Pump-out question

We have had trouble at 2 marinas now with getting a pump-out. We've only had our boat a little over a year and haven't been able to use it as much as we would like so have only had it pumped out 3 times, 2 of which failed. The last 2 times, we have had it pumped out it didn't work. The fellow this time said he didn't have a fitting that would work so to "push real hard". Anyway, is there something odd about the 1980 Hatteras pump-out deck connection that we don't know about. Sorry, this isn't a very fun question but it is a real pain having one our tanks fill up right after being "pumped out", twice now. This Hatteras does not have a macerator, so going out 3 miles won't help.
Thanks for any input. Patsy

Perhaps the tank is full of heavy sludge? I had problems with my old Mainship it ended up being a cracked Y valve. It worked fine through my H-N-T Purasan but it wouldn't allow the pump out boat to pull much if anything out of the tank. Once I found the leak, the pump out boat guy held the valve/ junction to my deck fitting and I went below and could here the air being sucked through the cracked diverter valve. So you could have anything from a clogged tank, a clogged vent line, to lose hose clamps, even a deck fitting with a crack in the collar. It doesn't sound like you have a Y diverter valve but I might be wrong? A clogged vent line would be high on my list for things to check.
Bill

Does the tank have an access hatch to peek in? Is there any level gauge? Can you tap on the side of the tank? I cant believe Hatteras did not put a hatchcover there somewhere.
The tap will sound dull under water and hollow above.
If its full and wont pump out, you can make up a "honey dipper" hose to connect to the pump out unit and go in from the access hatch or level gauge fitting opening if there is one. When you don't have, improvise.

It's going to be pretty hard to diagnose this over the Internet, but it's possible the tank vent is plugged. If air can't get in to replace the sewage, you can't suck the sewage out. Vent filters are notorious for becoming plugged, especially it they ever get wet.

If you need an adapter for the deck fitting you can either buy one or change the deck fitting to a standard one.

High Wire said:

Does the tank have an access hatch to peek in? Is there any level gauge? Can you tap on the side of the tank? I cant believe Hatteras did not put a hatchcover there somewhere.
The tap will sound dull under water and hollow above.
If its full and wont pump out, you can make up a "honey dipper" hose to connect to the pump out unit and go in from the access hatch or level gauge fitting opening if there is one. When you don't have, improvise.

Click to expand...

I've used a temperature sensing "gun" (About $30 @ HF) to detect the demarcation between liquid and air in the tank.

skidgear said:

I've used a temperature sensing "gun" (About $30 @ HF) to detect the demarcation between liquid and air in the tank.

Click to expand...

Good idea, which reminds me of something I need to put up as a seperate post.

First thing I did was go out and buy one of these.



Screws into my boat fitting and compatible with the pumpout hose connections.

If tank is old and sat for quite a while then as another post mentioned it may be 1/2 filled with sludge. As another post mentioned make sure your vent is clear. Then I recommend 3/4 filling to tank with plain water and getting into some choppy water for a couple hours at least. That will likely loosen the sludge by internal-tank wave action When you find a good pump out location (with correct fittings) evacuate it, fill on the spot with water and evacuate it a second time. Hope that helps!

BTW - What gallon tank do you have and what type toilet(s)? It may be filling quickly because it is not too large, and/or, because the toilets pump too much water during flush. Let us know about those two instances as well as how it turns out for you.

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

FlyWright said:

First thing I did was go out and buy one of there.

Screws into my boat fitting and compatible with the pumpout hose connections.

Click to expand...

Best 30$ I have every spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum

Hi, sorry to butt in pardon the humour.
The fitting shown in a previous thread is called a male thread /male Camlock fitting for the uninitiated.
A simpler way to loosen up the sludge is to three quarter fill the tank with water.
Get a piece of stiff semi flexible plastic I/2 pipe long enough to reach the bottom of the tank and protrude from the top by about 18''.
Connect an airline with around 20 to 30 psi to this pipe and with the air pressure agitating the sludge inside the tank try turning the pipe slowly while pushing down gently, this will cause the pipe to flex slightly and slide around the inside of the bottom of the tank agitating the sludge.
Pump out and repeat the process until all your getting is water, normal usage and the wave action at sea will dislodge the rest of it over time.

I would respectfully suggest that in the interests of preserving your marriage/relationship that you donate some money for retail shopping during this operation.

The same method can also be used to clean the majority of sludge out of fuel tanks with no access hatch, remove the fuel level sender switch and use the access hole, preferably careening the boat overnight alongside a jetty to let the sediment/sludge/water slide down toward the access hole side of the tank.

Thank you!

Thanks for the responses! This gives us something to think about. I will show this thread to the captain, my husband. The adapter is certainly something we should try. It sounds like a good thing to have around anyway. Good info about heavy sludge as well. I will definitely leave all the looking around below to the Captain. Our tanks are 56 gallons total, so 28 apiece? I appreciate your responses and the humor.

