Bronze Thru hulls and real seacocks

I plan on getting a bottom job done this winter and I want to replace all thru hulls with bronze and bronze seacocks.I would like to have these all before starting the job . I know they can be pricey so I want to start collecting them this summer and kinda spread the cost out over the next few month's . I'm hoping the yard will let me purchase my own and and just charge me for install . What brand do most of you use and pictures always help . Thanks in advance for any suggestions .

This is what I used a few years ago. Size accordingly, this is just an example.
Groco Full-Flow Ball-Type Seacock

And this
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|2234277|2234278&id=211517

The Groco Seacocks that Jleo has recommended are well made and a good value.
If I were installing new seacocks today, that's what I would use.

Another option is to use a Groco Flanged Adapter with a Groco Ball Valve. This essentially allows you to make a seacock with a replaceable valve.

I know a better place to buy them than Defender, but forum rules prevent me from telling you.

Greetings,
Mr. PM. I'm partial to tapered cone seacocks but an internet search only turned up one source. Maybe nobody makes them any more. Blakes Seacocks

Just saw this thread. If you need a 1" seacock LarryM is selling one.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/grocco-bv-1000-1-full-flow-ball-valve-14113.html#post243350

If you're on a really tight budget, the Groco FBV series is pretty good and a lot cheaper. Not quite as massive as the BV series but I've never heard of one breaking.

RTF, Spartan still makes them but they are pretty pricey.

HopCar said:

The Groco Seacocks that Jleo has recommended are well made and a good value.
If I were installing new seacocks today, that's what I would use.

Another option is to use a Groco Flanged Adapter with a Groco Ball Valve. This essentially allows you to make a seacock with a replaceable valve.

I know a better place to buy them than Defender, but forum rules prevent me from telling you.

Click to expand...

This is what I did.

With the newer model seacocks...if there's a problem...it's usually with the ball valve. With this option, I wouldn't have to go through the trouble or expense of a complete seacock replacement..

The price is a bit more but not too bad.

Have you considered the glass reinforced sea cocks and thru hulls by Forespar?

Less expensive, strong, U. L. approved and A.B.Y.C. accepted and no corrosion or electrolysis issues.

Just a thought.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Have you considered the glass reinforced sea cocks and thru hulls by Forespar?

Less expensive, strong, U. L. approved and A.B.Y.C. accepted and no corrosion or electrolysis issues.

Just a thought.

Click to expand...

From the ABYC Standards manual ....

ABYC and its committees do not "approve", "certify" or "endorse" any item, construction or propietary device.

Forespar's own website says they do not have UL approval and the UL logo does not appear on it's products.

Forsepar claims to meet or exceed ABYC and UL requirements but are not so certified.

boatpoker said:

From the ABYC Standards manual ....

ABYC and its committees do not "approve", "certify" or "endorse" any item, construction or propietary device.

Click to expand...

And they "are not intended to preclude attainment of desired results by other means."

Semantics aside, I would argue that they do tacitly by word-smithing their standards or using criteria of other standards to allow or disallow certain manufacturer's products.

Northern Spy said:

I would argue that they do tacitly by wordsmithing

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Not at all, they are quite specific in all 52 standards that they publish that they approve no specific product.

I'd suggest that it is Forespar that is wordsmithing by implying they are approved.

I also doubt that the smaller Marelon straight valves (1/2" & 3/4")would withstand the 500lb. static load test required by ABYC H-27.
I test seacocks by applying foot pressure and don't think I can manage 500lbs.
I don't do it with the smaller Marelon units because they bend so much it scares me.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Have you considered the glass reinforced sea cocks and thru hulls by Forespar?

Less expensive, strong, U. L. approved and A.B.Y.C. accepted and no corrosion or electrolysis issues.

Just a thought.

Click to expand...

Like in the movie the graduate--plastics young man- its the present and the future.

UL is a dinosaur.

Compliance engineers are fed up with UL. The other NRTLs, such as ETL, CSA and TUV are stealing their lunch money. Unfortunately it will take a generation to undo the UL association at a consumer level.

That is my issue with ABYC.

boatpoker said:

Not at all, they are quite specific in all 52 standards that they publish that they approve no specific product.

I'd suggest that it is Forespar that is wordsmithing by implying they are approved.

I also doubt that the smaller Marelon straight valves (1/2" & 3/4")would withstand the 500lb. static load test required by ABYC H-27.
I test seacocks by applying foot pressure and don't think I can manage 500lbs.
I don't do it with the smaller Marelon units because they bend so much it scares me.

Click to expand...

So how many pounds of force will a metal unit sustain after corrosion or electrolysis has its way? A few years ago an acquaintance went to close his metal seacock which he said looked fine and it just snapped in half.

Northern Spy said:

UL is a dinosaur.

Click to expand...

If that is what you think, why did you tout Forespar as having UL approval and ABYC acceptance (which they don't) ?

boatpoker said:

Not at all, they are quite specific in all 52 standards that they publish that they approve no specific product.

I'd suggest that it is Forespar that is wordsmithing by implying they are approved.

