Post account of Miami three boat crash.

Only weeks following separate fatal boat party incidents on a Key Biscayne sand bar, now comes a devastating crash off Diner Key, a great anchorage just about 15 minutes further south on Biscayne Bay. Diner Keyi is always fraught with danger on Holidays....hundreds of boats, this time a t-bone crash involving three boats, 20 people with 4 dead and three seriously injured. Here's the post-accident account link published on the Krogen site.

Witnesses recount harrowing aftermath of boat wreck on Biscayne Bay - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

I'm shocked, shocked I say, to read that alcohol might be involved!

If the driver of the boat that hit the other is found to have been impaired, he should be dragged behind a boat (not a trawler!), tied to and anchor of his choice and dropped overboard.

I've been in the July 4th chaos in Lake Union is Seattle twice now and am amazed something like this has not happened there. Something like 2,000 boats in a fairly mall lake with only two narrow outlets, and half of which is closed because of the fireworks barge. I saw 2 police boats and 2 CG Ribs.

Why not impose a temporary speed restriction to 6 mph at the fireworks locations. I know it would not stop a drunk but would make him obvious to the LEOs.

High Wire said:

Why not impose a temporary speed restriction to 6 mph at the fireworks locations. I know it would not stop a drunk but would make him obvious to the LEOs.

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Very good idea....spotting dangerous behavior early would be very beneficial.

It may be tough to enforce.... keeping up with many local and temporary boating regulations is hard to do and the typical violators would be the ones who wouldn't bother to check anyway.

Might be worth a try if it isn't already buried in some other rule...I remember from the NJ Boating Safety Class saying to slow Near marine Parades and regattas...but I didn't see it in the Marine Police Handbook so I'm not sure if it was tied to a reg or just "feel good" info in the workbook.

psneeld said:

Very good idea....spotting dangerous behavior early would be very beneficial.

It may be tough to enforce.... keeping up with many local and temporary boating regulations is hard to do and the typical violators would be the ones who wouldn't bother to check anyway.

Might be worth a try if it isn't already buried in some other rule...I remember from the NJ Boating Safety Class saying to slow Near marine Parades and regattas...but I didn't see it in the Marine Police Handbook so I'm not sure if it was tied to a reg or just "feel good" info in the workbook.

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Since this was FL's "worst ever" accident, some new rule is bound to come out of it. Temporary 6 mph speed restriction (or Slow Speed Minimum Wake) +/-2 hours of the event time in a designated area and a little press coverage would help.
Im not a fan of more rules but at the end of a fireworks show its pure insanity.

Is it a policing problem there? We have just as many bad boaters (if not more) in California as Florida. I'm thinkin' our water cops might be freer with citations than they are there. I help teach a court-ordered boating class and the fines are nothing to sneeze at, sometimes over a thousand dollars. Takin' a boating class does not absolve the boater from payin' the fine but it might help with the judge.

I'm sure this kind of figure 8 racing is not unusual in other cities, but at least in my minor experience, Miami is a place where not only do we have irresponsible persons piloting dangerous, high powered vessels, but it may be the first time they ever got behind the controls of anything like that. It's not just irresponsible persons, it's irresponsible wealth.

In Miami, a 30' center console is considered underpowered if it has less than 750hp.

That place is crazy on so many levels.

Ski in NC said:

In Miami, a 30' center console is considered underpowered if it has less than 750hp.

That place is crazy on so many levels.

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One of the many reasons why I always advise people who are doing the ICW to go outside and avoid Miami as much as possible (coming in at Government Cut, or going out at Government Cut). Even the ICW can get very crazy at times in that area! I have always figured that Miami is a good place to be from.

Even Lebron is skipping Miami nowadays!

Donsan said:

Even Lebron is skipping Miami nowadays!

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His loss. There is a lot of good boating areas in and around Miami. Plus lots of good food, good shopping and great people watching.

The bay between Biscayne and Largo is beuatiful. And thirty five years ago it offered some wonderful sailing, free of traffic and congestion.

Today, the people watching can be hazardous to ones health. Witness this thread. Too many testosterone-fueled individuals all trying to impress god only knows whom. Better to avoid that scene on the weekends / holidays to live another day free of headaches or worse.

