.

I'd bet real money that it was started by an electrical problem...according to BOAT/US, 55% of boat fires are:

AC & DC wiring / appliance - 55%
DC Shorts / Wiring - 30%
DC engine voltage regulator 12%
AC appliance / heater - 4%
Shore power - 4%
AC wiring / panel - 2%
DC battery charger - 2%
AC power surge - 1%

Engines are responsible for another 24%...surprisingly, fuel only accounts for 8% and stoves <1%.

I'm guessing that docks don't have deluge systems because water and electrical wiring aren't the best combination until/unless power to the dock is turned off.




-- Edited by HeadMistress on Friday 7th of January 2011 04:57:35 PM

Confirmed... WRAL said that authorities will only say the fire was "electrical".

HeadMistress wrote:I'm guessing that docks don't have deluge systems because water and electrical wiring aren't the best combination until/unless power to the dock is turned off.

Click to expand...

Oh, yeah ... water is harder on the wiring than fire.*

HeadMistress wrote:

I'd bet real money that it was started by an electrical problem...according to BOAT/US, 55% of boat fires are:

AC & DC wiring / appliance - 55%

Click to expand...

Peggy---

Can you further define AC & DC wiring/appliance?* What are some examples?* Be nice to know what to look out for on our own boats.

Thanks,

*

Marin wrote:

Click to expand...

Peggy---

Can you further define AC & DC wiring/appliance?* What are some examples?* Be nice to know what to look out for on our own boats.

Thanks,

*

Marin!* Surely you aren't suggesting that you don't know what AC wiring is?* That you don't knpw what DC wiring is?* Or what an electrical appliance is?

Or maybe it's just that if it ain't about plumbing, I couldn't know anything about it???


And btw, Rick...** No...water isn't harder on wiring than fire, but* a live wire in water can certainly light YOUR fire...and wires will come loose beforet they burn.



-- Edited by HeadMistress on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:03:53 PM

HeadMistress wrote:Marin!* You can't be seriously suggesting that you don't know what AC wiring is?* That you don't knpw what DC wiring is?* Or what an electrical appliance is?

Click to expand...

No, bad wording on my part, sorry.* What I was asking for were some examples of how DC or AC wiring or appliances can cause fires.* Short circuits are specifically*called out further down the list you posted.* From this I assumed that wiring itself, and appliances themselves, have been sources of fires independent of short circuits.* So I was asking if you knew of any examples of how wiring or applicances have caused fires in the past.

Mike wrote:

The link below will take you to a post at the T&T list from a boat owner at the marina, present during the fire.

Ron Rodgers, the author, is a retired US Army Special Forces soldier who lives aboard his boat at the marina. I think his boat is a Willard, but I'm not sure. "George" is his dog.

Here is the link.

Mike
Merritt Island, FL.

Click to expand...

Dang! That is a heck of an account of what happened- can't imagine going through that! *Very glad to hear no one lost life or limb or serious injury...terrible to think of those that lost their home and possessions.

Welll...for starters, overloaded circuits--AC and DC...improper fusing...using Romex instead of stranded wire...wire nuts...frayed wiring....and my personal favorite, "I can't see any reason to pay $12.95 for that switch just because it says "marine" on the label when I can buy the same switch without the "marine" label at Home Depot for $6."

As for appliances...anything from a clothes dryer to a stove to a microwave to a space heater to a forgotten curling iron.

And I just realized that my first entry didn't retain its formatting....everything in the list below "AC & DC wiring / appliance - 55%"* is the breakdown that adds up to 55%.

Btw...I'm delighted to tell you that I've been invited to give seminars at the Puget Souhd Grand Banks rendezvous at Roche Harbor again this year.* And REALLY looking forward to it!!

"by HeadMistress on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:21:04 PM

-- Edited by HeadMistress on Friday 7th of January 2011 08:25:06 PM

I talked with the marina owner Mark McCotter tonight, a really nice fellow I knew from having work done there years ago, and he said they lost most of their largest and most unique boats. He mentioned in particular a Hershof and a pristine Elco. Sad that some of these just can't be replaced. Fantastic the human injuries were so minor. I'm in a covered slip and if it went up I'd only have one choice, swim!

HeadMistress wrote:No...water isn't harder on wiring than fire, but* a live wire in water can certainly light YOUR fire...and wires will come loose beforet they burn.