I also doubt that the smaller Marelon straight valves (1/2" & 3/4")would withstand the 500lb. static load test required by ABYC H-27.
I test seacocks by applying foot pressure and don't think I can manage 500lbs.
I don't do it with the smaller Marelon units because they bend so much it scares me.

Click to expand...

the actual seacock?...or just the tail-piece barb?...

The little 1/2 incher I put in one of our aluminum boats I'm pretty sure could have easily handles 500lbs...bt certainly not the tail-piece barb.

eyschulman said:

So how many pounds of force will a metal unit sustain after corrosion or electrolysis has its way? A few years ago an acquaintance went to close his metal seacock which he said looked fine and it just snapped in half.

Click to expand...

That is the issue with a construction standard when applied to in service equipment and repair.

boatpoker said:

If that is what you think, why did you tout Forespar as having UL approval and ABYC acceptance (which they don't) ?

Click to expand...

I didn't. Could care less if they do.

Hopcar-i know the source to which you refer, I believe it is in S Fla, has a dock behind the store, serves free Cuban coffee and is a TF sponsor!

eyschulman said:

So how many pounds of force will a metal unit sustain after corrosion or electrolysis has its way? A few years ago an acquaintance went to close his metal seacock which he said looked fine and it just snapped in half.

Click to expand...

Don't know what you mean by "metal". If it was one of those cheap brass things used on European boats or perhaps Chinese "bronze" ... maybe so. 50 year old proper bronze seacocks are still out there operating daily with no more than a little surface patina.

PS. "electrolysis" is a chemical change that occurs in an electrolyte when current is passed through it and has nothing to do with corrosion. I suppose you are referring to an electrolytic reaction which could be corrosion due to stray or galvanic current.

Northern Spy said:

I didn't. Could care less if they do.

Click to expand...

Sorry, you are right, it was Capt.Bill that did that.

I also second Groco, they make a quality product.
http://www.hopkins-carter.com/grfuflbasefb1.html

psneeld said:

the actual seacock?...or just the tail-piece barb?...

The little 1/2 incher I put in one of our aluminum boats I'm pretty sure could have easily handles 500lbs...bt certainly not the tail-piece barb.

Click to expand...

ABYC tests with the tail piece fitted. I have attached the drawing from their manual.

I have had good results with Buck Algonquin bronze products. Deep Blue Yacht Supply in Ft. Lauderdale is an excellent source for all things below the water line, good service if you have questions too. Great source for the highest quality Zincs, BTW.

Boat Props, Cutlass Bearings, Zinc Anodes, Prop Shaft Seals. Order your boat propeller today.

boatpoker said:

ABYC tests with the tail piece fitted. I have attached the drawing from their manual.

Click to expand...

In all fairness then...ABYC needs some bigger thinkers over there.

Most wire reinforced hoses will deteriorate to the point of not accepting a 500# side load long before either a bronze tail piece or seacock fails...and so will probably a hundred other things that will cause a boat to destroy itself.

What's their "maintenance requirements" if they are so hepped up on new construction materials? Oh yeah...fix it before you sink...great.

The tail piece only needs to be as strong as the hose...the whole point of the seacock is to secure the leak no matter where it develops in an emergency.

While I think ABYC has some good points ....sometimes the big picture gets lost.

psneeld said:

The tail piece only needs to be as strong as the hose...the whole point of the seacock is to secure the leak no matter where it develops in an emergency.

Click to expand...

True.

How many of you carry some of these?



Or if like me you have teenage sons along a couple of these?



Here's a hint, either of them can keep your boat above water if you lose a seacock when you need it the most. They can change your mayday broadcast into a pon pon or a call to the towing company at most.

Some real forward thinking types have been known to secure an appropriate sized tapered plug too the seacock it is meant to plug in an emergency.

I think you miss the point, the tail piece is the point of the most leverage on the whole fitting. It is the only logical place to test the integrity of the entire assembly.

You can debate leverage...but failure is what s or isn't important.

The "point" of a seacock assembly is to stop the water....and it will do that whether there's a tailpiece or not...like I posted...if the tailpiece is included...then the 500 pound test should include everything in the bilge that can break and leak then...

Missed the point? ...maybe not....

boatpoker said:

From the ABYC Standards manual ....

ABYC and its committees do not "approve", "certify" or "endorse" any item, construction or propietary device.

Forespar's own website says they do not have UL approval and the UL logo does not appear on it's products.

Forsepar claims to meet or exceed ABYC and UL requirements but are not so certified.

Click to expand...

The web site also says "Forespar’s “93” series of valve systems are U. L. approved and A.B.Y.C. accepted. They also meet and exceed all mechanical property requirements specified by the International Standards Organization and are ISO Certified."

It does not say they are A.B.Y.C. certified only ISO certified.

And I have used them in a number of boat over the last few decades with out any problems.

But as usual, YMMV.

boatpoker said:

If that is what you think, why did you tout Forespar as having UL approval and ABYC acceptance (which they don't) ?

Click to expand...

That was me. I was quoting this.

"Forespar’s “93” series of valve systems are U. L. approved and A.B.Y.C. accepted. They also meet and exceed all mechanical property requirements specified by the International Standards Organization and are ISO Certified."