I wonder if any of the earlier proposed methods of restricting stupidity will be enacted before the next Columbus Day Regatta?

35 years ago I had my sailboat in Coconut Grove and enjoyed the relative serenity of Biscayne Bay during the week.

I enjoyed the Columbus day events also.

I see no testosterone so far in this thread...not sure what is trying to be connected there unless you just mean the accident (and so far I've seen no facts or investigation results).

The rule makers know there's few things that can actually stop trouble makers without wrecking the experience for others.

Any early warning techniques that can identify BUI types is great..but to be honest..after years of being enforcement/assistance n the water...not much really helps till it's too late.

Like some DUIs...it's the neighbor that calls the police when the drunk is leaving the driveway that can be effective as anything...really check points work good too but everyone cries civil liberty with those....so if you see suspect activity..getting involved is really a big deterrent.

Anything going over 12 knots raises the hair on my neck. Regardless of the ColRegs, the chances of being able to avoid them begins to drop logarithmically while in a seven-knot boat.

markpierce said:

Anything going over 12 knots raises the hair on my neck. Regardless of the ColRegs, the chances of being able to avoid them begins to drop logarithmically while in a seven-knot boat.

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While I enjoy trawler speeds like you Mark...avoiding being hit by missiles usually goes up with mach speeds....

Outrunning danger has it's advantages.

Out thinking many of todays boaters either requires too much computing power or just a plain old short circuit...not sure when each would apply is the problem.

psneeld said:

35 years ago I had my sailboat in Coconut Grove and enjoyed the relative serenity of Biscayne Bay during the week.

I see no testosterone so far in this thread...not sure what is trying to be connected there unless you just mean the accident (and so far I've seen no facts or investigation results).

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Diner Key myself (42' Catalina.) Made many memories at Bananas while ashore. Understand it is long gone...

The post was in regard to the objects afloat, not the opinions contained herein concerning testosterone.

Once upon a time, two engines were considered sufficient. Then the H.P. numbers began increasing and so too the number of engines. Now it's four+ on some crazy boats. And not ocean racing I may add.

You can't legislate away stupidity. Sadly our elected officials attempt to and we see ever decreasing examples of Darwin's law being applied (achieved?) by the general population.

It would be sad to read of any constraints being enacted in the Bay but I fear that day is likely not too far off. Just as it has been in so many other areas of our lives.

To climb back out of this rabbit hole, I offer condolences and prayers to the families who lost loved ones as a result of this latest (unconfirmed) example that suggests boating under way and alcohol don't mix.

Boating and IRRESPONSIBLE use of alcohol don't mix...same as always....

Have never yet sounded the 5-short danger single, although there were several instances in hindsight I should have. Trouble is, things usually happen too fast. I need to be more assertive/forward-thinking.

I use it a lot when towing in confined waters and clueless boaters are making traffic difficult.

Trouble is..... for the early reports of this accident and others...they happen fast and the types of boats involved you probably couldn't hear the blasts and for sure the skippers probably had no clue if sober...let alone current state.

texasnielsen said:

Today, the people watching can be hazardous to ones health. Witness this thread. Too many testosterone-fueled individuals all trying to impress god only knows whom. Better to avoid that scene on the weekends / holidays to live another day free of headaches or worse.

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I wasn't really eluding to people watching on the water per say. Nor where the people involved in this accident people watching at the time of the accident. So I'm not sure what connection that has to this.

While I don't disagree that weekends and holidays can be very busy out on the water, most people don't have the luxury of only boating on the weekdays.

So for better or worse learning to deal with crowded boat conditions is a skill many have to develop like it or not.

psneeld said:

...
Trouble is..... for the early reports of this accident and others...they happen fast and the types of boats involved you probably couldn't hear the blasts and for sure the skippers probably had no clue if sober...let alone current state.

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No doubt.

After 50 years of boat ownership I have made it a practice to watch fireworks on July 4th holiday from land, at our dock, or from our private mooring in a nearby harbor. That pretty much "protects" us from the nut cases. Once, when the kids were young they nagged me enough to actually take the boat out to watch the fireworks. They ended at low tide and I was stunned at the number of boats that ran aground entering the harbor in the dark. That was it for me. Howard

Capt.Bill11 said:

....
So for better or worse learning to deal with crowded boat conditions is a skill many have to develop like it or not.