Click to expand...

You might want to rethink that idea ... a deluge system knocks down the fire before any wiring (or anything else) can be damaged, that is the reason they exist.

If the fire is caused by a dockside electrical issue then the point is moot, the fault will either trip the protective devices or the responders will. In any event, the fire is a far greater threat than electrical sources.

If there was more risk from electricity than fire, office buildings, apartments, stores, and ships would have breakers in the overheads rather than sprinklers or deluge nozzles.

Stick to heads.

I guess all the advice that water should never be used to fight an electrical fire is wrong:

http://www.fire-extinguisher101.com/

http://www.pge.com/microsite/safety_esw_ngsw/esw/emergency/fires.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_classes

Thank you for the suggestion.

According to the T&T post, the cause was a shore power connectionat the boat end. Those connectors are the most vulnerable in any marina. Ours has a permanent display set up to encourage people to check and replace their shore power connectors. The display has a couple of dozen in varying stages of burnout. They work themselves to the point where the current flow has to arc across a gap then melt some of the plastic, then start a fire. One actual fire in our Yacht club, at the boat end of the shore power cord, the insurance Co wrote the Sceptre 41 (sail) off, despite the owner getting the fire out quickly with little serious damage.
I have replaced mine, and I carry a spare, in case it shows signs of deterioration. My dock end has also showed burns, so has been replaced.

Fires like the Seattle fire have our harbour committee considering mandatory boat inspections, to be sure everyone has their electrical connections checked regularly, among other things. In a yacht club, that can be a condition of moorage.

The Vallejo Municipal Marina has both wooden and cement docks.* The cement ones rent for 20 percent more.* I'd expect the cement docks to be less suceptible to fires, so maybe I ought to opt for that.

HeadMistress wrote:I guess all the advice that water should never be used to fight an electrical fire is wrong:

Click to expand...

If it is an electrical fire that is good advice. Just as correct as the old adage about not using water on an oil fire. But, they are both general warnings for people who have no fire training so they will not kill themselves or make the problem larger.

Most of what the news media calls "electrical fires" are fires that start because overheated wiring or an arc fault ignites surronding flammable material. In either case, if and when the electrical power is removed the fire will continue to burn.

A true electrical fire which is almost unheard of outside an industrial or high energy setting is one that is associated with continuous arcing and fire until the power is removed at which point it will cease to exist. A switchboard fire is an example of a true electrical fire.

That marina fire may well have been caused (probably was caused) by an overloaded circuit or arc fault that ignited some other part of the boat. If that marina had a deluge system with a head or detector located above the boat, the damage would probably have been limited to that boat with the possibility of light damage to the ones either side of it.

That is why ferries have deluge systems on the car deck. If any kind of fire starts, electrical or gasoline, the heat triggers the deluge of water spray that knocks the fire down to prevent it spreading. Water in the proper form works great on everything except burning metals, some chemicals, and arcing electricity.

Even electrical distribution sites use water to protect large high voltage transformers:

http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/pubs/nrcc49485/nrcc49485.pdf

http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/fist/fist3_32/fist3-32.pdf

Water mist is becoming common in power distribution and electronics protection:

"The water mist proved to be less conductive than smoke encountered in the unsuppressed tests, and did not damage any electrical equipment within the switchgear module."

http://www.nafed.org/resources/library/wmist.cfm



-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 8th of January 2011 03:33:08 PM

koliver wrote:

According to the T&T post, the cause was a shore power connectionat the boat end.

Click to expand...

Being livaboards, we have seen more than our share of burnt electrical connectors on our boat. We have a washer and drier, and it's not unusual for us to be drawing 30 amps for several hours at a time.* The trouble with the current design of 30 amp twist lock cord connectors is that they rely on what I'll call spring loaded connections.* By that I mean that the tempered steel blades of the female part of the plug are designed to maintain contact with the male blades by spring force.* As the plugs age, corrode, get dropped in the water and in general get dirty, the electrical resistance is increased.* This resistance causes heat to develop in the plug.* As time goes on, they can get hot enough to take the temper out of the metal, causing the plug to loose it's spring force and contact with the male blades causing even more heat.* Eventually, the plug can begin to burn.* I'm sure most folks have seen a blackened, burnt out shore power cord before, and it's easy to imagine how this sets the boat on fire.* I have a multi pronged attack to the problem though.* First I inspect our plugs on a regular basis.* Almost every time I think of it, if there is a load on the system, I'll feel the plug for excessive heat.* I also will check it with my infrared thermometer that I use in the engine room.* In the rare occasion that the plug falls in the water, I immediately unplug it, rinse it with thoroughly with fresh water and dry it completely.* Despite all this, we have had our share of burnt plugs.* Here is a little known seceret, (don't tell anyone) Several times I have taken my burnt cord into West Marine and said "gosh, this doesn't look right, is this cord ok"? They have always replaced it under warranty.*

