Hotplates and ovens

I have a sniffer in my bilge piped in solenoid controlled propane range and it has a thermocoupled pilot light system...a true curse. The government has announced pilot lights are history and other lighting systems will be available soon. I have to light a pilot light every time I wish to use the oven if I turn off the gas at the tank because I lose the pilot light. I do not like a pilot light due to the open flame in the boat 24/7 so after using the stove I throw the switch and out goes the pilot light. Here is the question, insofar as the manufactures have not caught up, does any of you out there know of a reasonably priced 2 foot range with electronic ignition in the oven?
I have done a search, I have not removed the stove, (yet) to try to find a way to override the thermocoupled system. I have yet to find an electronic ignition system ...Maybe a spark plug and...well maybe.
Open for suggestions.

They do exist, as I have recently been advised that when I go to sell my boat, and to do so it will need a new 'gas certificate', our trusty 4 burner, manually lit stove/oven with flame out protection only in the oven, will no longer pass the recent retrospective regulation change which now says every boat stove must have electric start, (i.e. no pilot light), and flame out auto shut-off. So, even tho I have sniffers and we turn off the cylinder with a switched remote solenoid at the cylinder, as you describe, I am going to have to replace the whole cooker, and I am not amused.

It's this damn trend govt agencies have to try and make everything idiot proof, and that's just not possible. They don't seem to give a damn about the cost and inconvenience these retrospective changes cause. The management of waste is another example.

Must admit have never had a gas oven, mainly because of that same problem.
new gas certificate OK with flame cut outs on burners and sniffers in bilge and under cooker.
Had to get rid of gas hot water due to same regs.
Best cooker is BBQ on aft deck and convection/microwave in galley along with domestic 4 burner (with Wok burner) gas cook top with electric ignition and auto flame out shut off.

Galley is a treat.
Cheers
Benn

Our Italian made imported "SMEV" brand stove, 3 burners on top, oven which doubles as a grill or toaster, has electronic ignition to all burners, oven incl. Maybe it gets imported there. The "no flame auto propane cut off" satisfies our insurers requirements.

You could think long and hard about whether you really need an oven. Here in Qld they just make the whole cabin hot so aren't something you want to use if there is an alternative.

I had the pilot light in oven issue, which drove me nuts. When the solenoid switch was turned on you had to light the pilot light in the oven or the sniffer would detect the gas within a couple of minutes and trigger the solenoid to turn off. So the pilot light made it a hassle to use the cooktop.

I decided I did not need an oven in the galley, quite happy to use the BBQ up on the bot deck for roasts, pizza as well as conventional BBQ use. So out came the cooktop/oven combo, replaced with an Eno 3 burner cooktop. The space liberated by removing the oven became two deep drawers.

I had to do that after getting back to Oz as I needed a gas certificate for Qld rego. That process was a bit painfull as the brand new solenoid and regulator I installed in the US did not have an Australian Standard number and both had to be replaced. Fortunately, when we rebuilt the gas locker to be compliant and I ran new gas line to the galley I went to some trouble to get new line with an AS number stamped on it. I agree with Pete that there is a lot of bureaucracy-gone-mad in some of the regs we have to comply with.

Because of price and safety concerns...

When I originally ripped out the PO's long neglected, non-working princess electric stove and oven....I needed something quick and cheap.

I bought 2 commercial grade, electric hot plates and a toaster oven. The plan was for a convection microwave but size and cost weren't gonna happen that first year.

After 2 years of OK use, the electric load and electric while anchored was an issue. So I compromised and bought a propane 3 burner cooktop (pretty inexpensive when on sale) and kept the toaster oven with the convection microwave still possibly in the future.

I thought that the use any time anywhere propane cook top and an electric toaster oven that could be used when charging batteries with the genset or anytime at dock gave me enough flexibility and met my budget targets.

Mule said:

I have a sniffer in my bilge piped in solenoid controlled propane range and it has a thermocoupled pilot light system...a true curse. The government has announced pilot lights are history and other lighting systems will be available soon. I have to light a pilot light every time I wish to use the oven if I turn off the gas at the tank because I lose the pilot light. I do not like a pilot light due to the open flame in the boat 24/7 so after using the stove I throw the switch and out goes the pilot light. Here is the question, insofar as the manufactures have not caught up, does any of you out there know of a reasonably priced 2 foot range with electronic ignition in the oven?
I have done a search, I have not removed the stove, (yet) to try to find a way to override the thermocoupled system. I have yet to find an electronic ignition system ...Maybe a spark plug and...well maybe.
Open for suggestions.