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I spent quite a bit of time on a 33 foot sail boat and on small power boats in South Florida which taught me to deal with crowded, shallow, and narrow waterways full of crazy, drunk and/or ignorant boaters decades ago.

We were out in WA recently on a very nice 50 footer that was like a space ship compared to what I was used too back in the day. It was interesting to me as I fell back into the groove of operating the boat on the wide, deep to infinity, and empty waterway. Compared to South FLA that is. I found myself keeping way to the right in the channel, though it was not required, since there was very little traffic and the channel was huge by ICW standards. And the water was soooooo deep out there! Dozens if not a hundred fathoms, not 4-6 feet! :lol: Some people got nervous on the boat when we had a bit less then 30 feet of water under the keel yet 2-3 feet was deep for us back in FLA.

The only boat that was sorta in the crazy column was a sail boat that was drifting the channel. Not a big deal since the channel was wide and deep but it was kinda hard to figure out what they were doing...

The view out of the back of the boat was sorta blocked by a dinghy which bothered me since I am so used to watching 360 degrees around the boat. I found myself sticking my head out of the pilot house to get a better view.

I was surprised at how quickly the old habits reappeared and I really missed being on a boat that size...

I surely do not miss the craziness of South FLA. I am sure it is worse now that when I lived there. I remember seeing a boat run into a navigation marker. Then there was the guy on a go fast boat that went speeding down a narrow water way at low tide. The channel even at high tide was smaller than his boat length and the channel twisted and turned every which way. How he did not kill himself or people on another boat amazes me.

Course, the worse thing I ever saw on a boat in South FLA, was an older, rather overweight, woman wearing a thong on the bow of the boat.

I learned to boat defensively in FLA...

The accident in dinner key is horrible but unfortunately they happen everywhere from time to time.

Later,
Dan

From my perspective more than 99% of boaters are pretty much just a hazard to themselves.....sure they can get under your skin and certainly in your way...but a high speed collision with you would take some work on your part too.

That other 1%...especially after dark are like most terrorists...dumber than rocks but a threat to many and just pray you aren't the one boating next to them when they go boom (in all the ways boating can ruin your day).

hmason said:

After 50 years of boat ownership I have made it a practice to watch fireworks on July 4th holiday from land, at our dock, or from our private mooring in a nearby harbor. That pretty much "protects" us from the nut cases.

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That's my practice.

What a senseless tragedy. There's so much we don't know. And if this is typical, much of what's been printed is probably flat-out wrong.

Still, a couple of things raised my eyebrows in the published story:

... he was leisurely motoring toward Paradise Point marina where he anchors his sailboat when he heard “a whack” about 100 yards away. When he looked up, he saw one boat speeding away from another, and then two flares go up.

Sabatier said he turned on his radio to issue “Mayday” calls.

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Wait, what? He was motoring at night through a crowded area with his radio off? If that's true, then my opinion of his experience just went down quite a bit.

“Everyone contributed their parts, but [rescuers] didn’t get there, it felt like, until forever,’’ Ortiz said. “It probably took 10 or 15 minutes.”

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10 or 15 minutes? How long did they THINK it would take to get the call, get a boat underway or identify the nearest boat already underway, and transit to the scene of the accident?

If that's really a direct quote, then the person who said it has no comprehension of the fact that things are different on the water. You don't call 911 and have an ambulance pulling alongside your boat in 5 minutes.

Edit: Re-reading it, my post sounds nit-picky and cold-hearted. Neither is my intent. When something this awful happens, I always want to know why. I want details. I want something I can learn from. It's hard when all you have is newspaper reports.

psneeld said:

Boating and IRRESPONSIBLE use of alcohol don't mix...same as always....

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This needs to be repeated! Boating and the use of Alcohol are a terrible mix in other words it's an accident waiting to happen.
Bill

High Wire said:

Temporary 6 mph speed restriction (or Slow Speed Minimum Wake) +/-2 hours of the event time in a designated area and a little press coverage would help.

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Why 6 rather than the (in my observation) customary 5?