Better yet, there is an easy solution to this problem.* I have no connection with this company except for being a customer.* I no longer worry about burning up any more cords.* See here:

http://www.smartplug.com/

This new design totaly eliminates the problem, and the boat you save may be yours and your neighbors.............Arctic Traveller

Heartbreaking story.* Here is one of the boats lost; she was the last yacht of her design afloat.

www.myhermione.com

Arctic Traveller wrote:


koliver wrote:

According to the T&T post, the cause was a shore power connectionat the boat end.

Click to expand...

Being livaboards, we have seen more than our share of burnt electrical connectors on our boat. We have a washer and drier, and it's not unusual for us to be drawing 30 amps for several hours at a time.* The trouble with the current design of 30 amp twist lock cord connectors is that they rely on what I'll call spring loaded connections.* By that I mean that the tempered steel blades of the female part of the plug are designed to maintain contact with the male blades by spring force.* As the plugs age, corrode, get dropped in the water and in general get dirty, the electrical resistance is increased.* This resistance causes heat to develop in the plug.* As time goes on, they can get hot enough to take the temper out of the metal, causing the plug to loose it's spring force and contact with the male blades causing even more heat.* Eventually, the plug can begin to burn.* I'm sure most folks have seen a blackened, burnt out shore power cord before, and it's easy to imagine how this sets the boat on fire.* I have a multi pronged attack to the problem though.* First I inspect our plugs on a regular basis.* Almost every time I think of it, if there is a load on the system, I'll feel the plug for excessive heat.* I also will check it with my infrared thermometer that I use in the engine room.* In the rare occasion that the plug falls in the water, I immediately unplug it, rinse it with thoroughly with fresh water and dry it completely.* Despite all this, we have had our share of burnt plugs.* Here is a little known seceret, (don't tell anyone) Several times I have taken my burnt cord into West Marine and said "gosh, this doesn't look right, is this cord ok"? They have always replaced it under warranty.*

Better yet, there is an easy solution to this problem.* I have no connection with this company except for being a customer.* I no longer worry about burning up any more cords.* See here:

http://www.smartplug.com/

This new design totaly eliminates the problem, and the boat you save may be yours and your neighbors.............Arctic Traveller
Artic,

I saw the Smart Plug as an ad a couple of months ago and thought it was a great idea.* A little pricey but not unreasonable.

I presently and for the last several years have used Dielectric Grease on all of my shore power cords and it has done an outstanding job of keeping everything dry and connected.* I have several different types but it can be bought at any Radio Shack.

Several cords have gone bad in our marina and one of the reasons sighted by an electrician was there is a fair amount of stray current running through the ground system.* But the marina says it is not a problem and chooses to ignore it.

*

My power cord, like many, is right next to the stbd door, and often was a "tripper" when moving forward.** I am now using a right-angle connector,* which keeps the cord out of the way and cuts down on* twisting or pulling and causing possible damage to the connection.

McCotter's is only 5 miles down river from us -- fortunately we don't know anyone who's* boat was inviolved.





-- Edited by ARoss on Sunday 9th of January 2011 01:33:39 PM

JD wrote:

Several cords have gone bad in our marina and one of the reasons sighted by an electrician was there is a fair amount of stray current running through the ground system.* But the marina says it is not a problem and chooses to ignore it.

Click to expand...

That explains a lot. When we left there and put Skinny Dippin' up for work before we journeyed to our new home, there was, what I would say, an accelerated amount of depletion on our zincs and spotty corrosion on most of the underwater metal.

*

**BTW** JD and I were in the same marina until recently.


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 9th of January 2011 02:29:04 PM

Here is another of the vessels lost.* Sad, sad, sad.* Happy hour tonight is going to be double-shots.

www.classicpamlicocruises.com