Click to expand...

My Force 10 range/oven has an electronic ignition system and it's fourteen years old. How old is your stove?

Anyway, the electronic ignition system stopped working and I haven't bothered trying to fix it other than replacing the battery which didn't help.

I bought a grill lighter (commonly used for lighting gas grills) and that's what we use to light the stove or oven. We've been doing this for five years or so. It's a cheap and simple solution.

That is the system for the oven and cooktop we are using. Trouble is that when lighting the oven pilot light is that you have to get into a very, very awkward position, reach waaaay back into the oven while holding down the "pilot light" button. This "assume the position" must be held until the thermocoupler is heated sufficiently to keep the pilot on. No gas passes to the main burner until this is done. As it stands now I am going to get a propane torch to light it with until I replace.

Peter, when it comes time to sell, I'd consider just disconnecting the stove/oven and calling it inoperative. Then the next buyer has the choice to replace or reconnect. I don't think we have the same law here, but it could be just around the corner for all I know.

My previous boat was a Clipper 34, same as Pete's. It had the same type of oven and I was quite happy with it.Our present IG 36 had the oven replaced with a microwave by the PO during a major refit.

At first I missed the oven but soon came to feel the three burner unit with a quality BBQ and microwave set up was far more useful.

I really like having the microwave tucked under the bench as bench space is limited on a boat as it is.

So Pete, my question is do you use the oven much?, if not get rid of it and put a microwave in its place( assuming of course you have a good BBQ already) Oh, and of course you need an inverter.

Andy,
Has I previously stated I have the BBQ and the Convection/Microwave.
I love my BBQ but there are days that the wind is a bit to strong and it can't be used and so cooking is done inside. this is when the Convection/microwave come on strong.
I have done full roast dinners in this unit when required and no problems, OK the gen set is going but hey it can't be heard over the jingling of glasses and laughter, all is good with the world and the wind is outside.
Cheers
Benn

Andy G said:

My previous boat was a Clipper 34, same as Pete's. It had the same type of oven and I was quite happy with it.Our present IG 36 had the oven replaced with a microwave by the PO during a major refit.

At first I missed the oven but soon came to feel the three burner unit with a quality BBQ and microwave set up was far more useful.

I really like having the microwave tucked under the bench as bench space is limited on a boat as it is.

So Pete, my question is do you use the oven much?, if not get rid of it and put a microwave in its place( assuming of course you have a good BBQ already) Oh, and of course you need an inverter.

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Thanks for the advice, Benn and Andy. I have already worked out we don't really need the oven. We can use our Cobb cooker for that sort of thing as well as for grilling. However, we don't have enough house batt reserve to run a microwave on an inverter, and do not have a genny. Still, I think we could get by with the Cobb and a 3 burner, flame protected cooktop & grill.

I have also figured out the space gain Brian alluded to…however…

Those burner tops are about $500 here…and I was just looking at an R E Edwards catalogue, and you can get essentially what we have now, i.e. 4 burner cooktop, grill and oven, full size in effect, taking up the same space, saving on new joinery, just plug in and play, so to speak, and they are only $650..! Still considering...

Peter B said:

Those burner tops are about $500 here…and I was just looking at an R E Edwards catalogue, and you can get essentially what we have now, i.e. 4 burner cooktop, grill and oven, full size in effect, taking up the same space, saving on new joinery, just plug in and play, so to speak, and they are only $650..! Still considering...

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Actually that does make sense Pete. $650. No modifications needed. No need for an inverter or genset, and no battery issues.

I was really fond of my old Clipper.

PS she now lives up in your part of the world, if you see her give her a wave, she's called 'Amadeus', the dingy was called 'Wolfgang'.

Exercising the generator to cook never looked so good! This just killed any more thoughts on replacing my seaward princess electric with a propane model, the $100.00 yearly increase in insurance was the 1st death blow.