If there is a Tractor Suppy Store in your area look for the adapters there. I believe they are about $8. They are available in different thread sizes so bring your plug if you can. They are used on farms for transfering fertilizer and herbicides on large sprayers.
I could never find one to fit the (metric?) thread of my deck pumpout fitting so changed the deck fitting to a std size. A fairly easy job on my boat.

Poggly57 said:

This Hatteras does not have a macerator, so going out 3 miles won't help.

Click to expand...

Plugged vent or vent filter, buy an adapter, deal with sludge mechanically, all good suggestions.

There's maybe another way to deal with sludge. We've recently been trying a treatment product called Zaal Noflex Digester, which is said to dislodge sludge. I don't have enough time with it to tell, but it does appear to be gradually cleaning the discoloration at the bottom of our bowl... so maybe it's doing something useful in the tank as well.

I highlighted your statement about not having a macerator... 'cause that seems to be an unusual set up? Anyway, there's a thing about having a macerator or at least a thru-hull discharge. If you were to leave the seacock open (in a system like that) after pumping overboard, it's possible sea water would come back into the tank. And the tank would be full again...

-Chris

Poggly57 said:

Thanks for the responses! This gives us something to think about. I will show this thread to the captain, my husband. The adapter is certainly something we should try. It sounds like a good thing to have around anyway. Good info about heavy sludge as well. I will definitely leave all the looking around below to the Captain. Our tanks are 56 gallons total, so 28 apiece? I appreciate your responses and the humor.

Click to expand...

I believe it was mentioned in op that your boats tank(s) simply cannot be pumped out correctly. Next post of a member mentioned perhaps tanks are somewhat filled with gunk. Well, that thing may be true. However, have you conclusively determined they are considerably filled with gunk?

Too quick filling of tank during normal use may happen due to too much water usage per flush. How do you know when they are full?? By sighting through a translucent tank’s side or by fill-level-indicator on boat? If it is by sight – upon getting a really good pump out accomplished and refilling with water to immediately pump it out again - hubby should upon completion be able to use high powered flash light against translucent tank side to see if lower portion of tank remained full. If that is not an option and the fill-level-indicator is all that is available; then after first pump out and as tank is being refilled with water for second pump out to flush its insides you should be watching the level-indicator closely to see if it is reading correctly. It may be giving you a false reading of full.

I recommend:

1. Try to determine if too much of a sludge level actually exists in tank,
2. Get evacuation hole set up so it can work with different size pump out nozzles,
3. Provide a post letting us learn brand/model toilet(s) on boat and whether they are elect or manual as well as fresh or salt water flushed; and,
4. If you guys get too “pooped” doing this all or efforts become too “poopie” to withstand... contact a certified marine sanitation expert. Like from Raritan or another 1st class marine toilet manufacturer. http://www.raritaneng.com/

An expert on site check-up at your boat can give you considerable information about your current system as well as ways to go for improvement.

Best Luck! - Art

Our holding tank, 45 Gal Poly, has a 6" inspection deck plate on the top. Every so often I'll stay in a marina with "in slip pumpout" I pump out then take the cover off and stick a garden hose with a high pressure nozzle in there and spray all over the bottom, sides, and corners. Then pump out again, this helps keep it clean. It can also be done at a regular pumpout station if it is not busy.

Depending on the pump out hose location it might not be possible to pump out the last 2" of the tank. This goes for tanks that have the pump out hose located on the side of the tank. You have a 1.5" pump out hose usually about 1/2" inch to 1" above the base of the tank. My holding tanks are configured this way. If your tank has the pump out hose on the top you can usually get most of the tank's contents removed. Either way at some point you will lose vacuum due to the pump out hoses location in relation to the bottom of the holding tank. All the more reason to use Enzyme producing products like OrdorLOS.
Bill

If you do have a side fitting on the bottom of your tank...if possible... put a drop loop close to the tank.

This allows all but the very bottom to drain into the loop and be sucked/pumped out.

Can't guarantee it orks all the time but has worked for many.

I read somewhere at some point that someone ( how is that for ambiguity ) pumped the liquid out, added digester then filled the tank with ice cubes and took the boat out for a run.. the digester went at the sludge and the ice beat it to submission then melts. I had a crusted up tank in our sea ray that I cleaned with oxyclean which I left in the tank to soak for a week.. it was totally clean after pumping. Someone also recommended adding downey fabric softener.. it worked on the tank in the Ocean Alexander... and smelled good too
HOLLYWOOD

hollywood8118 said:

I read somewhere at some point that someone ( how is that for ambiguity ) pumped the liquid out, added digester then filled the tank with ice cubes and took the boat out for a run.. the digester went at the sludge and the ice beat it to submission then melts. I had a crusted up tank in our sea ray that I cleaned with oxyclean which I left in the tank to soak for a week.. it was totally clean after pumping. Someone also recommended adding downey fabric softener.. it worked on the tank in the Ocean Alexander... and smelled good too
HOLLYWOOD

Click to expand...

I know the ice cubes is an old RVer trick....pump out, fill'er up with ice and go find a nice, bumpy road.

FF mentioned it awhile back....

Not sure if a boats motion is quick enough for ice to really do the trick but it's a cheap enough try if you are getting underway anyhow.

First, before you go to all the trouble to try to clean sludge out of the tank, find out if that's the actual problem. If the vent is clogged, trying to clean imaginary sludge from the tank won't do a thing to solve the problem. Air has to be able to get into the tank (through the vent) to replace sewage that's being sucked out.

If there's a vent filter, remove it and see if you can evacuate the tank with the dock pumpout machine. The through hull fitting on a tank vent often gets clogged by insects. This is something you can easily see and clear.

If you get a proper adapter and a strong pumpout machine and the vent is clogged, it's possible to implode the holding tank by drawing a strong vacuum. You don't want to do that.

BTW: If the tank outlet is blocked by sludge you will have a hard time putting ice cubes into the tank. The only other way would be to try and flush them and I doubt that's going to work.

Like Ron said. Before going into exotic problems verify the vent is clear.

I suggested after making sure the vent is clear using boiling water into the holding tank. Boiling water will help dissolve or dislodge sludge build up.
Bill

Billylll said:

I suggested after making sure the vent is clear using boiling water into the holding tank. Boiling water will help dissolve or dislodge sludge build up.
Bill

Click to expand...

Sounds like it needs an enzyme treatment.

windmill29130 said:

Sounds like it needs an enzyme treatment.

Click to expand...

I also suggested using OdorLos that product has worked great for me over the years.
Bill

Thanks for the great ideas!

Thanks again! We're heading home today. It will be good to see our pets and family. Can't wait to get back to the garden, either. It's going to be pretty weedy.
We managed to pump out some, yesterday. Hubby has to push down pretty hard to get good suction. This pump out was after going outside for a few hours when returning to our home port. Maybe it loosened some stuff up. We had to cut the pump out short because of lightning. My hubby tells me the vent is clear. We will run by the local West Marine and buy an enzyme product before we leave. Maybe when we get back things will be better. If the enzyme doesn't help, we'll think more when we return. He's also going to buy one of the adapters suggested, if they have one, otherwise, we'll order one. Happy cruising to all! Patsy

Many many years ago when I was a real rookie I thought I had a clogged vent. No problem, disconnect the deck vent fitting and blow into it...It wasn't clogged as I quickly found out.

I've used this from an RV website
---------------------------------------
USE WATER SOFTENER, DETERGENT, and CHLORINE BLEACH
This stuff is amazing and it works. Buy a couple of boxes of powdered water softener at the grocery store. You'll find it located with or near the laundry detergent products. I prefer Calgon Water Softener because it dissolves quickly in water. Cheaper water softeners work just as well but dissolve more slowly. Dissolve two (2) cups of the water softener in a gallon of hot water. Then, pour the solution down the drain into the empty tank. Use two cups of softener for each wastewater tank in your RV. The tank's drain valve should be closed otherwise the softened water will just drain out. Then use the tank(s) normally until it is full and drain it normally. Add a cup of laundry detergent to the black (commode) water tank at the same time you add water softener. This will help clean the tank. The gray water tanks should already contain soap through normal use. Water softener makes the solid waste let go from the sides of the tanks. If you've ever taken a shower in softened water you know that after rinsing the soap from your body your skin will feel slick. That's because all the soap rinses away with soft water. Softened water also prevents soap scum from sticking in the tub. Get the connection? With softened water gunk washes away instead of sticking. The same thing applies to your RV's wastewater tanks.
------------------------------------------------------------

I guess the RV methods good for cleaning a sludged up tank but it's terrible for those of us that have the proper enzyme's that keep us Odorloss. Bleach pretty much kills all bacteria and enzymes good and bad. It might take a few tanks of waste and water to get the tank back in balance. Boats unlike RV's have their waste tanks pretty much located inside the vessel an RV the tanks are external to the living quarters.
Something to think about?
Bill

Bill,
Yes, It was a one time shot for me when I purchased the boat. I'm a big fan of Oderloss

I can "second" the Noflex Digester (we got it from Marine Sanitation in Seattle). We used it originally (3 years ago) to dissolve the 2" layer of solid sludge in the bottom of the tank and have used it ever since to keep the tank clean and odor free. I am sold on it.

Marty...................

P.S. I do realize that was not the original issue, I think the vent is the most likely culprit but that if just a "first guess".