Peter B said:

(snip)
Those burner tops are about $500 here…and I was just looking at an R E Edwards catalogue, and you can get essentially what we have now, i.e. 4 burner cooktop, grill and oven, full size in effect, taking up the same space, saving on new joinery, just plug in and play, so to speak, and they are only $650..! Still considering...

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Pete
Make sure you read the appliance manual before buying. All of the domestic ones I saw had a statement to the effect 'not for marine use' in their installation/user manual, despite having auto flame cutouts. Those few little words will void your insurance..... That's why I ponied up the outrageous cost for the Eno at Whitworths.

It seems the insurance companies and bureaucrats are cracking down on propane stoves.
I am surprised that they haven't worried about metho stoves. Although I am happy with mine, if a person is not familiar with how to preheat the burner, a fire is almost guaranteed..
I don't allow anyone to use it until I have given them the full "training course" in usage of the stove, fire extinguishers and fire blanket.
No its not idiot-proof, but I manage the risks adequately.

I haven't come across any scuttlebutt about insurance companies targeting propane stoves in Oz.

Am I missing something?

Andy
No targeting that I'm aware of. But a non-compliant propane instal will give them an out and force you to prove it wasn't a factor in any fire incident. That may not b easy.

But I am puzzled why the domestic and many RV appliances are labelled 'not for marine use'. What is the higher standard that they don't meet?

Andy G said:

I haven't come across any scuttlebutt about insurance companies targeting propane stoves in Oz.

Am I missing something?

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Ditto with respect to US insurance companies.

We have a conventional stove/oven set-up, propane tank in a locker on the upper deck, electric solenoid shutoff at the regulator followed by a pressure meter. Oven / stove has electric ignition with thermal couples but at times with have had to use a manual lighter.

Just don't see any significant risk here from the propane, the gasoline for the outboard and my electric wiring have more potential for accidental or hidden dangers.

Will concede that if the owner is not maintaining his/her system then anything can happen.

Insequent said:

Andy
No targeting that I'm aware of. But a non-compliant propane instal will give them an out and force you to prove it wasn't a factor in any fire incident. That may not b easy.

But I am puzzled why the domestic and many RV appliances are labelled 'not for marine use'. What is the higher standard that they don't meet?

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I suspect, Brian, in a word…rust. However, the Chef gas oven/cooker we now have, and has been in the boat at least 20 yrs, has virtually no corrosion anywhere, and what there is, is purely cosmetic.

Insequent said:

Pete
Make sure you read the appliance manual before buying. All of the domestic ones I saw had a statement to the effect 'not for marine use' in their installation/user manual, despite having auto flame cutouts. Those few little words will void your insurance..... That's why I ponied up the outrageous cost for the Eno at Whitworths.

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That could be the killer Brian, although the reasons are probably not really any more valid with respect to a domestic gas cooker as to the commonly used ceramic AC electric hotplates. Ie not made for marine use, but perfectly fine, because in boats like ours, they are no more exposed to salt air than those in seaside cottages. However, I will check that out carefully, and actually, installing just the cooktop burners like you did, and getting the extra space for drawers, has its attractions.

Andy G said:

Actually that does make sense Pete. $650. No modifications needed. No need for an inverter or genset, and no battery issues.

I was really fond of my old Clipper.

PS she now lives up in your part of the world, if you see her give her a wave, she's called 'Amadeus', the dingy was called 'Wolfgang'.

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I've seen her Andy. I remember that name as it has a certain 'majesty' about it.

Guys,
I got a new gas certificate with the installation of my new Whirlpool iXelium gas cook top and the original certificate was issued with the St George domestic gas cook top I installed when building.
Not sure on the not for marine use but have not seen it on any of the ones I have installed.
Once you have the gas certificate that's the insurance side tied up.

Most cruising power boats over about 50' will have domestic style galley hard ware including cook tops and ovens as marine stuff will just not cut the mustard when catering for 6 or more people. It's a size thing.
Most of the installations I have done or seen on larger boats/ships then go to commercial equipment that is the same as your local restaurant or hotel.
Go figure.

Cheers
Benn

Andy G said:

I haven't come across any scuttlebutt about insurance companies targeting propane stoves in Oz.Am I missing something?

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When I insured with Club Marine (Allianz) I had to provide a Certificate from a qualified person that the propane system was in safe working order. (Turned out it wasn`t, the "qualified" person used incompatible threads at the bottle connections and it later began to leak, I had to replace the fittings.)
I expect to have to provide a fresh certificate next year when the every 5 year insurance survey is due.

Propane Locker

Bay Pelican said:

Ditto with respect to US insurance companies.

We have a conventional stove/oven set-up, propane tank in a locker on the upper deck, electric solenoid shutoff at the regulator followed by a pressure meter. Oven / stove has electric ignition with thermal couples but at times with have had to use a manual lighter.

Just don't see any significant risk here from the propane, the gasoline for the outboard and my electric wiring have more potential for accidental or hidden dangers.

Will concede that if the owner is not maintaining his/her system then anything can happen.

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Marty,

Good thread, this.

We've got a propane cookstove with the propane tank in a compartment on the flying bridge. "In a compartment" is definitely not "in a propane locker," and we've been reading up on the safety hazards associated with an unsecured, uncontained propane tank. We're looking into retrofitting the tank into a propane locker. However, we are not sure where to keep it. Marty, you say that your propane locker is on the flying bridge. How does it vent or drain (not sure of the correct terminology). If we keep the propane locker on the flying bridge in the open air, it that sufficient, or do we need to somehow attach a hose so that it drains out a scupper or something? Obviously only need it to "drain" if there is a gas leak.

So much to learn!

Thanks in advance, and if there is a better thread for me to be reading, I would be delighted to be pointed that way.

Michelle

Michelle, It needs to be vented to an outside area...drain does not apply here. Although the liquid you hear swishing around in the tank is indeed a liquid, it becomes a gas once it reaches atmospheric pressure...hence nothing to "drain". For example...take a "Bic" lighter and depress the trigger without igniting it and the gas will hiss as it comes out the orifice yet it is in a liquid form in the "tank" inside the lighter.

Rardion,

Got it, I was thinking "drain" because it is heavier than air so will "flow" downhill ... but if we just need to make sure it is vented to the great outdoors, it sounds like the flying bridge will work great (we have a lot of great outdoors up here!).

What part of Louisiana? I went to college in Lafayette and my husband and I were down for a visit last spring. Started in New Orleans, went down to Grand Isle, then through Thibodeau on the way to Lafayette to visit old profs. We loved the drive up the bayou past all the shrimp boats. It was a great time. Love your state.

Michelle Hale nee Bonnet

Greetings,
Mr Pav. I think your use of the term "drain" was more correct that you suspect. Propane is indeed heavier than air and will flow downhill. Picture this: Your propane tank is in a container/locker with a vented top and a leak develops. The container/locker will fill up with propane and only exit when it reaches the vent on top so you have, in essence a "bucket" of propane. Potential kaboom with a nearby spark source and in the proper concentrations. Locate your "vent" as a drain at the bottom of the container.
Our propane locker has a fume detector installed. Cheap insurance IMO.
In a former life the facility I worked in had both propane and hydrogen detectors. Propane (heavier than air) at floor level, hydrogen (lighter than air) at ceiling level.

Pavane said:

Rardion,

Got it, I was thinking "drain" because it is heavier than air so will "flow" downhill ... but if we just need to make sure it is vented to the great outdoors, it sounds like the flying bridge will work great (we have a lot of great outdoors up here!).

What part of Louisiana? I went to college in Lafayette and my husband and I were down for a visit last spring. Started in New Orleans, went down to Grand Isle, then through Thibodeau on the way to Lafayette to visit old profs. We loved the drive up the bayou past all the shrimp boats. It was a great time. Love your state.

Michelle Hale nee Bonnet

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Michelle,

Our propane bottle was under the flying bridge dash when we bought our boat. Then one day I opened the closet in the Vee berth and the smell of propane about knocked me out. We had developed a leak and the propane went down the control chase from the upper helm into the closet which is also where the electrical panels are located. I immediately moved the bottle and made a new storage place.

The hole in the bottom of the seat is a little bigger than the tank so that works as the drain.

My propane bottle is held within a fake stack. Any gas leakage will go overboard. Here with top of stack and bottle removed: